Why are they tracking every American household by GPS?

reply to post by suzque66


I'm embarrassed to admit that I really don't get what you're trying to say. There are laws against disclosure of the information. But laws only apply to us lowly schmucks. They really don't apply to people higher up in government or their major donors. Pretty much every day I hear evidence of this deal made or that kick back or conflict of interest but it's brushed off as no big deal. Just as it was against the law for that woman (forget her name) to access joe the plumber's records. laws do not apply equally to all people. there are perks to being in power, and that applies to whoever is in power. But even if you assumed the laws were going to be obeyed by everyone and that an individual's information really was kept private, then why do you need gps coordinates for each household? those are by their very nature both a personal identifier of location and impersonal numbers that can easily slip through the law by means of some creative definition. I really don't understand the point you are making about them using gps.

I would imagine that the GPS marking, BY ITSELF, would be nothing. Just this evening I was setting up a laptop to work with a GPS unit, using 'MapSphere' software. Hooked up the unit (a truly ancient one - one of the first units out) and took it outside my front door to get a fix. It put the marker within 15 feet of where it actually was on a satellite picture of my house so clear that I could make out individual bunches of leaves on the trees, and my car in the driveway. Pretty nifty. So yeah, they already have access to the coordinates of every building on the continent. No problems there. Looks like make-work, huh?

Nope.

What they are doing is associating EACH PERSON with a physical location where they can reasonably be expected to be found. They can have all the internet, credit card, banking, phone etc data in the world, doesn't do a bit of good if they can't locate you PHYSICALLY when they want to. What good it is for them to know that you have 5 guns, or 500 for that matter, if they can't locate them when the time comes? Just an example, I didn't mean to single out the gun issue, but it comes to mind. Among other things that would cause them to really like to know where you are - when the time comes.

Actual census questions aren't supposed to be coming yet. The census is next year. However, they need the LOCATION data now, so that next year they can have it in hand to associate INDIVIDUALS with. It'll be all ready, tied up with a pretty bow.

Yes, they'll be looking at barns, outbuildings and condemned property. According to the Census bureau website, they're looking for 'hidden' dwellings to 'make sure no one is missed'.

Yes, there's a federal penalty for failure to comply. I think it's around 200 dollars for refusal to answer, and 500 dollars for providing false information. And jail time, from 6 months to just under 1 year. I have to wonder how they'd assess those fines IF THEY CAN'T FIND YOU, though.

Furthermore, the census, according to the constitution, is to be administered as an actual headcount, by the Commerce Department. So far, this year, the census has been usurped by the White House, not Commerce, and they're planning on doing some creative estimating instead of an accurate headcount anyhow (anyone remember the recent flap over the guy that refused appointment as head of a Commerce?). Both of those illegal actions. Since the Government ITSELF is planning on breaking the law, I see no reason I should assist them in doing it. Wouldn't that make me an accomplice?

I plan on not being found when the questioners arrive. If that fails, I will be located ELSEWHERE within a week of the census, thus breaking that all-important identity - physical location link.

Yes, there ARE laws against certain types of disclosure of census information. What of it? There are also laws concerning the conduct of the census, there are laws concerning warrantless wiretapping, there are laws against holding citizens in jail without charges, there are laws concerning what carries the force of law. So what? Who makes those laws again? Oh, yeah, the same bunch in Washington that thinks nothing of ignoring whichever laws suit them. Good luck with that trusting outlook.

My dear old dad warned me these days were coming.

Yes, Virginia, there IS a Boogey Man.

nenothtu out

[edit on 2009/5/4 by nenothtu]

Have any of you considered just how FAR robotics have come along in the last 15 years?

Well...besides a satellite guided missile, could a semi-autonomous robotic soldier (SARS) make use of GPS data of every household in the US (Or world even)?

Once designed, and produced in massive quantities, a robot soldier, would actually be quite cheap. And of course, there'd be no moral outrage to deal with either...

reply to post by spikey


Spikey, the answer was staring us in the face from the start. Obviously the government needs to know where we are, so they can send killer robots after us.

