The Growing Discontent

Originally posted by daddyroo45

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by SGTChas

 

I don't fear the military.

I fear the first 30 days. I fear the destruction of our very delicate infrastructure, our power grid, our communications systems, our banking systems, our food suppliers and transporters, our fuel providers. The list goes on and on.

The crying shame is, it won't take much to destroy, intentionally or inadvertently, and a decade or more to reconstruct.

With a drastically reduced population.

I agree that the first thirty days will be destructive and bloody.However we all should take stock,hold our ground,keep a defensive posture. The cities will be the flash points,it will take a few days for the ripple effect to hit the countryside.
Know your neighbors and know their capabilities,get together and defend your tails off.

While I agree with your assessment of the risks (principal among them are water, food and energy) - with some patience and reserve these may survive.

The worst enemies will come within your own ranks as Sarge pointed out - whether stupid, or planted.

However, bankers, CEO's, billionaires, bureaucrats, politicians, lobbyists, reporters, media moguls, judges, lawyers and financiers probably don't fight too well - so long as you remember who the guilty are - and keep everyone focused on it - there could be little to no bloodshed.

Negotiate with everyone who might stand in your path - something polite like the following.

"We have come to restore the constitution, and bring justice and democracy back to the people - of whom you are part. The robbers will be brought to fair justice. You will be treated with kindness and generosity if you chose to allow justice to be done. For the good of our great country, please stand down or join yourself with us, the people."

Originally posted by malcr
Let's play the numbers game here. If it is true that there is a substantial proportion of the population who is disillusioned with the current system then surely you can vote to change it. I'll refer to this group as the Tea Party (why not?). So if the Tea Party is a minority what gives them the right to dictate to the majority. The answer is none. No minority has the right to overrule a majority. Irrespective of which side you are on ...tough. However if the Tea Party is a majority then it must have at least 51% of the voters in support. So a rough guess (not knowing the demographics of the US population) would be around 100 million voters. If each voter donated $10 to the tea Party they would have a 1Billion dollar chest to fight elections. That is more than enough to run a campaign. However, you don't really need anywhere near that amount since 51% would vote for the tea Party candidiate even there was no publicity whatsoever.

So the numbers don't add up. A majority wanting change can implement change democratically with a minimal amount of money. I'm not sure what it costs to post a candidate but whatever it is add it up for just over half of the state votes (remember you only need to post candidates in the most likely areas to return a presidential majority!!). Can a US person do the math and work out how much it would actually cost per Tea Party supporter?

Once that is done then stop moaning and organise a democratic change. You have 4 years which should be plenty of time.

This reminds me of many new populaist parties in UK politics. They have all withered and died since there is a huge difference between a vocal noisy minority and voting majority.

Don't be naive - democracy and the whole electoral process is beyond repair, as is the monetary system, the financial systems, the corporate entity which is created as a person with no moral obligations, the supposedly independent government departments like FDA are bought out and corrupt, the media can legally lie and spread propaganda - what the hell USA are you looking at that you think some democratic vote will make an ounce of difference?

It needs to be torn down, everything wrong needs to be broken into tiny pieces, everything against the constitution needs to be repealed, the Fed needs to be set alight, corporations need to be dissolved - or the CEO needs to be accountable in an UNLIMITED way (not more PLC or LTD's!!), the judges need to be thrown out as corrupt, the electoral process needs to be revoked, all the criminals need to be hanged for treason, a thousand other things need to be done - the constitution needs to be amended to lock in all the gains to prevent this situation arising again.

What people can do IMMEDIATELY - is simply stop obeying laws that are corrupt and stupid, and stop supporting institutions that are vile and corrupt.

Simply stop paying, don't play by the rules - steal, lie and cheat from govt and corporations - and deny everything.

[edit on 4-5-2009 by Amagnon]

ahhh, sgtchas it has been awhile and from the looks of it you have been quite busy here on ats as have i been busy, but not on ats more with my lifes plans you should have said something about being in the nam i would have had a better understanding and a little more of a respect for your arguments against communism... but let me ask you did you choose to join and if so why and do you feel wat you did and had to do was truly honerable (not just in the eyes of world but also your creator and more importantly yourself)

now I just as you and many of the awakened do see that there are bad times ahead but what few seem to realize as i and you somewhat have that violence is in no way a justifiable answer to this great dilemma thats faces us all even the ones running the show(because if/when it comes down to it(which it shouldnt if the plans go.. well according to plan) i hope the people will fight to thedeath and give the corrupt powers nothing to control)violence will only beget violence and continue the cycle we have had to live with for millenia(exp. we fought the revolutionary war to free ourselves from hmmm... lets see fromtaxes, oppression of media,thought, and just life itself and wat did it give us ...the same type of douschebags that have fudged it up since the beginning.


