The Growing Discontent

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
Freedom is what this country is founded on and many here hope to preserve. A movement is afoot and it includes conservatives, liberals, libertarians, black, white, gay and straight. Many will stand to fight the common enemy.

Just for clarification sake. Who exactly is the common enemy and how do we identify them so that we don't kill someone that may be innocent and just standing around wondering what all the rukus is about?

Originally posted by alphabetaone

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
reply to post by tsloan

 

30 million people, 40million guns. Us govt. 500k. Kinda bad odds don'tcha think?

respectfully

reluctantpawn

100 people with pea-shooters and a few 30-30's and .308's mixed in, versus two guys, one with a SAW, the other with a mini-gun (military issued of course).


Respectfully, I doubt highly the odds are stacked in the REI outfitted weekend warriors favor much.


AB1

A nations army, navy, marine and air force, not to mention the CIA and other intelligence agencies. Helicopters, fighter jets and B1 bombers. Top of the line, technologically advanced weaponry all the way from personal weapons through napalm canisters and thousand pound bombs.

All this vastly superior firepower and who wins?

Barefoot soldiers carrying fifty year old semi-automatic carbines, one pocket full of ammunition and the other full of rice.

The assumptions you make show an absolute ignorance of the past for the example above is just one of thousands throughout written history.

Another assumption you make is that the military will be an enemy of the people. Apparently you have no contact with soldiers or marines because if you did, you would know how ridiculous that assumption is.

I could not disagree with you more. Not only are the armed citizens of this country a formidable force, it is the only thing on this earth our government is truly afraid of. The founding fathers knew exactly what they were doing when they wrote the second amendment and it's as important today as it was in the 1700's, maybe more so.

The bigger dogs lost the war in the example above for many reasons. The two most deciding factors in my opinion was that for one, the enemy had the support of the people and we did not. Secondly, it was run from Washington by incompetent politicians. Both of those factors would apply to this conflict to an even greater degree than forty years ago.

reply to post by reluctantpawn


I can not agree more with your words. That is the ideology I am looking for in a movement. Specifically, the "rising up from the ashes, better than before" part. We cannot simply settle for that which we have attained, we must look towards the goals of the future and the betterment of society as a whole.

Originally posted by whaaa

Just for clarification sake. Who exactly is the common enemy and how do we identify them so that we don't kill someone that may be innocent and just standing around wondering what all the rukus is about?

This, I believe will be the hardest part. Most of the enemies have made themselves known to us already. The most important step is intelligence, and knowing who the true enemies are inside and out before any action be taken.

This is no more truer than in any other battle, yet in one like this, it will be the most difficult part to find where allegiances lie.

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
Freedom is what this country is founded on and many here hope to preserve. A movement is afoot and it includes conservatives, liberals, libertarians, black, white, gay and straight. Many will stand to fight the common enemy.

Just for clarification sake. Who exactly is the common enemy and how do we identify them so that we don't kill someone that may be innocent and just standing around wondering what all the rukus is about?

The common enemy is an oppressive medalsome government,that would see our childrens children placed in the chains of national debt servititude.
The common enemy are those who would seek to usurp our soveriegn rights,to live as we see fit.
The common enemy are those that create divison among people by creating a class falicy.Promote some while oppressing others yet both should be considered by merit alone.
These are the common enemies of the citizens of this country!

Originally posted by gwydionblack
I can not agree more with your words. That is the ideology I am looking for in a movement. Specifically, the "rising up from the ashes, better than before" part. We cannot simply settle for that which we have attained, we must look towards the goals of the future and the betterment of society as a whole.

Originally posted by whaaa

Just for clarification sake. Who exactly is the common enemy and how do we identify them so that we don't kill someone that may be innocent and just standing around wondering what all the rukus is about?

This, I believe will be the hardest part. Most of the enemies have made themselves known to us already. The most important step is intelligence, and knowing who the true enemies are inside and out before any action be taken.

This is no more truer than in any other battle, yet in one like this, it will be the most difficult part to find where allegiances lie.

I know.... we can torture people until they tell us the truth. Then go after the people they ratted out until all the enemies have been vanquished.