The amount of paranoia on here is mind boggling. Forget the conspiracies, this is just about money, it always is just about people making money.

Thats strange they came here asking for the address. But never went near my door or gave me a piece of paper. They just asked if the address they had was correct and the name. According to them the post office gave them all the address' and names but they just needed verification.

Here is a video of one of these agents of the Police State being caught in the act:



*To anyone who supports these censuses,

Please post the portion of the Constitution or Bill of rights which you believe does specifically grant power to the Federal Government to conduct these censuses.

[edit on 4-5-2009 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by earlywatcher
One day a few weeks ago someone came to my front door but didn't knock or ring the bell. Upon noticing him I opened the door (hoping it was UPS with some exciting package). I found a young man writing down some stuff. Didn't pay too much attention. He said he was doing preparatory work for the census, but that he didn't need any info from me. handed me a printed piece of paper assuring me of privacy of data collected. While I choked back incredulous laughter at the very idea of privacy in this country these days, I was mostly relieved he wasn't asking for money and said, fine, and closed the door.

Since then I've heard from multiple sources that the purpose of this is

they must GPS mark the coordinates “within 40 ft of every front door” in America and they are supposed to complete that mission nation wide, within 90 days, by the end of July 2009. The workers were not told why they were GPS marking every front door. But a supervisor is sent out to follow them door-to-door, to make certain that no door is left unmarked. Every door will be marked by one employee, and then checked by a follow-up supervisor.

canada free press

I'm sure you've all see this news too (from the same article) that is less than reassuring.

ACORN signed on as a national partner with the U.S. Census Bureau in February 2009 to assist with the recruitment of the 1.4 million temporary workers needed to go door-to-door to count every person in the United States — currently believed to be more than 306 million people. But the count doesn’t take place until 2010… This is April 2009.

The conclusion drawn by most of the bloggers and news tidbits I've read is that this is a way to monitor each household. The more paranoid among them believe it will be used once martial law (please note the correct spelling) is instituted, we can be fitted with ankle bracelets of the type used to enforce house arrest, and tracked if we dare leave home, or maybe prevented from leaving home. maybe it's like one of these electronic dog fences. but i digress. the point is, the gps coordinates are or soon will be recorded for each household in america. while i don't quite buy into the ankle bracelet containment theory, it still seems pretty creepy. they have our addresses, what do they need gps coordinates for?

does anybody out there have other ideas about how this info will be used?

yea they were here about a week ago, see to kind of change the subject a little bit what gets me is this whole redundant array of inexpensive disks, and then with reduntant array of inexpensive disk 5 there is stripeing plus parity. so like when im looking out the window of my office and all those cars are moveing around like they can hear my radio, why would we need that, thats like an accident waiting to happen, who needs a redundant array of inexpensive disks with a byte of data being mirrored between them, i guess the federal communications commisions does not stop it because the united states military would have a # coniption, which basically that whole 9/11 ordeal that was all the united states government, and that patriot act they signed in 2005 means they are takeing the blame for it

Originally posted by nerbot
reply to post by earlywatcher

 

Yeah, daft isn't it!

btw....a piece of tin foil folded 3 or 4 times and slipped over the relevant page in your passport will render reading of the chip impossible (or v.difficult).

Destroying them is a no-no and could make you a target at an airport passport control, but protecting them from illegal reading is a sensible precaution.

re: credit card chips: hammer, blunt nail & whack!

(or just get rid of them altogether!)

A carefully folded piece of foil also makes a good hat and a protection from mind reading!

I have to say that this is probably nothing to worry about. If you think about it, they already have your Lat and Long position. Google your address.

However, you do not have to let them on your property and can tell them to buzz off. If they dont, use your local laws to enforce your rights, ie forcefully remove them with a swift kick in the rear.

I like a good conspiracy like the next guy, but in this case, based on what I've heard from a good friend who is one of these GPS-toting census address-trackers, this is largely a benign effort. A few things points...