With that said dont you see that any sort of armed revolution is exactly what they want. once we start shooting off our guns theyll either throw us in camps or drop bombs until we drop the guns. so where will you be wen this happens (hopefully you didnt get caught and you can covertly free thepeoples and this that and the other) RIGHTehh you can hope for this but who knows if you could actually pull it off. instead why not try and come to terms with the better way, an easier way, a virtually bloodless way...which can and will lead to prosperity and sovereignty across the world ... and all it would take is to throw aside the guns and see them never as an option for politics or to hold judgement over another man and simply understand. that wen the time comes the people will have the option to make a trully defensive stand against those that seek the destruction of the majority. all you need to do chas and anybody else reading is spread the word of peace and maybe help with research any way you can.. and help aid in keeping the people calm and understanding of the situation at hand...


JC


[edit on 4-5-2009 by consciencious observer]

[edit on 4-5-2009 by consciencious observer]

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[edit on 4-5-2009 by consciencious observer]

I have had an odd feeling for a year or so now. Impending doom is the feeling really. This feeling is there despite my life going great. I'm 27, just got married, buying my first house with in the next couple of weeks. Everything is great. Yet I feel like many others had said "waiting for the other shoe to drop".

I'm not sure what will happen, or why. I really think nothing will happen, but that isn't how I feel. It is hard to describe. Almost like anxiety. I might not be anxtious about anything, but I will feel anxiety from time to time. Perhaps it is because I read to much on this site, and other similar web sites.

Originally posted by SGTChas
reply to post by whaaa

 

Not wishful thinking as I have dinner on base quiet a lot and visit numerous other bases and forts. They will not fire on Americans defending their homes and rights - you will be surprised I'm afraid.

You are correct sir. Our son is a Marine and we've discussed this with him to find out the feelings of the men he serves with. They are all aware of what is going on and will not go against the American people. They know what they need to do in the event of illegal orders and are prepared to do so to defend us. As one of the "women" someone wondered about - we are here and working closely with our neighbors to get ready. I absolutely know nothing about combat and do not wish to have it get that far. But, I do know though that it is coming and will do what is necessary.

Thank Sarge,

Your thread convinced me to join ATS today. I have been doing research and reading hundreds of blogs and thousands of threads for the past six months in preparation for an upcoming book, but I didn't plan on joining or posting until at least late this summer. This is the only site I have joined, and it is because of the intelligent discourse, the toleration most everyone shows for differing opinions, and the research and fact finding that go into the best posts and responses that I joined here today.

That all said, I agree immensely with your original post, although I also have to agree that some of the language is a bit distracting. I too am a literary man, and I enjoy flexing that muscle from time to time, but this information is too important to give the critics any extra ammo. Obviously you are highly intelligent, militarily trained, and moral in your views and actions, and I commend you.

To the few replies that have tried to make this a party issue, much like the media coverage did to the tea parties, I am a staunch republican who voted for Obama, and I would do it again. I also voted for Bush Sr., Jr., and Jeb in Florida. Our current state of affairs has been brewing for decades, and it has nothing to do with race, immigration, or our symbolic leaders. Although we have "50 parties" to choose from, there are only two realistic, electable choices, and those choices continually let us down. I would have loved to vote for Ron Paul, but I remember how Ross Perot derailed an election with no real chance at winning, and I did not want to waste my vote in that way. Our country is truly at a crossroads, and I chose the lesser of two evils, regardless of party affiliations. I believe that the upcoming war/revolution/chaos or whatever ensues is inevitable, but Obama is buying us some much needed time. I take nothing away from Bush, because I admire his commitment and the way he stuck through his presidency in the face of falling popularity, high criticism, and criminal allegations.

Most of us are not as ready and willing as we should be if we are going to survive and help the cause in the near future. I personally need more time to prepare financially and emotionally. I have two very young boys, and I hope they can get a little bigger and stronger before they are in a survival situation. I am still collecting supplies and making plans. I am working intently at being "off-grid" by the end of this year. These preparations are good for my family, my community, the ecosystem, and the long term economy, even if the revolution, WWIII, Nubiru, or Jesus never come.

