Why are they tracking every American household by GPS?

I just hope it makes the Post Office stop screwing up and giving me the mail for the guy next door!

Originally posted by earlywatcher
while i don't quite buy into the ankle bracelet containment theory, it still seems pretty creepy. they have our addresses, what do they need gps coordinates for?

does anybody out there have other ideas about how this info will be used?

I know exactly why it's being done and how it will be used.
They need to know the coordinates of your front door because when you're given "divine" instruction to step out of your front door, the "voice of god" will then tell you what to do from there. Be it to kill your neighbor, turn yourself in to police, start a charitable organization, etc., you must obey, or the noise won't stop. Something like that. I could be way off.

In my opinion GPS marking is used to guide. This could be to allow for communication of coordinates for law enforcement.

Example, the federal government deem a group of people enemies of the nation. To ensure that the correct households are identified and targeted they simply send the coordinates of that front door to the officers on the ground who will be the ones to raid that property.

The chances of getting it wrong are currently quite high if communication is made through several lines or through several departments. With a GPS system marking every address there is no room for error, the details are sent directly to the officers on the ground and they know the right address is being targeted.

That's my opinion anyway.
I can't imagine why this system would be a priority for any government other than to allow for accurate deployment of law enforcement to the correct location.

They came to my fornt door as well. The lady gave me a paper explaing what they were doing and said it was for the Census.

I can scan the paper if you guys want.

[edit on 7-5-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

Originally posted by Bombeni
reply to post by PennKen2009

 

I know a couple of people who are working the Census, and they tell me if a form is not turned in that regular Census workers, working in pairs or more, will go to the houses and knock on the doors, with at least two attempts made, to make a face-to-face interview. Neither one I talked to today have heard of Marshalls being called in. That may be the last straw they use for households that refuse to be documented.

What do the Marshals do? Waterboard you until you tell them what they already know?

reply to post by jtma508


Thanks for the explanation. What you say maker perfect sense. No question that this is all useful information to many agencies.

One of the agencies that will undoubtedly make good use of newly released census data is a group that concerns me: ACORN. This group has been publicized as signing on as one of the census "partners". They have access to something like 5 billion dollars in federal money next year so they could be very helpful. I'm concerned not about what they might eventually do with the statistics in their voter registration efforts but what mischief they might get up to while "helping". The group has a long history of participating in voter registration fraud, paid fines, etc., also of using intimidation tactics to get contributions from businesses in return for stopping protests against said business. Several cases are now pending. They are being looked at to see if they should lose non-profit, non-partisan status because they are so blatantly partisan and have little regard for rules. They make things happen. So my question to you and any current census worker is: exactly what is their involvement? In what part of the process will they participate? I assume preparation of these mass mailings will be done by machine. Will they do follow-up work? Come to my home to insist I answer their questions? What else could they possibly do?

Which brings us to gps data. I do not believe the census bureau has nefarious purposes in collecting it, but data is valuable. Why else did the white house consider moving the 2010 census to their jurisdiction instead of commerce? because they have use for the data. data at some level of grouping. i expect they have people who can put it into whatever format they want. isn't that one of the options offered on the census website? special groupings of data?

The fact that the gathered material can be opened up to the individual level after 72 years means individual identifiers remain attached to the data. not names perhaps but something. SSNs I suppose. now possibly gps coordinates. which means that anyone well connected or possibly just nosey can utilize these identifiers, if they can get at them. A national partner like ACORN would probably be in a position to access them if someone told them to.

yes "they" already know everything about every one of us. yes there is no privacy left. i just don't like having my personal location attached to my confidential questionnaire in yet another government agency. that's not paranoia; that's certainty. the only question is, will it be used against me.

reply to post by earlywatcher


If you all want to get your panties in a bunch let me see if I can't help you out. ALL of your financial information is already attached to your home (and your business for that matter) by the financial institutions with which you do business. Not the Census. They already know all the demographic information anyone would ever want to know about you and in FAR greater detail. Who has access to that information? Who knows?

Commercial products are sold under MicroVision and a number of other companies. It includes your income over the last several years, where you work, your education, your credit score, etc.

Local law enforcement/public safety has all your location information and, yes, your GPS coordinates, name, anyone else in the house, the vehicles, where you work, etc.

So, if paranoia is your 'thing'...

