The Growing Discontent

The NWO will come to the USA- that is certain. Traitors in the gov- past and present have seen to that. American troops will not fire on Americans but UN troops just might. American troops that will try to stop the NWO will be demonized as traitors and home grown terrorists. They have already started doing this through the media. "they" control too much. Level playing field- you got to be kidding! we have no chance in hell. Just defend your home and family and hope everyone does the same. God will take care of the rest.

reply to post by dooper




Dooper, I generally agree with you posts on ATS. But talk such as this threw me for a loop:

Hell, we'll just stack the dead in the streets at intersections as a warning. It's amazing how well this works.

Just whose bodies are you going to stack in the streets? The innocent elderly or children that get caught in the crossfire?

Or somebody who just happens to disagree with your point of view?

You certainly cannot mean peace officers or military. It will be a cold day in hell before they allow that to happen. The retribution would be fierce and final, and many innocents would end up as casualties.

And you would lose total respect from me, and many other patriotic people, if you pulled such a stunt.

I understand your frustration, but think, man, think!

As for SGTChas, your condescending attitude towards those of us who dare question you is not appreciated. You know very little, dare I say nothing, about the courage and desires of most of the ATS membership.

If you cannot withstand even a little criticism of your "plan" before things ever get underway, I don't want you on my side. You are doomed to failure before you ever begin, with that attitude.

reply to post by patriot jim


None of what you've said is new to us. Many of us here know what the odds are. We know we're not fighting on an level playing field. To think so would be delusional. But we also know what's at stake, and sometimes that alone is the drive necessary. Do yourself a favor, research what odds where when the allies were fighting against the Germans when they landed in Normandy, trust me the odds we're NOT in the American's favor. But it wasn't good or bad odds that won the day, it was sheer will and courage, it was heart and passion, and knowing WHY they were fighting.

As one General S. Patton said "It's better to die for SOMETHING than to live for NOTHING" you figure out whether the freedoms and liberties of you and your family are worth it or not. Me, I'm getting ready for anything, yes, even death. Which is not something many people can say. I thank god I am the child of a former police officer and the grandchild of a WW2 veteran because they were able to better raise me for this kind of mess.

(Edited in order to better explain the jobs/positions of my relatives)

[edit on 5-5-2009 by Question]

reply to post by dooper


That's precisely what I think will happen, and I'm amazed at the naysayers that think otherwise, and are looking for a massive, organized Citizen's Army. I see more like hundreds of relatively tiny Citizen armies, securing their local AO's, that more or less coalesce as time rolls on.

One note on the rural areas: I believe that, while they won't see near the chaos of the urban areas, they'll need to be on the lookout for stragglers and refugees, and need to decide BEFOREHAND how they'll handle that situation. They need to have a plan prepared and in place. The closer to the urban areas they are, the heavier the volume will be.

Being a refugee is an unenviable position. You have only what you can carry, and must depend on the kindness of strangers, which is not always what you'd prefer it to be. Never become a refugee.

Having to deal with refugees as the 'stranger' is also an unenviable position. You have to make life and death decisions on people you don't know, and who appear truly pitiable. Those decisions can be hard, and rather harsh. Unfortunately, you don't have the choice over whether to deal with them or not. Deal you must.

nenothtu out

Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by dooper

 

Hell, we'll just stack the dead in the streets at intersections as a warning. It's amazing how well this works.

Just whose bodies are you going to stack in the streets? The innocent elderly or children that get caught in the crossfire?

Or somebody who just happens to disagree with your point of view?

I believe Dooper is referring to those opponents who would be trying to 'invade' the nieghborhood, not 'elderly or children'. Evidently you think we're all barbarians here, because we prefer taking care of business. Yes, that can be at times distasteful, but stacking looters and invaders bodies up like cordwood in intersections clearly would give "would be's" pause for thought.

If, by 'somebody who just happens to disagree with your point of view' you mean folks kicking in doors and breaking windows in an effort to offer violence to our families, then yes, stack 'em up in the intersections.

If you mean those who argue that the credenza should be 'here' instead of 'there', not so much.

It's all a matter of who is trying to harm you. Is it really THAT hard to understand?

nenothtu out

[edit on 2009/5/5 by nenothtu]

reply to post by jsobecky


No condescending attitude intended; the response was aimed at your “Promoting violence against some nebulous enemy, relying on the military to support you, and marching ahead with no plan for the aftermath is both silly and immature ..." diatribe in which you seem to deem me some brain dead rebel rousing street thug.

