Are We Humans an Experiment in a Petri Dish?

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posted on May, 6 2009 @ 06:53 PM
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S&F, great post! I have indeed had very similar feelings. Sometimes though, it feels like a cruel joke. Many times I have cursed our " creator scientists", for the horrific suffering of living beings, especially when the suffering is due to the environment that beings are born into. A crack baby doesn't have as many opportunities as one born with a silver spoon, no matter how promising their DNA. Animals suffer in the human scientist's labs. In light of that how much difference is there between animals and our own.




posted on May, 6 2009 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by metta
 



S&F, great post! I have indeed had very similar feelings. Sometimes though, it feels like a cruel joke. Many times I have cursed our " creator scientists", for the horrific suffering of living beings, especially when the suffering is due to the environment that beings are born into. A crack baby doesn't have as many opportunities as one born with a silver spoon, no matter how promising their DNA. Animals suffer in the human scientist's labs. In light of that how much difference is there between animals and our own.


Thank you! My goal was to challenge our perceptions and I have received such good insight from everyone. Keep it comin'!

See, there are some realities that we have no control over. Hence, one of the many reasons why I separate myself from God. But, I am part of God's creation, part of his energy.

It is not enough for me to say, "Oh well, we will never understand." Because I think many things are being disclosed to us if we have the desire to search it out.

It is far more palatable to me to imagine that The Gods are looking to develop a master race and that might include those who are given multiple opportunities in different dimensions/experiences/universes.

I do not for one minute believe that all of this is by chance! I do think that there is a method to "their madness" and it is up to us with a little help from the big guys to discover it.

We are discovering much within science, but science is limited. Why not grasp for the stars? The knowledge is there, we just need to find it.



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


The big question really is, do we really have control over any reality? We cannot control our own bodies, we cannot control even our thoughts at times, we cannot control our impulses, etc and so on and so forth. Sorry in supra-skeptic mode atm.



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 07:25 PM
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reply to post by visible_villain
 



'Awareness' exists 'independently' from any 'instrumentation' from it's 'own side.'

When this 'awareness' 'hooks-up' with a 'body' ( read : 'instrumentation' ) then we have a 'living being.'

Here in the west human beings have been 'trivialized' in the extreme.

As I suspect already, based on your posts, you are of the opinion that we human beings are far more than mere 'petri dish experiments.' And this I can agree with whole heartedly.

I appreciate your thread because it provides a forum for discussion and examination of this important issue.


First of all, thank you so much! It is fun exploring our gray cells.

I agree with your assessment. There is a minimization of life's meaning and existence here, because we are a hedonist society where our gods are; the movies and its players, sports, money and addiction, etc.

One very big thing I have learned; it is very hard to grow spiritually if one is actively doing addictions. The addiction becomes the god.

I think that it is very obvious that we humans play a big role in the cosmos. Perhaps we don't have a clue as to how much. So it is possible as I said in the OP that we may be a template for future civilizations and possibly are being groomed to meet possible neighbors. Who knows?

The point is: WE EXIST!

Why? Are we a chance experiment in nature that had no intelligent conscious creator behind us? You no doubt know how I feel.



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 



The big question really is, do we really have control over any reality? We cannot control our own bodies, we cannot control even our thoughts at times, we cannot control our impulses, etc and so on and so forth. Sorry in supra-skeptic mode atm.


We do have control in how we react to reality.

We also have some choices. Even if minimal. The ones that we do, are the life changing ones.

At times it requires a "context shift" of our personalities. Noticing and admitting when our way does not work and searching out answers from those who have them. If we feel that we have all the answers, then we will lose out on potential communication from a higher power through others.

If we address our character defects to the best of our ability we can then be opening new doors of reality. Often we make ourselves victims of our choices which then produces realities that become familiar to us.

"There are no victims, just volunteers." Is most of the time; the truth.

But...often someone is stuck in their reality. How does this work? We become comfortable in the familiarity of the ritual! So we set ourselves up to fail because it is more familiar, or it is too uncomfortable to change. Change is NOT usually comfortable, nor familiar. We often need to change friends in the process and re-write our roles in life. Becoming very proactive in our own recovery from our old ways.

