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Cap and Trade a ‘Declaration of War,’ Say Republicans

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posted on May, 1 2009 @ 03:19 PM

Democrats’ cap-and-trade plan could cost every family $3,100 a year and is a “declaration of war on the Midwest,” lawmakers told this week.

Under cap and trade, carbon that energy producers emit is capped. They can exceed that cap through the purchase of carbon permits. The money for those permits would be collected by the government.

The “$3,100” is based on a MIT study that examined cap-and-trade legislation.

Democrats dispute the Republicans’ cost figure and say the plan can be accomplished without imposing any cost on the pubic.

Along with increased energy costs, there are the millions of jobs put at risk if they impose this new tax on industry when our competitors around the world will not have such a burden.

Reps. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) and Rep. Edward Markey (D-Mass.) have introduced a draft of the “American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009.” It will be reported out of committee and begin its way toward Obama's desk over the next few weeks.

Despite Democrat protestations to the contrary, President Obama himself predicted energy prices would skyrocket under a cap-and-trade program.

When Obama was interviewed by the San Francisco Chronicle and he said:

“You know, when I was asked earlier about the issue of coal, uh, you know, under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. Even regardless of what I say about whether coal is good or bad. Because I'm capping greenhouse gases, coal power plants, you know, natural gas, you name it -- whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, uh, they would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that on to consumers.”

Hope and change are wonderful in their variety!

Remeber Obama's books, in which he declared his disdain for "middleclassness?" A position he repeated, often out of earshot, during the primaries and general election.

As Jeremiah Wright so prophetically observed: "The chickens are coming home to roost" in the new America.

Look what you've done to my Country!

Deny ignorance.


posted on May, 1 2009 @ 03:24 PM
Cap and trade is just somebody trying to make money on our ecological crisis. How about we scrap the cap and trade and instead just try to develop better energy sources? All this does is add more layers of government and increase the federal budget.

Smoke and Mirrors

Sleight of Hand

Just Democrats trying to take some more of OUR money.

posted on May, 1 2009 @ 03:24 PM
It's not just Obama who hates "middle classness" come on, give me a break. It wouldn't matter who was in office, they would be destroying the middle class regardless.

But can you actually blame them? Seriously? People at the top can so easily look down upon everyone else cause society is such a cess pool. Go to wal-mart, and you will understand. In fact, go anywhere where society gathers and you will witness cess pool.

So they look down on people absolute blissful ignorance and of course they want to rape us. They most likely sit around at night with each other and roll on the floor laughing at how utterly brain dead their subjects are.

posted on May, 1 2009 @ 03:30 PM
As an added observation, the UK carbon tax program, which has thus far failed miserably, consistently losing value for carbon credits, has been criticized for failing to support alternative energy strategies (one of the primary justifications for the program):

"UK Carbon Scheme Snubs Renewable Energy"

According to the article, businesses will be taxed according to the amount of electricity they consume. They can buy carbon credits to offset usage in ewxcess of the "caps" they are allotted.

Unfortunately, businesses who obtain their electricity without carbon emissions (e.g., Wind Turbines, Solar, Nuclear) have to buy the credits anyway! They get no incentive or credit for being carbon-neutral or even if they are carbon-negative (producing more than they consume).

Thus businesses see no reason to move to alternative sources or to make them more economically competitive!

deny ignorance


posted on May, 2 2009 @ 11:32 AM
Originally posted by groingrinder

Cap and trade is just somebody trying to make money on our ecological crisis.
All this does is add more layers of government and increase the federal budget.
Just Democrats trying to take some more of OUR money.

Add this to the mileage tax Rep. Oberstar (D-MN) is pushing for to support his $500,000,000,000 transportation bill, and we'll be paying more than any income tax cut could ever free up for us.
"Top Lawmaker Wants Mileage-Based Tax"'


posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 10:30 AM
I was listening to the radio in the car yesterday and was fascinated by this information. Both Mark and Dr. Blick asked folks to post this information on the internet so the info gets out. You can check out the website too, but this is Oklahoma, so many of the views on the website are anti-progressives.