Criticism is well excepted if delivered after a full venting of the topic at hand. Your response gives no hint of your even understanding the intent of the thread, as I have not “promoted violence against some nebulous enemy…” in this thread OR ELSE WHERE. Not to mention suggesting that I would be so ill advised as to march off with no plans while expecting the military or anyone else to support me.

To make such an argument is both fallacious and insulting as they appear as nothing more than Argumentum ad hominem; I have made no appeal to blind force, but merely one for preparation, networking, and planning; this because there is little time BEFORE we are forced by the government to take a stand.

Further, I have been training, planning and preparing militia units and their Armed forces contacts since the early nineties. This is not some new intellectual exercise of an ‘arm chair warrior’ as some other colorful respondent put it.

However, let me apologize to you for any affront, as we need no divisions at this time. By your leave Patriot.


[edit on 5/5/2009 by SGTChas]

May I just suggest something to those tea party protestors concerned on here... One of the major problems I have with conservative in general is their never ending business to be in other peoples businesses but their own. I suggest that if you are wanting to re-ignite a conservative movement move more towards a rightwing liberalist stance.... the stance where "we dont agree with what you do culturally and religiously but we respect your business and likewise you respect ours". Now many of you will be saying "well we do that already"... well you dont, you push down this culturalist religious stance down everybodies throats thinking your still respecting their backyard, but your not. You continue to miss out the fact ours is a changing world, that "you backyard" is just asmuch your as somebody elses backyard is theirs...

Abortion: You think fetus is already a baby and in that case should be put under the equivalent to murder, while the opposing side see it as just a fetus, still part of a womans body, still her business. You can argue about where life begins, and then others will argue that sperm have rights and nobody should be wearing protection when "makin love". The fact of the matter is that only the individuals concerned can make that choice, the woman is carrying that fetus, its still part of her body. You may disagree, you may preach but its her body. I suggest by the least conservatives change their tone regarding abortion to coming to accept it in the case of rape and incest, nothing beyond that, coming to understand and respect the backyard of other individuals.

Death penalty and torture: Really is hypocritical considering the religious following of most conservatives and their stance on life, review this, by the least acknowledge torture and how we as americans are above that.

Cut the outdated conspiracies: As much as you believe Obama was not born in america, or that his the anti-christ, or that his a fascist and a socialist, or whatever... the last thing you need in a movement is such spiteful negativity to scare off people. I suggest to move away from that, dont show that your all just a bunch of bitter conservatives because otherwise that will be seeing by most as just post election bickering. Rather protest on the core fiscal standings of conservatives, further promote the respect of "everybodies backyard". A peaceful movement promoting classic conserrvative values wont scare off moderates and others. Many who question conservatives will then be more wiling to come out and talk as seen a peaceful movement. You will not get anything going with just anger and conspiracy theories. There needs to be a standing where you are out there to promote classic conservatism and you are willing to debate about it without the insults or the conspiracies.

Stay on message: The protests were mixed, it was evident that every protestor there had their own agenda and that didnt come out clear through the protest. Stick with the argument of "debt" and "fiscal responsibility". Stop complaing about taxes that have been around fro decades, that aint ganna go away like magic. I understand the strong feelings against taxes but when you see a bunch of bitter conservatives complaining about taxes and blaiming this administration for taxes and making them pay, it just doesnt look good. Id say push the "debt" argument to the top of your protest... keep the "end the fed" stuff in the back. Asmuch as I disagree with the stance of conservatives over the stimulus, if they stick with one message I am willing to listen.

The above by the least should be looked into if you are to get a new conservative movement going. negativity ain ganna do it, ultra isolationist patriotism aint ganna do it, conspiracies aint ganna get moderates and others to help you with the movement. If you stick to the core message of "debt", if you make your movements peaceful and recognize the positives of conservatism, that your concerns go beyond fox news and rush limbaugh and alex jones, then you may have something that will work.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by Southern Guardian]

There has for years been small militia units training and establishing layer by layer communications. Based on the guerilla warfare three man cell structure - as the stand up regular unit formations had become obviously too easy to infiltrate and disrupt – these teams have been preparing for just what is taking place. Numerous National Guard Units have militia contacts as well as representative contacts in numerous other federal branches.

The work has been quiet and underground as many of us were set up on false charges and prosecuted during the Clinton/Reno anti-militia days. Public opinion that we were all NAZI racist fed by media propaganda also necessitated secrecy.