Ok for those of who who no nothing, the Census happens every ten years and is in the Constitution. Every nation does a census, it is used to know who gets how many represenatives in Washington and who gets what money based on population. The Census does not share its info of personal information.
As to the GPS, the follow up team is the Quality Control people and since the first group is doing so badly it is a good thing the QC group goes out.
The new hand held computers do map spot all Living Quarters. In 2010 every household will get a paper to fill out and send back, those that don't will get a visit from a Census worker and those map spots on the GPS map will assure they get to the right home and do not get lost. Which can happen in a place like Nevada.

As to the Census it is law that you can not refuse to give information. We can bitch about this but if we truly want to uphold the Constitution then we must uphold all of it.

If we don't want the Government to pick it apart to deprive us of our rights, we can not pick it apart either.

Will they use it against us, DUH. Anything can be used to harm or help, it is what we do about it that will matter most.

I heard on the radio today that OKlahoma is joining Texas in Secession.

Don't get paranoid, get busy.

reply to post by jtma508


excellent points! in that case they could eliminate the census from the budget completely and simply buy reports from microvision or download info from IRS or whatever. seems like everybody on earth knows where to send me junk mail and make the junk phone call offers. With the amount of marketing done by political fundraisers to specific blocks of citizens, with carefully crafted appeals designed to enlist support, I can't believe there is anything they don't know about any of us. I kind of doubt if highway funds or anything else these days are allotted because of census data. Isn't that all politic bargaining now? like it was when they were doing dams and bridges. You do this for me and I'll make sure you get money for a dam in your state. that kind of thing. i must find myself a good book on the history of the census and see how it went from headcount to what it is today. it feels like a publicly funded way to gather met more marketing data for whomever has a product/agenda to sell.

so if they already have all this info, why does the census need to send out two waves of workers with devices specially purchased to collect gps data (money in the budged needed to be spend before the end of this year?) when the questionnaires will be sent by mail, to mailing addresses and not until next year? why not send out scouts only to residences who do not respond? a private company would need to cut out unnecessary expense but i guess not the government. did you explain that part? why pay two waves of workers and buy them devices, a year ahead?

my skepticism isn't with census workers who believe in the process and are trying to do a good job of it. my questions are more addressed to why do it this way, with unnecessarily expense, and making personal data more vulnerable to tampering though i'm sure SSNs are already on there and are just as sensitive.

no idea about the ACORN involvement? are you happy with this group handling your personal data?

i'm not saying this is the biggest problem facing us tody. It's a pretty small problem, as problems go. Still, doesn't hurt to ask questions. I continue to learn a great deal from this thread. some reassuring. some not.

Originally posted by jtma508
reply to post by earlywatcher

 

If you all want to get your panties in a bunch let me see if I can't help you out. ALL of your financial information is already attached to your home (and your business for that matter) by the financial institutions with which you do business. Not the Census. They already know all the demographic information anyone would ever want to know about you and in FAR greater detail. Who has access to that information? Who knows?

Commercial products are sold under MicroVision and a number of other companies. It includes your income over the last several years, where you work, your education, your credit score, etc.

Local law enforcement/public safety has all your location information and, yes, your GPS coordinates, name, anyone else in the house, the vehicles, where you work, etc.

So, if paranoia is your 'thing'...

I believe you are correct in your statements.

So why are they canvassing for information that they already have?

Sorry if this has already been poted but folowing a link from c2c I saw 'this'
www.worldnetdaily.com...

Although I can actually see why they would want to get an accurate accounting of domiciles, it just does not sit well with me and I think that it was an uncomfortable moment when they appeared at my door. They do have names as well, oh yes they do!

Originally posted by NightSkyeB4Dawn

So why are they canvassing for information that they already have?

Well the Army doesn't want to have to rely on local Police Departments to get the coordinates for the coming raids and airstrikes.

It is about efficiency and secrecy. The police might become suspicious and notice a pattern once the military gets started, so it is best to leave them out of the loop. Some of the police might even side with the people, especially Sheriffs.

No, this way is better. This is exactly what I would do If I was the sort to eventually round-up or terminate political enemies or potential political enemies. Any Threat to my governmental power would be marked, categorized and designated for eventual removal.

*Deep down every American knows what is coming.

That is why they have armed themselves to the teeth ten times over. There are not enough hands in America to hold all the guns.

I dont know why they are doing this, but if anybody trys that at my house theyll be sayin hello to a twelve gauge.


and that isnt a threat its the truth.

looks like the handheld gps devices are, in the end, all about money. got to wondering about cost and found this article published in 2007.