The address verification is meant to locate and identify all dwellings so that the actual census forms can be mailed later, and in the cases of a new dwelling that doesn't match their current maps (such as a newly converted garage, back house or something doggier) and doesn't have a deliverable address, they will do a manual count.

The GPS aids this process by verifying the deliverable addresses and pinpointing the specific entry location of the non-deliverable entrances so they know where to come back to for the manual count - much more efficient than writing down a long description (this is mostly a guess here, but I think it makes sense).

As well, tagging the GPS coords on each dwelling helps insure that each address is indeed accurately accounted for instead of the surveyor just checking off a bunch of addresses on their PDA without actually surveying the address, as they are supposed to cover a certain number of addresses each day. Without the real-world GPS tracking, I suspect there would be a fair deal of fraud here - many of these people are very young adults.

If TPTB really wanted to aim their giant space laser at your door, it would be much easier to take 3 GPS reading around a city's perimeter and then simply correlate those with sat maps (that have known and verified coords), and then zap... zap.

I also personally believe that this doesn't come anywhere close to a breach of privacy, at least at this stage - they are not tracking WHO lives at each coord. It's been so long since I did the last census, I can't remember what type of information they actually ask for in the docs, but if they really wanted to know who lived where, I don't think they would be knocking on your door. And by the way, they ALREADY know!

Finally, my friend told me about how there was an entire block not on the PDA's internal map (a new development, I think), so she had to fill them all in (address, street, GPS, etc.). It's obvious how attaching the coords to these new addresses would help the accuracy of their count at a later date... how else are they going to know how many portable plastic coffins they really need to deliver to your local FEMA camp.

Just my somewhat informed opinions on this one (and forgive me, some slight humor) and believe me, I'm usually on the other side of the fence (the moderately-completely paranoid about BB side).

[edit on 4-5-2009 by Greyling2012] - damn, I just can't type at 5am - time for bed

[edit on 4-5-2009 by Greyling2012]

Originally posted by arcnaver
A carefully folded piece of foil also makes a good hat and a protection from mind reading!

OMG!! Disinformation agent!

Tinfoil acts as an antenna, making it easier for the PTB to read our minds! The sheer nefariousity of it all!

*Who sent you?! Was it the Illuminati?

Originally posted by earlywatcher
or soon will be recorded for each household in america.

My girlfriend is a manager for the census in the States. You are correct that the actual census isn't until 2010, but it's such an undertaking they have to start early. That makes sense. They have always wanted to know everything about you. I see them in my neighborhood as well with the GPS. I do believe that marital law is a possibility, but I personally don't think what they are doing is for evil purposes.

With saying that, TPTB can still access this info for whatever purpose they see fit. I think the actual census personnel are just doing their jobs. They really are just a tool to count the population. I think it needed.

EDIT TO ADD: Greyling2012 post three posts above this one describes the GPS purpose perfectly.
Q

[edit on 4-5-2009 by Quazi176]

Maybe the GPS coordinates are for foreign troops who can't interpret our language or street maps.

The is for the united states census. They have to go to different locations to verify if structure still stands & is functional. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble. No hidden agenda this time.

Why don't they wait a little bit and by then we should be in homeless shelters. Seriously I wonder "why" they need this information. The only reason I can see is target acquisition by artillery or air strike. It's like the census workers are unwitting "F.O's" forward observers. I must say I have lived a long while and never thought our country would become what it has. I wish we could of lasted at least as long as the Roman Empire. I'm getting off the topic and better run. Good Luck!

Have you guys seen this. Martial law bill in Massachusetts passed in the wee hours of the morning. Fantastic. Coming to a state near you.

www.mass.gov...