However, the work has continued and the structures are in place; more so then many can begin to even guess. We have been watching and waiting. This Republic shall stand!


In addition, I would like to remind one respondent that WE ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY! This is exactly the lie progressives have fed us as to be able to turn our Constitution into a ‘living document’ that a majority’s opinion can amend in activist courts they stack with progressive judges.

What we struggle for is a return to a pre-1900’s pure Constitution; before statist began to remake it into their internationalist, corporate central banking perversion we are suffering with today. A Constitution that basically provides that if what you are doing does not affect me or mine it is your business, and the government has no ability to control OR TAX such an activity.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

Your post was a little of topic,my response will also be off topic.For that I apologize to the OP.
Conservatives get into other peoples business? Was it conservatives that started our great social programs? Welfare, Affirmative Action or even The Community Reconstruction Act? I suppose that you don't see these things as getting into other peoples business. I however do,these programs and acts directly affect other peoples lives/business.

On the abortion issue: If you want to terminate the birth of your child,have at it as far as I am concerned. Just don't expect me to be over joyed at the use of my tax dollars to do it.

I have more but I feel I have derailed this thread enough. Again I apoligize to the OP.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Southern Guardian, this is what you continue to fail to understand (it is as if your eyes are stamped with ideological partisan blinders), this is not a conservative or liberal movement. This is a Constitutional movement. This is a movement to force our leaders and government BACK into its Constitutional boundaries.


[edit on 5/5/2009 by SGTChas]

reply to post by SGTChas


And you are mistaken that I specifically named you as “promoted violence against some nebulous enemy…”. But there is a lot of that going on in this thread, and when you mislead people with a false sense of security about how the military will lay down their arms and join them instead of follow orders, well, that's just irresponsible, imo.

Don't take criticism of the thread so personally. But, you have no "plan". Throwing out advice like "create highly mobile units of 3 to 6 men" are not solutions. They are surefire ways to get those 3 to 6 (most likely unskilled and out of shape) men killed.

The other straw man argument that I have a problem with is the notion that "they" are coming for our guns, and this will be the catalyst that will start everything. True, Obama is not to be trusted on this front, but we had no worries about being disarmed for the previous 8 years, regardless of Bush's other faults. And Obama will not succeed, as long as we have a conservative say in SCOTUS. The issue will be dragged out for years and the Boy Blunder will be long gone before it is resolved. I cannot envision a false flag jump starting that action; the battle will be fought in the courts.

As far as condescending attitude, this is an example of what I mean:

Of course, it could be just that the respondents have read only one or two post and charged off making crass generalizations. In which case let me suggest they read first and write later, as their post come off as nonsensical bombastic tilting at windmills.

That plus the fact that you felt the need to name specific names to wear these tags tells me you are insecure with your plan. Attitudes like that are nothing but divisive. You are attempting to create a 'them vs us' atmosphere.

So you've trained some people. Did they tell you that every plan is debated thoroughly at the highest levels to expose any weaknesses, before it is implemented? That is what our 'nonsensical bombastic tilting at windmills' is intended to do, not to berate you personally.

Yeah, I think I'll just keep my head down, my garden growing, and a few leetle friends around for when ya'll Freedom Fighters come through looking for grub. I am a peasant, always have been, always will be. I like it here. Everyone leaves me alone. Does anyone get what I'm saying? Lay low, be prepared, keep your nose clean and no one will mess with you. Sounds like freedom to me. Andy

As for the guerilla model, do you have the resources to make that work? Al Qaeda did, because of funding by Osama's hundreds of millions of dollars share of the bin Laden construction dynasty that his daddy built up. Others do because of state-sponsorship, i.e., Iran, Syria, etc.

What have you got? It takes money to run a railroad, you know. Lots of money. Victory gardens and unemployment checks ain't gonna cut it.

reply to post by jsobecky


In no way is it false hope to reassure that when this 2 American Revolution starts the military will not fire on those DEFENDING their Constitutional liberties. I’ve been at this too long in organizing and informing not to have a pretty firm overview of the below field grade officer opinions on this.

It is indeed fallacious and spurious for you to claim that I ever said that the military would ‘lay down their arms and join’ the Revolutionaries. It was also a crass assumption that I have no plans or have not HELPED with planning for many groups. For certain this incorrect and insulting.

Further, it was not a ‘straw man’ argument to point out that they will soon be coming for our weapons. You assume it is based on your other assumptions about my lack of plans and/or networking; this first event is not opinion.