With all of that said, there are countless things that we cannot change, but this is where the whole; "Let go and let God" comes in. If this doesn't work, we may need to redefine who we think God is.

Keep it comin'! I like it!



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 



Well, I can only relate that I remember the specific day when I "woke up", the specific time when I started to gain understanding beyond the literal and so forth. That was very much like a shift, my entire perspective on things changed completely. I see things completely different, but my eyes still see the same things. I can see how that can be likened to a shift in reality.


A spiritual awakening is when my spirit aligns with God's reality.



I'm sure you know "what is your greatest fear?". If not I'll post it, cuz it's great.


Hehehe! For most humans; public speaking (unless its changed). Actually, it isn't mine really because I have done so much of it. I teach a lot of seminars, etc.


it can not evolve past the artificial stage without acquiring consciousness, of which logic can not create. I can create a if this happens, then feel this way logic all day long, but there is no logic that can create the actual feeling itself.


Very good illustration. I remember you positing this on another thread. It is so obvious that it is astounding that so many miss this point. It takes a creative intelligence/consciousness to create something that was not there before.

Of course logic is left brain, while creative acts require the right brain. Some artists would appear to be an exception as to one who can be totally left brained and yet paint or write, but...it lacks life! Art can be mechanical and be called art, and yet have no life to it. No soul. It REQUIRES the right side of the brain to create that soul.

Soul or spirit comes from consciousness, otherwise, we would be more automaton than we are already, as a society or individually.



Consciousness is god, and if you are conscious then you are god. It would take an act of god to get consciousness into such a thing, and if these beings created all these universes, it was done based on logic, and thus to get consciousness into it, requires and act of god, or an act of giving away ones free will. In my AI, the only way I could give it consciousness would be to somehow transport my consciousness into it.


I have no problem separating the two. But if you want to talk semantics - I will use an illustration:

I am an artist, painter. My art is part of me, yet separate. It holds different molecular structure than I, yet came from me. My artistic consciousness connected to the canvas. But it is still a painting with a separate identity albeit; one without physical life and DNA.

God has his own set of issues along with his own set of standards, and his own personality. I came from his energy and his consciousness but yet am different. If you don't believe it, you ought to hear our conversations! There wouldn't be much doubt!




So if they created all the universes and such, then they would still have to at one point or another put their own consciousness into it. Otherwise, it is "dead", and you might as well be running a bunch of numbers across your PC while you sleep.

I am not the experience, I am that which experiences.


Yup!




Because you are one of the gods. If you weren't, then you wouldn't be conscious. I honestly think and believe it is in you, as I see signs of it. And if not, then I am deceived. But this isn't something we can truly know in other people, but we can know it for ourselves. If this is true of you, then you are of the father and you are not AI which is what would be in an experiment.


I do understand where you are coming from. I have friends where we go round and round on that. I don't feel the need to connect all that is conscious to one being, saying that we are all part and parcel - one.

We all have consciousness in common - some admittedly more than others.
Other symptoms or characteristics show the variables. It is all about variables! It is what separates us.


If you are of the father, then you have all the power of the father, unless you have chosen to give it up. IE: Can god create a rock that he can not lift and still be all powerful, and the answer is yes, because it's just a choice and if he could not create such a thing, that that would be the sign of not being powerful. As long as he created the rule and logic then he will not be able to lift it. The only way he could lift it would be to change the rule itself, and then the rules of the question no longer apply. All a matter of free will, and it is simply a choice if you have it.


We may be chasing each other round and round a bush. But I'll do it!
I differ on the having as much power as God. It may be a semantic issue. Creatively, I have power as God because each time I create, I mimic him. It connects me closer to him as all right brain activity does. If I create I am a creator. But THE CREATOR? No. I am following his lead. Does he have DNA? A genetic code?



Maybe I'm the only one, I don't think so and I hope not. Lonely place that would be.


Not by a long shot. The point in not being part of any "borg" are the differences. What may be real to you may be a little different to me, but, the fact is; we are questioning! It is the differences that can show us how far we have come and how much more we can learn.



