Should the C.I.A. be terminated?

After referring to the The Garrison Tapes - The Real Life JFK Investigation thread a natural question may arise to many minds.

Should the C.I.A. be terminated or at least be subject to reform thus operating under a different status?

Many will agree to such a prospect and many will naturally disagree.

I will let that up to the discussion from all of you herein and see if its is possible to come to a conclusion.

Yea.. they should but they are not the once in control of the evil agenda... It won't stop of the other agencies.

[edit on 2-5-2009 by amfirst]

I dont think this is the *CIA*.. i think during these years the CIA grew far too powerful and groups splintered off from it,so while technically it is the CIA i think these people are completely seperate and working independantly from the mainstream CIA that we all know.

[edit on 2-5-2009 by Solomons]

NO, the CIA's role in government and security is essential.

Can the CIA be corrupt?

You bet, along with the FBI and every other government agency that has either secret powers or can legally keep secrets.

If you are going to get rid of the CIA, please don't stop there... Because there is corruption in just about all government agencies.

If you only knew.

Partnerships between government agencies, lobbyists, organized crime syndicates etc. Corruption and power combined with secrecy will infect any government agency with covert agendas, criminal activities, murder, extortion etc... If you think getting rid of the CIA alone will eliminate that.... Go for it!

reply to post by Walkswithfish


Then i guess you tend to the scenario of reform to protect civilians and give some more control over any agencies whereabouts. Right?

reply to post by GEORGETHEGREEK


What you say sounds good in theory but it is not practical nor will it work.

The CIA cannot operate under any kind of transparency, they have a hard enough time trusting their own agents.

The bottom line, either we as a nation must have this and other agencies that can in some ways operate with secrecy and immunity, or we do not.

The source of corruption will never go away, it will find its way into every agency. That is the problem, deal with the corruption, eliminate it and you will have these agencies as they are and were intended to be.

Everyone has a price and can be bought, if not they can be threatened in ways that will assure their cooperation and obedience, and that is how corruption infects these government agencies.

If this government was really serious about winning the war on drugs, it could do it by first eliminating corruption in the CIA, FBI, DEA etc.

It wont happen, know why?

When you cut off the head of a Hydra two others will pop up. As long as the evil core remains nothing will change. The guys behind the puppets should be taken care of instead.

But still, human nature remains unchanged someone new will get corrupted and repeat history. So we have to change as a whole either through alien contact or through some big ass revolution.

Free clean energy, free clean food, free clean water, no politics, no economy, compassion to one other.

[edit on 2-5-2009 by broli]

[edit on 2-5-2009 by broli]

My self i find it quite unacceptable to have some guys play over my head just like children, only it wouldn 't be a burden in the case of children.
Children have naive motives and discover the world.

Plus children do not play on everchanging rules to control, dominate and shepherd us...

As such i do not get the logic: Cut one head and two will pop up....
What about reforming the way C.I.A. works and give it some clarity like
" These are your boundaries and this is the scope. Ohhh maybe you want to be reporting to this group of people so we know you do your job as you should".
It shouldn't be a Hydras case in the first place. I bet most as i see have this as a common denominator. A Hydra abousing the people in one way or another.
We' ve comme a long way from whatever meaning of democracy.

So far it seems that most of you do not believe that a solution is viable.
OK everybody brags about Freedom and blah blah blah but where is it?
Have we lost dignity and hope? Is our world really so bad that we' ve lost faith and hope? Whats next?
Currently we are told to jump and we hop around until they are bored watching as. Yes for making things look a bit interesting they allow you to crowl sometimes for a break so people feel that "Hey we are mowing to some direction!"
This is around the world not just in the US. Its prety much the rule.
Globalisation you see. As if democracy operated right in such large groups as we are... I guess someone thought:
"Ok people have lost control, why not make it a world government of one sort or another. We will have easier control and everybody will be diverted in a world of varying cultures, opinions and interests in clouds of mis/information... where if a small group of people even gazed at having some improvements made FOR the citizens it will be easiest controled by the Status Quo, taking breath and hope away from the rest..."
and so forth...