The 2010 census is projected to cost $36.43 per capita, with much of the cost going to the gadgetry that the bureau is using to make the second nationwide count of the 21st century a pencil-free affair. The total estimated price tag: $11.5 billion.

Here's the ticket to a high-tech tally: It may look very similar to other PDAs on the market, but this is Harris Corp.'s handheld computer, manufactured specifically for the 2010 census. It boasts a touch screen, 10-hour battery life and, even more impressive, fingerprint authentication and Global Positioning System technology "capable of sub 3 meter accuracy."

Meet the Device the 2010 is counting on

and why they are doing two waves of workers a year ahead? so workers can get the hang of using these devices. it sounds to me that taking the gps data is just for practice.

The Census Bureau needs to test the handheld devices this spring to ensure that the equipment works and that the program does not fall behind schedule. But details of what the technology will do are still being worked out, and that has led in part to the higher costs, according to auditors with the Government Accountability Office and a study done by Mitre, a government research group. Census officials decided, for example, that they needed to make sure the handheld devices could send information securely, a feature that added to the cost, a GAO auditor said.

Mitre said the program "lacks a leader with the experience, stature and passion to make FDCA successful. The Census Bureau has a lack of personnel with large-scale IT program management experience."

how much money you ask? a lot

A $600 million program to buy handheld devices and create an automated network to collect data for the 2010 Census faces major cost overruns and could cause delays in preparing for the nationwide head count.

But the program, called Field Data Collection Automation (FDCA), has already gone $50 million over its original costs in the past two years, government auditors said. Congressional leaders said officials at the Census Bureau have warned that if they have to revert to pen and paper, it could add at least $1 billion to the $12 billion effort to conduct the 2010 Census.

Over Budget Contract could stall 2010 census

according to the above article published in 2008, the actual purpose of the hand held devices is to take down information from the people who do not return their questionnaires. they say it will save money that otherwise would be spent on printing forms, storing them and transporting them, though i guess they will still have to print, store and transport all the forms people return. no mention of that.
btw, this census will cost twice what the 2000 one did.

getting depressed now.

Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez was scheduled to tell a House subcommittee Thursday that the government will scrap plans to use handheld computers to collect information from the millions of Americans who don't return census forms mailed out by the government. The decision is part of a package of changes that will add as much as $3 billion to the cost of the constitutionally mandated count, pushing the overall cost to more than $14 billion.

The computers proved too complex for some temporary workers who tried to use them in a test last year in North Carolina. Also, the computers were not initially programmed to transmit the large amounts of data necessary.

This was to be the first truly high-tech count in the nation's history. The Census Bureau has awarded a contract to purchase 500,000 of the computers, at a cost of more than $600 million. The devices, which look like high-tech cell phones, will still be used to verify every residential street address in the country, using global positioning system software.

breitbart 2008

and then this bit really is discouraging.

It's not the first snafu for the Census Bureau. It recently announced it also wanted to skip the process of fingerprinting and checking the backgrounds and criminal histories of its enumerators.

Now, let's think about that for a moment. The Census Bureau will hire some 600,000 temp workers for the 2010 Census. All will handle sensitive data. And most of these temps will travel in neighborhoods, going door-to-door, asking questions and taking down the most sensitive personal information possible. They will be invited willingly into peoples' homes with official US Government ID badges, sitting on the sofa or at families' kitchen tables, asking questions about family income, numbers of family members and their ages and gender, and other sensitive issues. Some enumerators will probably be given "long form" questionnaires that delve into even greater detail. And the Bureau wants to waive fingerprinting and background checks?

computerworld blog

I hardly know what to add. they probably never even thought of using the gps data as identifier to whoever is living in a house. it was just all about money, awarding a huge contract to a favorite vendor. gathering gps was just something to do to keep from not using these expensive devices at all.

Originally posted by adrenochrome
what's that specific "project" that they have that has all those telescopes aiming down and watching us from orbit? they can even see how much change i'm holding in my hand...

i just remembered the name of that Project/Operation!
...if it wasn't called Project KeyHole, then it used KeyHole satellites!

en.wikipedia.org...


whew, i feel complete again

reply to post by Johnny_Sokko


You should have told him you are a part of the neighborhood crime watch, and have a civic duty to watch over not only your own house, but your neighbors as well. If you haven't seen it on your local news, neighborhood communities are now upgrading by using video and surveillance cameras which are a big help to the police officers. Many of the homes have hidden cameras that activate to movement as well not only trained on their own homes, but others as well.