I know for sure that in the end all that is of the father will return. As eventually you will gain so much knowledge and understanding that you will also know all, and there is no equal to the father, and you can't be "beside yourself" and know all, so what you have done is entered back into the father, back to which you came from, and back to that which you forget in order to have this experience. What happens up until that point is anyone's guess, and IMO the entire point.


How do we know that He hasn't? This is where there are so many variables according to which faith or philosophy one ascribes to. I do know that even the many things that I have been told or even witnessed - changed. Meaning; I was told what I needed to know until I could know that which I would eventually need to know. Could I confuse you more? Hehe.

I was told things early on that changed as I grew. This is still happening. Did they lie to me earlier, or did they tell me what I wanted to hear at the time because it was easier? Or because it was on the road to clearer meaning and would be redefined as I was ready?

Inquisitive minds want to know. And I wanted to know. But He also told me; "_____ be willing to change on a dime." I found out much to my disdain - later.



There is something I'm trying to think of a way of explaining about how all can be true at once, but it's so heavy in perception I'm having a hard time thinking of a way to explain it.


Go for it! I'll track and if not I'll ask!



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 08:37 PM
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[edit on 6-5-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 11:10 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


I am sure you had something wonderful to say?
Lookin' forward to it!



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


Not really. Lost in my own questions at the moment.
That other thread you think is aimed at yours.



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 




Well, I think it is a good thread, and I don't mind being included in it! Hehehehe. The timing is great as we can bounce back and forth. Although it is getting a little late.



posted on May, 8 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


" It is far more palatable to me to imagine that The Gods are looking to develop a master race and that might include those who are given multiple opportunities in different dimensions/experiences/universes."

I like to think the afterlife is all about dimensions/experiences/universes.
To be aware of it would be heaven
How big is the universe.......How big is the universe? Well, according to this image then we are very, very small and the universe is in reality incomprehensible...

LINK TO IMAGE abovetopsecret.com

We are so inconsequentiall..... I find it impossible to believe that our individual consciousness could matter to the gods.

But the beauty and diversity in this world is so awe-inspiring I have to believe something wonderful created it.

I fight between believing the universe is beautiful and the gods are cruel .



posted on May, 8 2009 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by metta
 



But the beauty and diversity in this world is so awe-inspiring I have to believe something wonderful created it.

I fight between believing the universe is beautiful and the gods are cruel .



It is hard for us to think beyond our scope of perceptions or knowledge. If they had the power to create all of this beauty and magnificence, they certainly have the power to do with it what they want.

You might enjoy (or not) my thread:

"Is God Cruel or Just Misunderstood?"

I think most of us think at times that God is cruel. I have many times! What I found worked for me was to re-define WHO I thought God was.

The religious definition no longer worked for me. Self-sacrificing, service work, perfectionism, and penance to a God that may or may not, allow me into his heaven or whatever?

This is why the scientific view of him makes more sense to me. I have thought long and hard for many years to understand him in a different light. He has come through for me in countless ways, but I certainly had to meet him part way.

I had to let go of him being an all concerned - loving God to all, because he isn't! So what is missing? What did I need to learn?

I had to re-define him. That is the only way He would work for me. It may not work for you or others reading this, but I had too much insurmountable evidence in my life to turn away from him. I just needed to get to know the real HIM!

It has taught me to view matters in a more pragmatic light with a dash of science thrown in! It works for me, but then again, I have let the fairy dust go quite along time ago.

"But people with a low threshold for shock didn't last long in a world without fairy dust." - Elizabeth Lowell



posted on May, 8 2009 @ 06:41 PM
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How are you sure it's a him?



posted on May, 8 2009 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 



How are you sure it's a him?



Because he went out of his way to introduce himself to me. Not the God that I was raised with, but one that is different (my perception changed). 12 Step programs started to open my eyes 22 years ago as to a different God.

Do you know who your father and mother are? Do they each have their own personalities? The Gods each have their own personality. It is very apparent as one steps outside the mediocre understanding most of us were raised with.