It seems that this world is the one we allready live in. At least thats what the signals i am getting from this thread say...

So you are not happy, but also you feel that there is no option for the better.

Maybe the next J.F.K. will be wiped out by C.I.A. allegedly.
Maybe exterminated even easier nowadays if it is the case such a man or woman is to ever show up and have an actual interest in the well being of everyday people, the Citizens.
Maybe we are worth it since if noone objects the persons/agency/ies on top becomes more and more ruthless.

I will do my prayers tonight before going to bed and certainly before checking back on ATS.

Farewell
George TG

Originally posted by GEORGETHEGREEK
After referring to the The Garrison Tapes - The Real Life JFK Investigation thread a natural question may arise to many minds.

Should the C.I.A. be terminated or at least be subject to reform thus operating under a different status?

Many will agree to such a prospect and many will naturally disagree.

I will let that up to the discussion from all of you herein and see if its is possible to come to a conclusion.

The question is "Why would you ask the question?"

Are they deserving of closure/reform?

We tried reform...The FORD Commission caused 9/11.

We have oversite through Congress and the press.

Because you do not like something does not mean you kill it. Our beloved leader has put a person with ZERO intelligence experience in control of the CIA. Will that reform it?

Ask these questions...

1. Where do you want to go with the CIA?
2. Where is it now?
3. What are your plans to get there?
4. What are the road blocks?

Otherwise all other statements are hot air.

reply to post by crmanager


Dear crmanager,

These are exactly the questions i am asking. Only difference i have spelled it out in other words.

At this point i should say that CIA for example is part of the US system.
It is not that i am against, only i would preffer more honesty and honor to the people. Otherwise there is no point in state anyway.

The CIA can't be terminated. I can't remember the name of the tree, but apparently, the root system spreads for miles, and when you see a cluster of these trees, it's actually one, big single entity.

There are branches and sub-branches so far apart, working their own agendas, even contrary to policy at times. They can even provide their own funding.

You'll have certain sections wanting someone stopped, and other sections protecting the same person.

No, the CIA should not be terminated, nor could it.

It would merely transform, and become dangerous to everyone. At least now there's a bit of organization to it. Take that away, and what does that leave?

Originally posted by GEORGETHEGREEK
reply to post by crmanager

 

Dear crmanager,

These are exactly the questions i am asking. Only difference i have spelled it out in other words.

At this point i should say that CIA for example is part of the US system.
It is not that i am against, only i would preffer more honesty and honor to the people. Otherwise there is no point in state anyway.

Seems that you have decided with the "Honsety and honor" statement. You seem to say they have little.

What do you want/expect from them to deserve the statement you made?

This is the equvilant of saying "Should we stop/reform abortion?"

Why do you ask is my question.

reply to post by crmanager


In the oppening post you will see a link to the thread that started all this.
I might as well be wrong but the linked documentary has plenty of evidence that the C.I.A. terminated J.F.K.

If this is the case there is no point in a government or president. C.I.A. may just go ahead and do its job and we follow as the good herd of lambs....

This is why i ask my question.

"But what counter-insurgency really comes down to is the protection of the capitalists back in America, their property and their privileges. US national security, as preached by US leaders, is the security of the capitalist class in the US, not the security of the rest of the people."

"A considerable proportion of the developed world's prosperity rests on paying the lowest possible prices for the poor countries' primary products and on exporting high-cost capital and finished goods to those countries. Continuation of this kind of prosperity requires continuation of the relative gap between developed and underdeveloped countries - it means keeping poor people poor.
Increasingly, the impoverished masses are understanding that the prosperity of the developed countries and of the privileged minorities in their own countries is founded on their poverty."

"Reforms of the FBI and the CIA, even removal of the President from office, cannot remove the problem. American capitalism, based as it is on exploitation of the poor, with its fundamental motivation in personal greed, simply cannot survive without force - without a secret police force.
Now, more than ever, each of us is forced to make a conscious choice whether to support the system of minority comfort and privilege with all its security apparatus and repression, or whether to struggle for real equality of opportunity and fair distribution of benefits for all of society, in the domestic as well as the international order. It's harder now not to realize that there are two sides, harder not to understand each, and harder not to recognize that like it or not we contribute day in and day out either to the one side or to the other."