Never the less, I do ask you to forgive any appearance of my adding to an 'us vs them' attitude as I have worked hard to bring unity. Sorry Patriot.

[edit on 5/5/2009 by SGTChas]

reply to post by jsobecky


You know, they never did find all of those DX’d anti-aircraft missiles, machine guns, tanks, et, et, el, that came up missing when Clinton’s GSA did a guard and reserve equipment and ammunition stock pile check. Ever wonder WHY it just fell off the radar screen after several newscast reported on it? I’m told that fear of this is one reason they have waited to make their move until now.

I’m told you could fry with all the static electricity built up in all that buried metal under remote high tension power lines if you dug down deep enough. Darn sloppy guard and reservist, loosing all that stuff.

Then there are those Texacans crossing the border and bringing all those interesting South American army toys back for the last 15 years. This along with the fact that almost NONE of the Machine guns, mortars, grenades and other such war souvenirs were turned in after the 1968 Gun Control act was passed. Of course there is all of that buried prepositioned cold war materials and equipment along the Canadian US border that is still buried; too bad copies of the NORAD black books with the positions of the dumps leaked out – I’m told that is.

However just one well placed shot with an M-21 riffle in the hands of a well trained man will gain what is needed at the moment.

reply to post by jsobecky


Dang. I go take care of some business, and it gets a bit nasty here.

JSO, if you'd read the context of my thread, you'd see that I specifically mentioned looters, rioters, and such that would attempt to penetrate neighborhoods to continue their mayhem.

It is those bodies that laid out at intersections would warn the others off. Of course they can elect to ignore that, and decide they are more lucky, but of course, that won't happen.

And by the way.

It works.

And I'm not about trying to earn or maintain anyone's respect. This is about getting a job done, to protect the innocent, against those who would kill the innocent.

If my suggestion upsets anyone's sensitivities, you have a lot to learn about human nature.

I'll not apologize for it. I tested it myself, and I found it works like a SOB! I tested a few other things.

I learned everything I could from some of the most canny enemies I faced, enemies better than most of the world has seen, and then I was able to go further and in turn, scare the living * out of them.

You beat a man in his mind before you ever engage, and you've already half won.

In all instances, I speak of the scum who would try to use force for personal gain.

I have no use for them, and unlike my honorable enemies I fought against, I could stack them up and eat a full supper.

Something I never felt like doing after combat. I just wasn't hungry that evening. Not nauseous, not regretful, not remorseful. Just not hungry.

But not against those who would take what you have just because they feel they can.

If you ever find yourself up against these folks, to hesitate is to die. Someone better be shooting quickly and accurately. You'll know you have the right ones by their manner, their dress, their weapons, and their eyes.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by dooper]

Originally posted by daddyroo45

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
Freedom is what this country is founded on and many here hope to preserve. A movement is afoot and it includes conservatives, liberals, libertarians, black, white, gay and straight. Many will stand to fight the common enemy.

Just for clarification sake. Who exactly is the common enemy and how do we identify them so that we don't kill someone that may be innocent and just standing around wondering what all the rukus is about?

The common enemy is an oppressive medalsome government,that would see our childrens children placed in the chains of national debt servititude.
The common enemy are those who would seek to usurp our soveriegn rights,to live as we see fit.
The common enemy are those that create divison among people by creating a class falicy.Promote some while oppressing others yet both should be considered by merit alone.
These are the common enemies of the citizens of this country!

Wow, this really clarifies a lot.
Your case still isn't made. What I take away from your post is that the 'Common Enemy' is every Governmental Employee? The Gov. employes more people than anyone or any company in this Country. From local, state and Federal branches of Gov. there is many more people than you probably realize. Who - who wants to usurp our sovereignty? What do 'they' stand to gain by limiting our freedoms? Big business and major corporations need us to stay in business. With out a free standing populace, money cant be spent on goods and services. So they would be shooting themselves in the foot if we, as citizens couldn't make the choice to go out and get a new car or blackberry.

You mean class fallacy, I'm not going to nit-pick type-os but what are you talking about here? I am familiar with the old saying, 'Divide and conquer' but you paint it as there are battle lines being drawn where we live. Democrats don't come 'round here says the Republican. Its not this simple and to over simplify the ideology's and beliefs that people in this Country are free to have defeats the point I think you are trying to make.