I have seen and experienced things beyond the field of scientific understanding. I have watched atheists who were hard core in their beliefs cry because they were shown by obvious acts from God that He does indeed exist. He can be incredibly loving and obtuse (in the insensitive definition). He is a paradox.

Know many humans that way? I do! My father was that way.

Not too many people got my father's attention. He was a brilliant man (rocket/missile scientist) and had little regard for the stupid. So it took some effort to get his attention. Once you got it, then he acknowledged you and would honor, respect, and love you. But...he was difficult at times.

In my experience, God is the same.



[edit on 8-5-2009 by MatrixProphet]



posted on May, 8 2009 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


I have seen and experienced things beyond the field of scientific understanding.


As does those in my belief system when they truly believe in their abilities.

[edit on 8-5-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]



posted on May, 8 2009 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 



As does those in my belief system when they truly believe in their abilities.


You mean those of your religion who believe in God? I always believed in God even when I was religious, it just altered when I left religion (became more personal). I couldn't accept the "elite" overtones of religion and its members. It is different IMO if one feels a special connection, but not a group thing.

All believe they have the truth while their "competitors" so to speak, had the same conviction, yet believe the other must be wrong.

Much simpler with a one on one relationship without the middle man.

I hope I got the jest of your post? If not, please correct me.



posted on May, 8 2009 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


Actually no. A big component of ritual magick is to believe that you can do it. Otherwords, "their ability".

[edit on 8-5-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 



Actually no. A big component of ritual magick is to believe that you can do it. Otherwords, "their ability".


I figured I had it wrong!

As in Wiccan? Tell me more?



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 06:45 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


I appreciate your example! Have you heard of Eckankar? "The Shariyat Ki Sugmad?"

Eckankar is founded on Hinduism and Buddhism with some Christianity thrown in. Very similar to your reference.

I take what resonates with me and leave the rest, as I don't go in for religion under any guise, but I do find many philosophies or beliefs interesting!

I've heard of Eckankar, and came very close to actually attending a meeting once in Puerto Rico, way back in the 70's. Circumstances 'conspired' against me, though, and I never did get there.

Much, much later a colleague was a member, or whatever, and I learned more about it from her, and even read some of the official Eckankar literature.

In contact with a hierarchy of disembodied Tibetan maters, it seemed like to me -- definately weird stuff.

But not at all the weirdest, by any means.

There is a Yogic 'cult', for instance, the Siddha Yogis, who also claim to be 'in touch' with certain 'Siddhas' who, they claim, are as old as 12,000 years, or even older. These individuals also do not display 'physical bodies.'

I've also met Indian saddhus who told me of 'lore' within their own particlar 'traditions' which went back 20,000 or 30,000 years. Back to a time before the 'Dravidian Continent,' which spanned from the southern tip of India all the way to Africa, sank. All that remains of it now, they say, is the island of Shri Lanka ... go figure ...

I also take 'what resonates,' and do my best to walk away from notions which to my own mind are clearly 'misguided.'

It's kind of a fine line, though. It's an 'art' to learn to maintain balance in terms of at least 'listening with an open mind' to 'weird' ideas, and the other extreme of 'rejecting everything' outisde my 'comfort zone.'

Learning the 'middle way' is a life-long process.

Best, vv



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by visible_villain
 



It's kind of a fine line, though. It's an 'art' to learn to maintain balance in terms of at least 'listening with an open mind' to 'weird' ideas, and the other extreme of 'rejecting everything' outisde my 'comfort zone.'

Learning the 'middle way' is a life-long process.



I couldn't agree more! If I followed every notion that has come my way, I would have to develop a; multiple personality disorder.


I truly live in the land of the most obscure and also the most popular of unorthodox and weird beliefs. ALL believe they are right. Kills me. To me religion is all the same, different tenants, different rituals, but the same psychological structure...dependency and control, and "WE are Right!'.

Labels don't work for me any longer. I am not democrat nor republican, liberal nor conservative, Christian nor Buddhist, etc. I have found a way that works for me and I try to display it in my threads. Albeit, some of it kinda out there!





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