Obama’s “I Have a Scheme” Plan
Edward F Blick PhD*
Retired Prof. Engineering & Meteorology Univ. Of Oklahoma
The first part of President Obama’s “I Have a Scheme” plan is the passage of the “Cap and Trade (Tax)” fossil fuel rationing bill. It will be the largest tax increase in the world’s history. It is scheduled for vote in the House of Representatives, this Friday, June 26. It is another huge bill (over 1200 pages) that no one has read except the global warming crooks at the UN, who wrote it. Please pass this information on to your legislators and local media outlets. This bill must be defeated!
If it passes, Obama hopes to have enough money to pay for his Universal Health Care Rationing scheme. He hopes the taxes from Cap and Trade will drive gasoline to $8 per gallon or higher. Then the public will buy his “putt-putt” cars from his newly extorted auto companies, Government Motors and Chrysler/Fiat. His scheme involves setting up a “straw man” (straw molecule?), carbon dioxide (CO2), that is used to frighten the public. He tells us this mean molecule CO2 is causing a climate disaster by warming the Earth, melting our polar ice caps, raising our sea level, and inundating our coastal cities. (Can we restrict it to Washington , DC ?) There is no credible scientific evidence to support any of this nonsense. Anthropogenic Global Warming and its new name, Climate Change are politicized science. This politicized science scheme is a variation of Politics 101, which uses fairy tales to frighten the public, and then the government promises to save them by some scheme that involves raising their taxes. It’s a big con job by the government.
All of the rhetoric about a shortage of oil is baloney. America has 25% of the world’s coal. We are the Saudi Arabia of coal. We can make oil and gas from coal using the Fischer-Tropsch technology used by the Germans in WW II. SASOL in South Africa has produced petroleum from coal for decades! They have no indigenous petroleum supplies. The German synthetic oil and gasoline were so good that as U.S. General Patton’s Third Army began outracing their supply lines they transferred the synthetic gasoline from German vehicles and raced ahead.
A recent Royal Dutch Shell report indicated that when oil prices hit $64 per barrel, it is economical to produce oil from coal. The term “we are running out of oil” is obsolete. We can make sulfur-free petroleum in any quantity and any grade we want! In addition by using fast breeder reactors, the world has enough nuclear fuel to last for tens of thousands of years! Obama needs to abandon these punitive tax schemes on fossil fuels that will kill our prosperity and start developing coal to oil and nuclear energy programs.
Atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) is a harmless gas. It is not a pollutant. CO2 and O2 are gases of life. God in His wisdom set up a synergism between the living gases of animals and plants. Animals inhale oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide. Plants inhale CO2 and exhale O2 by the process of photosynthesis. Why is Obama ignorant of these basic facts? When CO2 levels drops below 200 parts per million (ppm), plants start to die and then man dies. During the 20th century, a warmer ocean increased atmospheric levels of CO2 which increased crop yields worldwide. CO2 has not caused measurable increase in global temperatures.
The U.S. House of Representatives Committee of Energy and Commerce, chaired by Henry Waxman recently passed the “Cap and Trade” bill. Duplicating Europe’s failed scheme would be a knockout blow for the U.S. economy because it would dramatically increase energy costs and cripple the nation’s dwindling manufacturing base. It would be a giant economic dagger aimed at the nation’s heartland, where 20 states get 60-98% of their electricity from coal.
This bill compels an 80% CO2 reduction, by imposing punitive cap-and-trade restrictions on virtually every business, motorist, and family using hydrocarbon fuels. Anything and anyone who uses electricity and/or fossil fuels will be taxed. The National Economic Council puts the tax bite at $1.3 to $3 trillion, which averages out to $4000 to $10,000 per person. Since businesses pass their increased tax cost on to the consumer, everything will cost more. Every item we buy will increase in price, including clothing, food, drink, housing, cars, gasoline, travel, fuels, wood, and raw materials. America will be the most toxic-tax place in the world to do business. Of course many businesses will flee America , taking their jobs with them.
An 80% reduction in CO2 could take us back to 1905 according to Oak Ridge National laboratory data. At that time coal and wood heated homes. New York City ’s vehicle emissions were 900,000 tons of horse manure annually. America had a population of 84 million versus 300 million today. There were no cars, jet liners, or electricity for offices, factories, schools or hospitals.
The bill was so lengthy, that chairman Henry Waxman, had not read it all. A TV clip showed a colleague asking him a question about the bill and Waxman answered, he didn’t know, but the scientists [bureaucrats] at the IPCC knew all of the details. This let the cat out of the bag that the UN had written the bill! IPCC is the “International Panel on Climate Control” and is the “political junk science division” of the corrupt UN. This bill is governmental gangsterism. “The right response to the non-problem of global warming is to have the courage to do nothing,” said Lord Christopher Monckton, former science advisor to U.K. Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher.
GOVERNMENTAL INSANITY: In addition to rationing fuels, in hopes of reducing atmospheric CO2, our government plans to pump CO2 underground (sequestering). In fact they recently started pumping at an Ethanol plant in Greensville , Ohio . It is extremely expensive to compress CO2 into a liquid and drill deep holes. It is insane! It is analogous to the pagan medical practice of bleeding the patient. It is completely worthless. The Department of Energy estimates it will cost $100 per ton to sequester CO2 and they are considering sequestering 1.5 billion tons per year. Knowing the government estimates on the costs of new programs are always too low by factors of 5 to 10, the total tax for this new program is likely to be over $ 1 Trillion! It takes a lot of energy to sequester CO2. So additional coal must be burned to provide the energy to sequester CO2. The bad news is for every ton of coal burned, 3 tons of CO2 is prodeuced and that drives the cost up even higher!
MORE GOVERNMENT INSANITY: The mentally challenged EPA want to put a tax on flatulence of cows, sheep and pigs! The EPA claims animal flatulence contains methane, which is causing global warming which will destroy our planet! The EPA is considering that the tax on dairy cows may be $175 per dairy cow, $88 on beef cattle, and $20 on each hog! Unbelievable! Can they also tax Al Gore’s gas?
CO2 is a very minor greenhouse gas responsible for only a miniscule increase of the earth’s temperature (0.03oC) in the last 150 years. During this time, the CO2 from the burning of fossil fuels added only three percent to the natural CO2 in our atmosphere. The Earth has warmed from the early 1800s (the end of “The Little Ice Age”) until 2000; due to a very active Sun. We’ve had global cooling since 2000, due to a reduction in solar output. During the last two years, we’ve had record-breaking cold temperatures and snowfalls, and glaciers have started advancing. Earlier this month (June, 2009) it snowed in New Jersey and North Dakota . The lateness of spring, with six foot snow drifts have obliterated the breeding season for geese and other migratory birds over much of the Hudson Bay area. It is even worse than the spring of 1962. The past two winters have been so cold that hundreds to thousands of people froze to death in India , China and Afghanistan . Tourist filled a Russian icebreaker expecting to see evidence of global warming were shocked to experience global cooling when they became stuck for 7 days in the Arctic ice. During the twentieth century when our Sun was more active, the increase in ocean temperatures bubbled more CO2 into our atmosphere, which increased crop production and tree growth. We need more CO2 not less, especially if global cooling continues and wipes out useable croplands in Canada , northern U.S. and Europe . CO2 is aerial fertilizer for plants and trees.

posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 10:39 AM
S & F on this one. I seriously question the timing of this bill when congress is under tremendous pressure to pass Obamacare as well. This is a classic ramrod technique by the dem. majority and it stinks to high heaven.

We have much fatter fish to fry in this nation right now. Jobless rates grow, home values plummet, exorbitant inflation is at our back door, California is completely bust, the nation is flat broke, foreign nations are devaluing the dollar etc etc.

All Obama and his handlers can think about is the master Green plan for the nation. Guess what?? It can wait. Why the rush?? Everything is rush rush rush with this Administration and I find it rather alarming. Obama has 3 1/2 more years to work on these plans especially any plan related to Green Control. The man can't control anything else so he must put his social agenda above and beyond the basic needs of this country.

posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 10:50 AM
I find it very odd that this has been relatively quiet in the MSM. This is a bill that will deliver a crippling blow to our economy (the death blow will be the healthcare plan).

Why is there no general outrage that Congress keeps voting on bills that they haven't even read??

posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 10:57 AM
reply to post by Anjin

Many will say that crippling the nation is part of the master plan of this administration. Kind of like boot camp if you will. Break you down and then slowly and methodically rebuild you into a new model of your former self.

Obama can't achieve his desire of a Marxist nation unless he has a nation that has been broken and has become desperate.

[edit on 25-6-2009 by jibeho]

posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 11:33 AM
How about they cap DEEZE NUTS???

Im SICK of the piling on of tax after tax after tax after tax.....when in reality, they can take every penny I earn and they will STILL BE IN DEBT!!!!

Sick of it!

posted on Jun, 25 2009 @ 12:04 PM
reply to post by jdub297

Oh I see. So only the companies that can afford it can go over the system. The lower companies die out and are bought, and richer companies merge to increase production.