And if the enemies have made themselves known....refresh my memory; who are they again? If they are politicians...the mayor of my village is actually a pretty nice guy. I hope we don't have to kill him.

You know in this thread I hear a lot of high handed rhetoric but nothing I can really use in a concrete way to facilitate this uprising. Who is going to lead us and why should we trust him/her and believe they have the intelligence and answers that will lead us to real freedom. Is there anyone in this thread that will take up the mantle and lead us. And why should we trust you?

[edit on 4-5-2009 by whaaa]

Originally posted by daddyroo45
The common enemy is oppressive government that would see our childrens children placed in chains.
The common enemy are those who usurp our soveriegn rights. Our natural right to live as we see fit.
The common enemy are those that create divison among people.
These are the common enemies of the citizens of this country!

I took your quote, edited it to broaden and simplify the message.

Damn it's a sexy beast.

Originally posted by cbianchi513

Originally posted by daddyroo45
The common enemy is oppressive government that would see our childrens children placed in chains.
The common enemy are those who usurp our soveriegn rights. Our natural right to live as we see fit.
The common enemy are those that create divison among people.
These are the common enemies of the citizens of this country!

I took your quote, edited it to broaden and simplify the message.

Damn it's a sexy beast.

I appreciate what you have tried to do. I just feel the meat of the message may have suffered in translation.

reply to post by daddyroo45


I thought you might feel this way. I wanted to show you how I read it in my head. I truly thought it was a great sentiment the way you put it.

There was a post earlier about speaking in our words, not our forefathers. Speaking plainly for the masses...

Nonetheless, I think it's clear to many if not all who the common enemy is.

We most likely want our own version of the same thing. To live our lives in peace with our families. We want to work hard, and see the fruits of our labor. We want more opportunity for our children.

I believe in something I imagine Jefferson would have preferred. A near Anarchy governed by the "golden rule". Not lawless, but nowhere near central government.

To me, any opposition to my values earn the label "enemy"... The only differentiation is to what level the label progresses. Some you can learn to agree with on points. There is no shame in diplomacy.

I am, after all, only human.


[edit on 4/5/09 by cbianchi513]

As I read these post, my heart and soul bleed for my nation; the short sighted bickering over the non-consequential, the petulant wining of the continued false Republican/Democrat false paradigm; the continued bickering over whose at fault for the chains that all soon will wear are the arguments of fools ignoring our national date with a collective destiny.

Try as one might, you cannot convince a partisan ideologue of the limitations of their narrow vision; sarcasm and scoffing the last defense of fools thoroughly convinced of the superiority of the cause their masters have spoon fed them, being totally blind to the fact that they are already slaves; as it is written: “Never answer a fool in his folly”; a point well taken.

Long ago I held a young black man – my brother – as he bled the last of his blood on ground far from his home; asking “why”, I cried as if he was my flesh and blood. Then I realized he was, though my skin was white, we were brothers as he had died keeping the faith. I swore never to forget him, never to forget his sacrifice defending me; his last request not to leave him has never been forgotten and never will.

We lived, cried, fought and bled together as Americans; we kept the oath to our nation; most importantly to each other – no man left behind – dead or alive, all go home. That we would never surrender while we had the means to resist, that we – as countless numbers before us – would stand our ground and fight together as free men defending the weak and defenseless, defending the cause of liberty and freedom for the generations yet to come; maintaining the peace that all American men and women might breath free.

What then now? Should concerns over “bloviating” still the poignant words of one who knows the end of the course that we now follow? On the other hand, perhaps I should have another cup of coffee, pack up and go fishing when all my active and inactive military friends call out in alarm and prepare for what is for certain to happen soon? With lighthearted abandon, forgetting the pledge of blood made so long ago?