We take the safety of our neighborhood very seriously. As far as I know you are only saying you are a part of the census takers. How ever I can not be 100% sure. Anyone can say anything, and any one can print out a privacy policy on their home computers. Any one can buy GPS systems for the purpose of scoping out homes they are interested in robbing at a later date.

I hate con artists. I have not given you or any one else permission to mark our house on a GPS system, and want you to remove it now, otherwise I will call the cops. You don't live in this neighborhood, and I don't know who you really are. I piece of paper isn't going to tell me squat.

And then see what they do. The part last may be going too far. Saying first part would hopefully put him on his toes. I know I watched a news clip on TV about new ways people are doing neighborhood watches. The police are using the hidden home surveillance cameras to arrest the criminals. I heard some are more sophisticated in alerting police with possible break ins, and giving the gps location, so they can do a drive by. That was coordinated with the local police department in one community also. I'm not sure how it worked even when they explained it in the news clip.

Combine this gps with google earth and there is a for them to get to your house. Now all they have to do is match your address to your name . Reminds me of Fema.
On the youtube video about it you cant even make comments on it.
www.wethepeoplewillnotbechipped.com...

www.worldnetdaily.com...

[edit on 12-5-2009 by Applesandoranges]

I may have just stumbled across the reason American households are being GPS'd.

I might have just now seen the answer on BNN (Business News Network). BNN is Canada's very clean and unbiased, no spin whatsoever business channel. It's a TV resource held in the highest regard and esteem for it's completely nonspun and honest reporting. Canadians are rightly proud of BNN when compared to babble we see daily from Jim Cramer (aka Bozo the Clown) on the CNBC circus. It's criminal that Americans don't have access to an honest business network as is available in Canada.

So on BNN, I was stunned to have watched a brand new state of the art flying surveillance vehicle that is right out of George Orwell's worst nightmare.

This vehicle is about the size of a little remote controlled helicopter popular with hobbiests, hobbyests, screw it... hobby people. It sounds the same as one of those little helicopters as well. It can be quickly broken down and packed away into the trunk of a police cruiser in a handy dandy little suitcase. It's also designed to carry different payloads... different types of cameras for snooping on the people of America.

The main reason I suspect this is the reason for GPS'ing American homes is because most cops can't fly a remote control helicopter. So this little minion can be programed with GPS co-ordinates that the officer can punch in, and the little spy will fly to that location exactly and automatically, day or night, and take pictures and video where ever told. The theory here is that the cops who wreck almost everything they touch (and thoroughly enjoy it) will be unlikely to crash these little intruders.

After extolling the virtues of BNN, I might have to admit is that these little buggers might be Canadian made. If they are, on behalf of all Canadians I apologize.

But the one issue that I don't think has been properly taken into account by the police forces interested in buying these things at $50,000 per copy, is that they're only good for one flight. One shot with a 12 gauge would do the job nicely. Although I wouldn't normally approve of Americans shooting down Canadian made aircraft, in this case I say to the good American people..."give 'em both barrels". And to the police I say good luck keepin' them in the air you gestapo bastards.

BNN also provides a fabulous service of making most of the various segments throughout their broadcast day available for re-viewing on their website. The individual clips are arranged in the same sequence as they appeared real time. This clip appeared at approximately 2:30 p.m. (Mountain Time) Friday, May 25. That info might help you locate the clip.

watch.bnn.ca...

At this point in time I don't see the clip, but I suspect it will appear later today. Check the site yourself now... it's probably there since I wrote this post at some point in the past.

If I see it later today (Friday, May 15th), I'll post it here.

reply to post by Albertarocks


this is one the more plausible explanations I've seen for collecting the gps coordinates for every household. I admit that my discovery of the huge money spent in buying these custom made handheld gadgets that are really sophisticated computers rather than simple gps devices, i was thoroughly demoralized by the excessive cost, particularly when it turned out they were not quite sophisticated enough and anyway the census workers could mostly not work them properly, so the whole thing was a waste. They they are sill collecting those coordinates and they will use them for something.

I have long thought that surveillance could easily done with tiny cameras mounted on remote controlled devices. my thought was something the size of a dragonfly or a small bird but a tiny helicopter would be fine though more noticeable. I applaud Canadians for the ingenuity in creating these! I'm sure if this is showing up on the media they have far fancier gadgets available for covert use.

Personally I don't think the police would need this level of secrecy for the most part. these tinkets are expensive and I would thing would be reserved for deeper project.

Good find Albertarocks!