My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?

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posted on Apr, 26 2004 @ 03:20 PM
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In the gospel of Matthew, we have this description of God turning away from Jesus.

And about the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying: Eli, Eli, lamma sabacthani? That is, My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mt:27:46


Now why would God (who, according to Christians sent Jesus to die for mankind) turn away from his son at the very time he needed God's aid ?

From what I remember from a conversation with a Born-Again Christian I had some years ago, Jesus took upon himself the sins of mankind. God, being unable to bear the presence of 'sin' turned away from Jesus at this point.

Is that basically it, or is there something more to all this. The comment that Jesus made implies that he didn't know that God would forsake him. But why didn't he know ?




posted on Apr, 26 2004 @ 04:31 PM
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You have pretty much answered the question. God had forsaken Jesus because of the sin that was on him at the time. This is the ultimate punishment, being seperated from God's presence.

Why did Jesus cry out? You have to remember that he was fully human as well as being God. He experienced the same emotions that you do. One day when your parents get older and die, (Just an example) you will cry at their funeral. Not because it was a suprise, but because you are human and feel emotions such as loss, and pain.

I believe that when Jesus made himself fully human, he had the same restrictions that you and I had so that he didn't know everthing that was going to happen. You can find lots of instances where He marveled at things, or got angry. How was he fully God and fully human at the same time? This is quite the question, and difficult to grasp. I suppose you could look at it as being in a car. When you get into a car to drive, you are limited by the abilities of that car, regardless of who is driving it. God took on a human form and subjected himself to everthing it was to be human.



posted on Apr, 26 2004 @ 04:54 PM
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i agree with what you said, dbates
o and a side note, Jesus cried out Eloi, Eloi lama sabachthani?, not Eli, Eli, lamma sabacthani?, or was that just because youre using a new king james version and i have new international?



posted on Apr, 26 2004 @ 06:13 PM
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Its a Douay-Rheims version I downloaded from the net.



posted on Apr, 26 2004 @ 10:39 PM
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SABACHTHANI

Scroll past the links on the yellow cross.^^^

From a Samael Aun Weor lecture:

LECTURES

THE AUTHENTIC ORIGIN OF MAN

It's from a PDF file so it could be tampered with, or it could also be poorly translated:


So, before the existence of this race that lives on these five continents, there existed the Atlantean race. Descendants of Atlantis are the Mayans. The Mayans emigrated, to Tibet, Egypt and Central America. It looks incredible, but even now, the Mayan language is stillspoken in Tibet, and it is a sacred-ritual language in that country. Let us remember that the Naga and Mayan languages are very similar.

Jesus of Nazareth learned Mayan in Tibet. That sentence of Jesus: "Eloi, Eloi, Lama, Sabachthani" ("Lord, Lord," some say "how you have glorified me"; and others say: "Lord, Lord, why have you forsaken me?"), well, that is not a Hebrew phrase. That is why, when the Jewish listened to Christ saying "Eloi, Eloi, Lama, Sabachthani", they said to themselves:
"This man calls for Elias, to come to save him..."
But any small Indian of Yucatan and Guatemala, can translate the sentence "Eloi, Eloi, Lama Sabachthani,"
because it is Mayan and not Hebrew. That is why the Jewish did not understand it, and it means according to the Mayans and their translation, "I hide myself in the pre-dawn of your existence" (it is a mayan ritual sentence).





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posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 07:10 AM
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Well first of all YOU COPIED THE NAME OF ONE OF MY THREADS!

Thats OK though, I am only playing around. Here is what I think about what you have just said:

If you look through the Gospels, there is a significant contradiction with what the last words of Jesus were. In other words, we really don't know exactly what happened because we have 4 different stories. So we don't know whether God turned his back on Jesus or not.



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by Tamahu
SABACHTHANI

Scroll past the links on the yellow cross.^^^

From a Samael Aun Weor lecture:

LECTURES

THE AUTHENTIC ORIGIN OF MAN

It's from a PDF file so it could be tampered with, or it could also be poorly translated:


So, before the existence of this race that lives on these five continents, there existed the Atlantean race. Descendants of Atlantis are the Mayans. The Mayans emigrated, to Tibet, Egypt and Central America. It looks incredible, but even now, the Mayan language is stillspoken in Tibet, and it is a sacred-ritual language in that country. Let us remember that the Naga and Mayan languages are very similar.

Jesus of Nazareth learned Mayan in Tibet. That sentence of Jesus: "Eloi, Eloi, Lama, Sabachthani" ("Lord, Lord," some say "how you have glorified me"; and others say: "Lord, Lord, why have you forsaken me?"), well, that is not a Hebrew phrase. That is why, when the Jewish listened to Christ saying "Eloi, Eloi, Lama, Sabachthani", they said to themselves:
"This man calls for Elias, to come to save him..."
But any small Indian of Yucatan and Guatemala, can translate the sentence "Eloi, Eloi, Lama Sabachthani,"
because it is Mayan and not Hebrew. That is why the Jewish did not understand it, and it means according to the Mayans and their translation, "I hide myself in the pre-dawn of your existence" (it is a mayan ritual sentence).