I care not what others may do; I care not if all else kneel as slaves for I will not kneel nor will I surrender what so many have bled to safeguard. I will plead, reason and struggle for a peaceful return of our government to its constitutional boundaries and if all else fails I will fight; with my last breath I too will keep the faith.

reply to post by SGTChas

i have been reading this post and a few things come to mind , being as i`m from up North of the 49` th . i find it interesting that there are only 2 parties in your land -expression the better of 2 evils which do you choose - none of the above.
reasoning that Freddie Mack and all of his compardres bankrupted their huge corporations all on their own then they had the adocity to come to the government with their hats in had looking for public tax dollars to bail themselves out ops their companies went under did` t they ,oh that's right their contracts said that they were entitled to huge bonuses ,and they sure as hell got their payed bonuses out of your pockets.the car giants are falling for the same reason corporate greed and who is stuck bailing them out ,the TAX PAYER. all these years of huge profit ,all these years of getting GOVERNMENTAL HANDOUTS to refit and retool out of the tax payers pocket and none of these corporations learned what our parents taught us work hard save your money and put some away for a rainy day.
all of these overpayed exec`s making millions a year for what ,putting their companies out of business then trying to blame the little guy not themselves, who needs millions to live on a year i guess it is only the little tyrants who consider themselves to be gods as the rest of us are living on 20,000.00 to 65,000.00 per year.
so why is it that we the people of the world continue to get stuck with their bills ,ask your politicians who are in their back pocket or who own shares in their companies it really has nothing to do with- we the people- as we are the ones losing our jobs not those who are at fault and to be blamed ,those great heads of state in their ivory towers who make all the rules none of which apply to themselves.
if this keeps up a revolution world wide might be the only option except for 1 little problem they would love to see us do it that way they could bring down military rule and law and believe me the armed forces of your nation would be turned against your own people by them,think of KENT STATE as a proving ground of just what the man would do and can do to you the people and you have no say in the matter.because he is god in his useless little mind and you the people are his servants . to be used and abused as he pleases all on their word .GAG.

As for ‘when’ this Revolution will start, look around you as it has already begun. We have approached and exceeded all the events from our last Revolution up to The Lexington Green shot heard around the world; this too approaches, as soon there will be wide scale attempts at disarming the American people. In other words, fear not as you will either soon fight or beg for FEMA food as you surrender your weapons.

This IS the plan – he who controls the food has control. Exactly why do you think this new farming act and soon to follow nutritional supplement acts were passed? Control is the key. The same reason a new black flag op will take place; “turn in your weapons and report to the FEMA ‘relief’ centers, you will be fed and protected.” The armed services have been preparing for this for some time and bits and pieces of the plans for the coming food riots and ‘civil unrest’ have been leaked but largely ignored.

Yeah yeah yeah... tell me all about it... how you big macho right wing men are sick of those liberals and Democrats screwing up our country.... gonna start an armed Milita etc. YAWN!!!

Yeah you guys spouted the same ole malarky when Clinton was in...

just a bunch of disgruntled arm chair warriors playing big men.

If you haven't read the recent polls you guys are in the minority and most people are sick of the posturing.

Grow up and get a life.

Think not that I disparage the exchanges of the numerous Patriots who discuss the fine points of what approaches, no, I merely am saddened and stupefied at the belligerent and bombastic trolling of the few that seem so blind to what should be obvious to all, let alone to members of ATS. The droll wit of some of the sarcastic post foretells how many will end up cannon fodder; it is for this reason my heart is heavy.

The enlightened exchange of information and to let others know they are not alone is the very reason I authored this thread; please continue the discussion…

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
Freedom is what this country is founded on and many here hope to preserve. A movement is afoot and it includes conservatives, liberals, libertarians, black, white, gay and straight. Many will stand to fight the common enemy.

Just for clarification sake. Who exactly is the common enemy and how do we identify them so that we don't kill someone that may be innocent and just standing around wondering what all the rukus is about?

Anyone who got us into the situation we are currently in. That includes:

Bankers
Politicians
Corrupt cops
Globalists
Intelligence Agencies
Fraudsters (Madoff et al)
Neocon Hawks
Shareholders of Big Corporations (tm)
etc.

Unfortunately it also includes:

People who borrowed more than they could feasibly pay back (anyone carrying a massive credit card balance)
People who cheered the neocon hawks on into an unwinnable fraudulent and costly war (80% of the country)
People who waste resources like there is an infinite supply of fossil fuels
Shareholders of big corporations (grannies with IRAs)
Complacent voters who allowed jobs to disappear overseas throughout the 80's and 90's
etc.