Our children's children placed in the chains of national debt servitude? What? I would expect as responsible parents we can teach our children not to bite off more than they can chew and not live on credit cards and pay-day loans. That's not the Governments fault. You have to take some personal responsibility here. If you fail to properly raise your children, you are the one to blame, not your elected officials or some financial institution.

I agree that the Government is steeping out of its primary role in its giving away billions in tax dollars. We as citizens will ultimately have to pay this all back. I feel that the many instances the Government has misrepresented its actions should be addressed. Patriot Acts and FEMA orders are something that should be diligently scrutinized. I can go on and on - but none of this is going to lead to armed conflict in the streets as the fantasy you and Alex Jones and others are promulgating.

Your vague explanations of 'The common enemy' is taking away from any validity you may have. As I stated in a previous post on this thread. Stop bloviating and trying to use any uncommon forms of speech. This is not English class; No one here is going to instantly buy in to what your saying as you attempt to write your view with an unusual articulation. I say this respectfully, If you want to reach your audience, speak in a more familiar manner.



[edit on 5-5-2009 by Mr.Hyde]

Originally posted by SGTChas
this is not a conservative or liberal movement.

Yet it appears only to be rightwing fringers and bushies pushing for this movement, using the same old "communist liberal" ploy advocating "conservativism". The same individuals such as yourself who kept your mouths shut during the bush administration. The thing I hate is how full of cr** you fellas are going on about "non-partisanship" after the way you all acted during election time and during the last administration.

Get off it. Nobody is buying your "non-partisanship" talk besides your own.

This is a Constitutional movement.

A "constitutional movement" after 8years of an already tarnished constitution left by bushies and other conservatives alike. Where the hell were you during the last 8years?

Dont talk to me about the "constitution" because you fellas had nothing to do with it over the last 8years until a liberal came in.

This is a movement to force our leaders and government BACK into its Constitutional boundaries.

What unconstitutional laws did Obama bring forth? The mans a consitutional teacher himself, pritty darn sure he knows where to walk and where not to walk on.

Interesting thread Sirs! Not too often do I read through an entire length of posting here, but the topic itself is one I think many of us Americans have on our minds now, possibly more than at any other time in history... so I've got to speak my piece with regard to the OP.

It is growing... I see it everyday. More people I run into are speaking out about what is going on
(let me state though, I feel that this problem is not new)
Some are just downright pissed off.. mostly the older generations whom once fought and died in some distant foreign lands long time ago. What is more bizarre to me is the fact that all of us are opening up. Seems to me that the peeling away at the layers has begun, and we all realize that somethin' is amiss.

What is the flashpoint, that stray match that lights the powder keg?
Furthermore, when it touches off... will anyone hear it?
That is my question.


In the meantime, I'm gonna keep going about the only thing I know I can do... ( ) and that is informing those that I run into on the streets and preparing myself. Frankly, if the SHTF I might not even know it, but I do know this... I'm with you guys. I'm not ex-mil and I might look like I'm outfitted from REI and have a few shooters somewhere, and yes, there is alot of us ready and willing.

For now,
T-
(I remain the 'grey man')

reply to post by Southern Guardian

Southern, I know you weren't addressing me, but if you'll be so kind, maybe I can respond.

No one, and I mean no one is and was more disappointed with GWB and his administration. He shifted us so far left, the White House, and the Congress buildings are tilted, and way off plumb.

We were here, and we were sick about it.

We didn't give a flying rat's fuzzy butt about the other pretender that the Republican Party picked as our Presidential candidate.

In fact, that we have a Democrat Senate and House is a direct result of Conservatives giving a clear demonstration of our displeasure.

As far as this growing discontent, the formation and successful recruiting of militias, the increase in weapon and ammo purchases, you'd be shocked at the "silent majority" that are steaming mad. Elderly folks are ready to take their canes and go beat the hell out of some politicians.

I actually get calls from Republicans wanting me to contribute money. I tell them "You lost your soul. You had it all, and you sold us out. You'll never get another dime from me."

Now I've been saying the same thing for the past eight years, and they still keep calling.

If a meteorite struck a joint session while the President was addressing the crowd, and the Supreme Court were there as a courtesy, and all were wiped out in a big crater, I wouldn't shed one tear.

I would likely state, "Well, there IS a GOD."

So, if you will, don't lump us all together in all things. RINO's are not Conservatives.

Just because I'm a Southerner who's fed up with this crap doesn't mean I want to blow the hell out of someone.

Unless they (bad guys, looters, etc.,) come asking.

I certainly wouldn't want them to go away disappointed.