We can all prepare for the worst, pray for the best, exercise our constitutional rights, educate our friends and neighbors, and protect our environment without being a conspiracy theorist, militant, right-wing/left-wing nut, or living under any other label meant to marginalize or belittle our views. Live well; I wish everyone the best, and I am thrilled to be a part of the ATS community!

[edit on 4-5-2009 by getreadyalready]

also you say when tshtf our brothers in arms will put them down and no longer be held by their chains of despair i myself see this to be true and i do believe the government sees this hence why they are recruiting foreigners day in and day out to once again take care of the work that we wont

JC

[edit on 4-5-2009 by consciencious observer]

reply to post by TheBorg


You are so very right about us (as a species ) coming together as a whole.


Unfortunately the system in place can and will not support such ideas , but I do believe that certain modifications and understandings can help mold a greater system that raises standards for all and keeps positions of authority and power attainable to those that are willing to put in the sweat, tears, blood, or just plain old hard work that the job truly requires(the hard/right way), instead of being able to/or have daddy make a couple phone calls to seal the deal.( the easy/current way)



i do believe that most of the people have realized the better way they just don't know how to get there ...which is ok they need not worry about such things(only because there are those that choose to concern themselves with the heart of the problem and work diligently to save us all) as long as they stay on the positive side and live life to such guidelines


JC

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[edit on 4-5-2009 by consciencious observer]

reply to post by TXTriker


Star for you! It was the women that empowered our first great struggle for freedom, and I for one think there should be more vocal women like you. Keep the faith, thanks for adding credence (via your son) to what many of us know to be true.

I'm a bit biased because you are a Marine mom too...

God bless Texas, and our Republic!

As much as I would like to see a fair balance of our country. What planet did you guys drop off of. Dis-content....? Thats what you call it? How about modern slavery... You think this government is just gonna let people roll out and claim states independance from the central government...
Your crazy! period....I like the fact that there are "next of kin" waiting in arms.. But truth is were a slave in this country..Yea you can scoot around in your cars and r.v's and such but bottom line you will do what the United States government says you will do or you'll go to jail or die trying. There's going to be no up rising...no revolt...Yall honestly think the system that has camera's on every corner and sub-military local police agencies is just going to say here ya go take it back? No! The riots in L.A. weren't outta control..if they were they would have spread like wild fire and been every where. The police and government knew just what was happening and they let it happen. The only way any of you who wish uppon a star that the militia would take back our country. Well unless you have some crafty scheme to get into the White House and every Senators office and arrest every government official well your just day dreaming. Cause the minute any of the local militias pick up arms against the local law or federal law you will be deemed a terrorist and the media will enforce these brandings and if you think the U.S. government wouldnt turn the full power of it's military on domestic soil on your ass your crazy. They will wipe you off the face of the earth just to protect the Federal structure in this country. Don't get me wrong I wish it was different but the only way to change it is to teach our kids to not trust the government and educate them send them to college and infultrate the government with our children to change the government from within for the better of the people. Thats the only change that will work.

reply to post by cbianchi513


Thanks. As you can see from my points I rarely post. There is usually someone that posts my thoughts and I don't find it necessary to post just to "hear myself". I do read a lot though and this site is great for helping me keep up with everything.

Thanks to all of you who do post for those of us who read!

reply to post by tsloan


30 million people, 40million guns. Us govt. 500k. Kinda bad odds don'tcha think?

respectfully

reluctantpawn

Originally posted by expat2368
Everything everyone has said is duly noted and recorded. "THEY" know who you are, where you are and when the time comes will round you up and it will all be over with. RIP America, for she is dead already.

Giving in to a fear of "THEM" supplies them with a victory for which THEY have not put in any effort. It's like rolling over and asking for your belly to be rubbed, and getting the bayonet instead. I. for one, intend to make them WORK for that victory 'when the time comes'.

It may be so that they put me down like a rabid dog, but I bet that I don't make it easy, or bloodless, for them. While "THEY" get a full course meal, I bet I get at least a sandwich.

Always keep in mind that you can never defeat a free man, you can only kill him.

nenothtu out

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
reply to post by tsloan

 

30 million people, 40million guns. Us govt. 500k. Kinda bad odds don'tcha think?

respectfully

reluctantpawn

100 people with pea-shooters and a few 30-30's and .308's mixed in, versus two guys, one with a SAW, the other with a mini-gun (military issued of course).