In other words, if we are to look around and point the finger at those who got us to where we are today, I suggest everyone start by taking a look in the mirror and asking yourself honestly what your part in this was?

Did you cheer on the invasion of iraq?
Did you cash your Bush-bux checks?
Did you spend your Obama-bux last month?
Do you carry the average $9000 in credit debt?
Did you write letters to your representatives when jobs were flowing overseas like a firehose? Did you even protest?
Are you sure your stocks are clean and guilt free?

I think if you all truly considered your part in all this, you probably wouldn't be so quick to be loading up your magazines and polishing your guns with gleeful anticipation.

reply to post by SGTChas


So true, my friend. It is disturbing how 'We The People' has become: We the Liberals; We the Conservatives; We the Democrats; We the Republicans; We the African-Americans; We the Mexican-Americans; We the Haves; We the Have Nots; We the Providers; We the Takers; etc.

I apologize for my redundancy, but I feel it is important. The elitists have driven wedges between us, to attempt to reduce the likelihood of any, real, threat to themselves and their control. This is, painfully, obvious in some of the threads on ATS. Some people have so much anger for everyone who offers an opposing view, to their own.

reply to post by WTFover


Wait until some catastrophic catalyst creates chaos. Then you can add "the hungry," "the unarmed," "the pitiful," "the pacifists," and "the dead."

Just like the song. A country boy can survive.

Originally posted by WTFover
The elitists have driven wedges between us, to attempt to reduce the likelihood of any, real, threat to themselves and their control. This is, painfully, obvious in some of the threads on ATS. Some people have so much anger for everyone who offers an opposing view, to their own.

Did the elite actually drive the wedges to divide us or is it possible that people naturally want to feel superior and look down on others different than themselves. A contemporary form of tribalism. Look in this very thread at the way the militarists think of people that weren't in the military. The bikers, the Christians, the IT geeks. Granted that the power structure capitalizes on our divisions; but we did it to ourselves. When society feels pressure from outside the "tribes" become much more apparent.

There will be no concerted attack on the power structure. There will however be civil war, anarchy, chaos and blood in the streets. Want to see the future of America? Look at what happened in Yugoslavia a few years back, at one time a peaceful, beautiful, progressive country that at one time hosted the Olympic games and fell into civil war. Or Africa now.....

May God have mercy on our souls







[edit on 4-5-2009 by whaaa]

Just...wow! What, exactly, does anyone here think will be accomplished by picking up guns and marching on the Capitol? Seriously? I know most in this thread seem to think that elections are a joke, but in response to that I would say get your butt to the next election and at least try to make a difference. That's what I did, that's what I talked my "friends who never voted" into doing, because we wanted to shake things up. Looks like it worked.

We won that round. Time will tell if we changed things for the better or for the worse. All I can say is, I put up with a decade or more of bad leadership, and did what I thought was right when my time came to pull the lever on the next four years. Mid-terms are in 2010. If you have a problem with the way things are, start now, if you haven't already...organize and make the change you want. The system still works to some degree. Make it work for you.

I've heard enough blood and guts revolution stories from my dad, enough to put me off that method of doing things for life. According to his stories, he was lucky to make it out with his life somewhat intact. That's what you get when you start shooting at the army of the land. Most of the family he left behind were killed before his eyes, or executed as insurgents afterwards. Not to mention all of the pictures he showed me of dead Russian soldiers. Bunch of kids, really...kids with guns and tanks, with their heads filled with visions of glory. Sure, they were the "Iron Fist" of the oppressor...still, a bunch of dead kids at the end of it all. Hell, the ones they found alive and interrogated didn't even know where they were! Is that really what anyone wants? Dead kids? Because, inevitably, that will be the result. It always is. All I'm saying is, find a better way. Its got to be out there...Now bring the flames on my "hippy-peacenick" ass...Andy

Oh yeah...almost forgot. This would be a better discussion (in my humble opinion) if certain members would leave the pretentious aerobatics of the linguistic arts behind themselves. In other words, say what you gotta say, and don't try to come off like you're Thomas Paine or something. It would really expedite the proceedings. Sarcasm off...Andy

reply to post by drumist69


Wassa matter?

Can't keep up?