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well then how did matthew include "that is, Lord Lord why have you forsaken me?" unless he knew the language Jesus was using?



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 12:23 PM
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Remember...MATHEW ISNT THE ONLY GOSPEL!!!!!!!!

There are three others giving epictions of Jesus's last words.

"It is finished"

'Father, Into thy hands I commend my spirit"

Which is right?????? Read the bible. Other opinions exist besides Mathews.



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by Seapeople
Well first of all YOU COPIED THE NAME OF ONE OF MY THREADS!

Thats OK though, I am only playing around.



I wonder if Jesus will sue us both for plagerising his words


I doubt we will ever learn the actual last words of Jesus pimarily because it was so long between his death and the first gospel being written.



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by Pisky

Originally posted by Seapeople
Well first of all YOU COPIED THE NAME OF ONE OF MY THREADS!

Thats OK though, I am only playing around.



I wonder if Jesus will sue us both for plagerising his words


I doubt we will ever learn the actual last words of Jesus pimarily because it was so long between his death and the first gospel being written.


Yeah, I agree. We will never know exactly what happened. Maybe the people who are looking to see exactly what happened by using the Bible, are looking for the wrong thing from the Bible.



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 02:32 PM
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Matthew did not say these were Jesus last words though.
he said Jesus cried this out and then
v. 50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

o and the quote from vs. 46 is a mixture of aramaic and hebrew according to my study bible.

now on to Mark.
mark also has Jesus crying out my god my god why have you forsaken me in 15:34
and then 15:37 With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.

Now Luke.
Luke does not mention Jesus crying out about being forsaken but he does shed light on the last thing Jesus cried out in a loud voice. He says that what Jesus cried out in Mark 15:37 and Matthew 27:50 is "Father, into my hands I commit my spirit."

Now John.
John is the different one that says Jesus last words were "it is finished."

it is pretty certain that Jesus said all of these things and the different authors may not have committed them to paper. John is one of the most certain as he was at the foot of the cross as Jesus died. It may be that after Jesus had cried out in a loud voice, he merely said it is finished and only John heard him, other than that we do not know.



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by aldsar
Matthew did not say these were Jesus last words though.
he said Jesus cried this out and then
v. 50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

o and the quote from vs. 46 is a mixture of aramaic and hebrew according to my study bible.

now on to Mark.
mark also has Jesus crying out my god my god why have you forsaken me in 15:34
and then 15:37 With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.

Now Luke.
Luke does not mention Jesus crying out about being forsaken but he does shed light on the last thing Jesus cried out in a loud voice. He says that what Jesus cried out in Mark 15:37 and Matthew 27:50 is "Father, into my hands I commit my spirit."

Now John.
John is the different one that says Jesus last words were "it is finished."

it is pretty certain that Jesus said all of these things and the different authors may not have committed them to paper. John is one of the most certain as he was at the foot of the cross as Jesus died. It may be that after Jesus had cried out in a loud voice, he merely said it is finished and only John heard him, other than that we do not know.


It is not clear at all that Jesus said all of these things. It is your opinion that he did. People need to get that straight in their own heads....Amazing.


What is clear is that you don't know the difference between opinion and truth. So how can people believe what you say? Make sure you clear up those things with yourself before you come and tell me that you know what Jesus's last words were.

Since though, that you want to attack the validity of my argument...and you want to refer back to aramaic and hebrew. Where did Jesus ascend into heaven according to the gospels? And what were the names of his 12 deciples?

Just a little project for you.



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 02:48 PM
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youve got to be kidding lol
once im done researching this ill put up the time it took me.
current time:3:42 pm, Eastern time.

Luke 26:50 says Jesus ascended near Bethany, a village on the Mount of Olives

Mark does not specify a location and Matthew does not record it.
John does not record it either.
Acts gives mention to it in 1:9

now for the 12 disciples, in order of calling according to the gospel of matthew
Simon called Peter, his brother Andrew, James son of Zebedee, and his brother John (all 4 fishermen), Phillip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the tax collector, James son of Alphaeus and Thaddaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot

time now 3:53 pm Eastern time



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 02:52 PM
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it is not just my opinion that Jesus said these things.
The authors of the gospels thought it noteworthy to put it down and there must have been some reason for this.
Matthew and Mark both put down word for word what he said, and the Gospels are in harmony contrary to what many say.
Dont even think of bringing into question Christ being the messiah.
the chances of any given 8 prophesies being fulfilled in one man are one in 10 ^ 17, and Jesus fulfilled over 300



posted on May, 24 2004 @ 12:10 PM
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I agree with dbates.

It was the first time Jesus had known separation from God, He was there with Him throughout the eternities not just 'with' Him but 'facing Him with adoration'...the eternal Word, now separated from God, what agony it must have been carrying not only the sins of all humanity past, present & future...but also all the diseases and pain and anxieties of all humanity, separation from God for US !



posted on May, 27 2004 @ 01:07 AM
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The weird thing is that two translations from Aramaic to english that are avaliable online here and also here, translate the aramaic words differently.

Go figure





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