2 weeks ago some rumdum looking guy comes to my house. Im out back shooting, he never comes around the house. Nieghbors across the street see him look into mail box. I come around, they tell me about him. 2 days later Im at home with my son, this rumdum shows up again, "Im from the census, blahblah." I said I don't care get off my land. he stutters, I then ask for ID, he gives me this make at home badge-proxy card. I told him I wanted his Drivers lisc., he tried to balk, I flash my badge and reaasure him that I do work for the government. That and patrol cruiser parked in the driveway was a good hint. I made him wait while i ran his ID. Pissed him off. HAHA laughs on you, jack **s.

[edit on 4-5-2009 by phuch37]

[edit on 4-5-2009 by phuch37]

We had a county commissioner state that the cencus takers might get shot going onto peoples property about a week ago and this was the follow up article-

www.ruidosonews.com...

Census consensus: Protocol to be devised for canvassers Dianne Stallings [email protected] To avoid unnecessary confrontations with private property-sensitive citizens of Lincoln County, local, state and federal officials will work out a protoc
Census officials curbed field operations in the county after remarks citing concerns for the safety of canvassers last week. County Manager Tom Stewart told the county commission about the possibility of census workers being shot if they failed to follow local guidance.
Commission Chairman Tom Battin emphasized the importance of proper counting of county residents, as the numbers impact future funding on many levels.

Commission representatives will meet with officials of the Census Bureau and from the offices of U.S. Rep. Harry Teague (D-NM), New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson and with State Sen. Rod Adair (R-Roswell) today to discuss plans for census workers to complete the verification of addresses in the area.

On Saturday, discussions will continue as some members of the group join Teague to be briefed in the field on current canvass operations.

Stewart, who complained last week that there was a "major disconnect" between the Census Bureau and Lincoln Coun-ty's participation in the project, also will attend the meeting at the courthouse along with Cathy Illian, the Director of the 10-state Census Bureau's region based in Denver.

"The safety of our workers is always of utmost importance," she said in response to reports that census workers could be shot in cases where coordination with county officials was not followed. "We take warnings, even the perception of threats, very seriously.

"We thank Congress-man Teague for pulling Chairman Battin, Senator Rod Adair and


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all interested parties together to meet and show support for a plan to complete our address listing as soon as possible."
In a news release specifically to the Ruidoso News, Teague said, "Advocating for rural counties has always been a priority for me. Having an accurate count of all of our citizens is the best way to make sure Lincoln County is receiving its fair share of resources and that our citizens get to see their tax dollars invested in their communities."

Also commenting in the release was Battin, who said, "It is imperative that the census workers return to work as soon as possible," adding that the county was prepared to offer its support and services to the Census Bureau, including the services of the County Sheriff's Department, if needed.

"We want the most accurate count of all of Lincoln County citizens because, in the final analysis, the proper allocation of federal funds for projects that we need here depends on final population figures."

I saw a young lady the other day, she had the official bag for the census, she was writing down the address and I did not see a gps but was not looking for one, however, in the course of talking before realizing what she was doing I asked her what she was doing because she was getting right up to the door coming onto the property to write this down and there was no need to because you can easily see the address from the sidewalk.

When she replied she said she was trying to get 100% of the homes for the census and then I said ok, then asked her how many she has to do in a day, she comes back and says that is confidential I cannot tell you that, I was like WOW.

So just judging by what I observed and the OP observed there is something weird about this and since I cannot say I saw her with a GPS I do not know if that is the case in my observation, however, it was weird that she had to come up almost to the door and write something down, that if it was the house number she needed it was completely uneccessary to come up almost to the door to do it.

[edit on 4-5-2009 by phinubian]

reply to post by earlywatcher


They probably need the correct gps coordinates for some complex IT infrastructure project, who knows what. The law enforcement, healthcare and fire department could probably be helped by knowing what side the front door is before arriving at the correct address, saving time. Just look at google maps and the use of gps and/or triangulation for tracking people, isnt that a privacy invasion ?

Only for the truly paranoid, with the flu vaccination they inject a very small device used as a individual marker who then can be tracked by gps.Yes, the biblical mark of the beast.


[edit on 2009/5/4 by reugen]