Respectfully, I doubt highly the odds are stacked in the REI outfitted weekend warriors favor much.


AB1

[edit on 4-5-2009 by alphabetaone]

reply to post by nenothtu




hey chu guy why not use your abilities to help prevent the worst from happening instead of just preparing for it. dont you think this will be far more productive for all



NOTE: i say this not only to this guy but to all that give a d@mn

You know, the growing discontent now, versus the growing discontent some 200 years ago is vastly different.

The Revolution that we have all come to know and love was, for all intents and purposes, on level playing field. While the numbers of the military outweighed the number of revolutionaries, the armament of the conflict was mostly identical.

If anyone wanted to revolt today, their only hope of doing so would be with their minds, not their arms.

In today's world, you (as We the People) don't take up arms against the Government; you will lose. You don't fight the Government, you will lose. You make the Government fight itself.

With that accomplished, the only thing to prepare for is who and how to restructure it in an equitable way.



AB1

[edit on 4-5-2009 by alphabetaone]

yesss let them play their games but dont allow for the imprisonment of the masses so one day we can take back wat is rightfully ours to begin with

reply to post by alphabetaone


Couple that with guerrilla tactics, home field advantage, supply chain disruption, chain of command, support of the people, inability to use weapons of mass destruction[due to collateral damage], troop failure due to desertion, and a myriad other tactical advantages that the people would have, and you have bad odds for the government. They know this, and it is why they must remove firearms for the populace from the equation.

Why can't they find Bin Laden? Why can't the stop the Iraqi insurgents? Why aren't we doing anything in Afghanistan? These people are poorly educated, poorly funded, and poorly fed, not to mention few in number. Until TPTB can defeat them they cannot defeat the citizens of the USA. [no disrespect intended to our boys and girls over there now, they are doing what they can with what they've got.]

respectfully

reluctantpawn

A lot of misconceptions about automatic weapons. The Germans had tons of automatic weapons, within emplacements, with plenty of ammo, with carefully staged fields of fire, and Normandy beach was still taken. By individuals, and small teams of determined men.

I'm not a big fan of full-auto weapons because generally, you can't hit **** with them. Oh, they make a lot of noise, and they're a lot of fun, and in the initial moments of an ambush, they can force some heads down, but it's a generally a waste of ammo.

Semiautomatic fire is accurate.

I don't care if the guy has a SAW or a minigun. It only takes one well-placed shot to take him out. Dead is dead.

And that assumes that these "Government" people are not going to be looking our first for their own.

Throughout history, there are hundreds of examples of small dedicated bands who have defeated large, powerful militaries.

Numbers don't mean one cotton-picking thing.

Never have.

But if one is hung up on numbers, I don't think you're considering all the combat experienced vets who are now civilians. Some of the SOB's I know will not lay down for anyone, and have learned more "tricks of the trade" that would enable them some fantastic kill ratios.

After all, no one would have to order them when to stay or when to go. They'd have that all figured out for themselves.



[edit on 4-5-2009 by dooper]

Originally posted by alphabetaone

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
reply to post by tsloan

 

30 million people, 40million guns. Us govt. 500k. Kinda bad odds don'tcha think?

respectfully

reluctantpawn

100 people with pea-shooters and a few 30-30's and .308's mixed in, versus two guys, one with a SAW, the other with a mini-gun (military issued of course).


Respectfully, I doubt highly the odds are stacked in the REI outfitted weekend warriors favor much.


AB1

[edit on 4-5-2009 by alphabetaone]

It's as big a mistake to overestimate your enemy as it is to underestimate him. A REALLY big mistake to place too much faith in technology over people, and their resourcefulness. I hear this argument over and over, as if folks think the military is going to rise en-masse and put down the people. Not going to happen. They're people too, and have minds, and relatives. They are Us. They can see which way the wind blows.

Sure, I can expect that some elements will go that way, but by no means all of them. God help any commander that issues contrary orders to awake and aware subordinates, because his arse will be theirs.

I once had the priviledge of knowing a man who had captured an entire enemy company (around 100 men) with only his squad (5 or so men). Captured, not killed. He's dead and gone now, but his blood, and that of others like him, still flows in some American veins.

There's more to a fight than just slingin' bullets. Your primary weapon is between your ears and under your hat.

NEVER, EVER trust more in a 'technological superiority' than in the ability, resolve, and THINKING of the men behind the triggers.

nenothtu out