These quotes about the CIA are from Inside The Company: A CIA Diary, written by Philip Agee. Agee worked with the CIA from 1957 to 1968, where he witnessed the Tlatelolco massacre, where government shooters lured police and military personnel into slaughtering student protesters. These events led to his resignation from the agency.

Drug smuggling, the support of dictatorships, assisting in the oppression of the working class, murder... the CIA should be dismantled.

I guess that by now some more people have seen the The Garrison Tapes - The Real Life JFK Investigation,
so i thought of bringing this thread back in and have a second look at your insight.
Opinions are varied so far...

I took action in bringing this thread forth again since its relatively fresh and i have seen a few other threads around with similar troubling matters. I do not feel that i am in the position to elaborate in those other threads due to lack of knowledge or at least a picture complete in my mind to draw some conclusions and comment upon my view. i.e. what is waterboarding? i pretty much guess its a metaphor of practices or situations...

However there is quite a clear message i am getting from these threads.
People are not happy with a number of things, which suggest the need for at least some kind of reform on the current way things work.

I am not saying that there was no need for creating specific agencies.
Neither am i saying that all of the means used are unnecessary.
What i am sensing is that to the eyes of many things have drifted away from the original reason or scope, or even that the scope might have been different to what people were led to believe.
In a way the thread emerged in order to come closed to the present reality of things or needs. Thus i am shooting it back on the recent posts section to see what your insights are yet again.


GTG

watch the good shepard, very booring movie but shows hypothetically how the CIA came to be the power house that it is today. it is amazing that this agency has so much control and does so many things in secret. still doesnt excuse nancy pelosi though.

You just cannot terminate the cia.It is to powerful.It is involved in too many different areas and countries.They have done some bad things over the years but there good points out weigh there bad points.Could you just imegine if the cia was axed tomorrow.Too many people would be affected and lose there jobs.Certain people would proberly spend the rest of there lives threading paper from the millions of cia files in storage.Teorrists and evil goverment intellegent employees would become more powerful and have a better oppituniuty to kill innocent american lives.No way Hoe Jhay

This is rather idealistic, and I wonder if you understand how deeply embedded into the global structure the CIA is. The CIA isn't just an intelligence agency--it is a gentleman's club for the families of the best and the brightest. At the very top of the chain of command, the CIA's blood is distinctly blue. We are talking about Bonesmen, about sons and grandsons of Trilateral Commission members. We are talking about the sons and cousins of men who summer at Barnstable and Kennebunkport and a community so tight knit it goes back to the Eastern boarding school establishment. "Getting rid of" or even "massively reforming" the CIA would be the equivalent to a bloody purge with absolutely no guarantee of success. The CIA is run by, owned by, very big, very old, money. In a relatively short time since its creation, it has become an indelible part of the American sociopolitical landscape.

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
The bottom line, either we as a nation must have this and other agencies that can in some ways operate with secrecy and immunity, or we do not.

The source of corruption will never go away, it will find its way into every agency. That is the problem, deal with the corruption, eliminate it and you will have these agencies as they are and were intended to be.

The US has about 5% of the world's population and uses close to 50% of the world's resources. in other words, it's like a cancer leaching off the rest of the body.

The CIA, "as it was intended to be" is one of the primary instruments in maintaining that disparity. And it's the secrecy that allows it to flourish.

If you want to get rid of the CIA, all you have to do is blow enough covers everywhere. CIA whistleblowers down the years know this, and why they haven't revealed any specific identities themselves, they have given others the means to work these things out for themselves. Good for them, I say.

When someone like Sidney Gottlieb in MK-ULTRA can give '___' to unwitting subjects and put them through all sorts of horrors, and get away with it... how can you tell who's corrupt and who's not?

These people have no moral compass. To draw an arbitrary line through some of the CIA's activities is ludicrous. They're about spreading lies, subverting governments, assassinating troublesome heads of state...

Their "legitimate" job is utterly corrupt. The distinction you attempt to draw cannot be drawn.