That way all the customers go to one company, and the cap means nothing. All you get is a monopoly, screwed over people, and once they realize the cap means nothing but a monopoly, then the government moves in to nationalize it and then they own the means of production, meaning more control for the government over the resources of the people.

Great job Señor Joesack Stalina.

posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 12:44 AM
reply to post by Gorman91

Not quite, though that may be a possibility. The companies who don't produce enough carbon to need their credits will auction their credits to the highest bidder, aka larger companies, who will most definately go over their carbon limit. This sets up a nice little black market system for Obama's energy buddies.

posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 01:41 PM
reply to post by sos37

Or the big companies could do ye 'ol blackmail and threaten to stop buying it until the company merges with them.

It's obvious. A larger company wants freedom to operate. And unfoprtuantly that desire results in bad things, and less freedom for others. So as a result, the companies want milk companies to milk off of. The support from the big company to the smaller one, once bought, not only makes it more profitable, but makes a carbon tax on the merged group basically insignificant. because they'll just lower the pay for everyone communally, mainly the new smaller one merged. But because the smaller ones are specialized in small communities, they have to accept the lower pay. There's no where else to go.

Oh, monopolies, such an easy thing to create when congress passes bills that they don't read.

I said it elsewhere, we need a literary whip. I might make a Facebook group...

posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 02:18 PM
You know I sure hope so that amid the political fight going on behind the scene in Washington some Republicans will get together and use the truth to bring down the corruption taking over the politics to gain support from the people.

A group of heroes are needed and this the best time for some to emerge while fighting the mess Obama is creating in Washington as his true colors are showing on who agendas he is and the American people he is not.

I just wishing that eventually something will brake lose or someone will brake lose and start spitting the beans.

I swear that person or persons will become my heroes.

We definitely need a big war in this nation and war of will against the parties in charge.

[edit on 27-6-2009 by marg6043]

posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 06:28 PM
I'm not there yet. But I'm coming closer.

keep yourself calm for now. It's not a police state yet.

posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 06:33 PM
And people complained about Bush screwing up the country the eight years he was in office.

Sorry, but Obama is doing a better job of screwing things up and he's only been in office what, five MONTHS?

Obama and his Poltiburo think of the American Population as one thing only: An ATM. Need cash, just jack it out of the people.

posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 07:21 PM

Originally posted by bismarcksea
How about they cap DEEZE NUTS???

Im SICK of the piling on of tax after tax after tax after tax.....when in reality, they can take every penny I earn and they will STILL BE IN DEBT!!!!

Sick of it!

I figured out my payroll taxes the other month and I am making 39 cents out of every dollar. Most people just look at income taxes and don't even realize Your job has to pay an extra 1/3 of Your income in taxes just to employ you... So We the middle class are getting raped like crazy and the poor keep asking for freebies. I wonder when the straw is coming because the camels back is groaning right now under the tax load.

I told a guy last night jokingly that the south would rise again and he said he wished it would stop taking its time....

posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 08:53 PM
reply to post by jkm1864

I know your feeling.

We are right now in the 1760s. I had originally estimated it to 1750s, but Obama has accelerated it.

Obama is our king George. It will take a while to sink in, but it will at this rate. I think we may be in this time period at X2 or X3 the speed of time, somewhat.

As always, there will be loyalists. But here's the good news. Facebook polls put Obama at a much lower rate from the rest of the population. Facebook is for the youth. Therefor the youth have abandoned him already.

It only takes for these people to go into the work force in 4-6 years, and when they realize how little they make, it will be hell.

I don't know why, but the baby boomer generation seems to tired for it, and just complains, while the 80s generation seems to simply not care enough, accepting it. But this generation seems to be eager to push change... not Obama's. When they all grow up, ranging from the 90s to the 2000s, it will be an interesting thing to watch.

I went on youtube and here to find people to debate this new bill over. I couldn't find anyone. This generation seems just fed up.

These are changing times indeed.

So I wish, no, beg you all to wait. Revolution may not be needed. Reserve your hatred in words only and just see what this generation does.

posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 09:50 PM
While the rest of the world is wondering what kind of pre-historic country the US must be, still running their electrical grid off of primarily Oil and Coal...

... I'm wondering one thing.

Why call it a declaration of war when there's no shots fired?

Have you cheapened your own language to the point that even the worst of all threats... is merely crying wolf?

I'm a man of my word. If I utter a threat, I carry through. If I make promises, I keep them.

... it's clear to me now that the right wing in your country doesn't hold to the same values.

If you're going to make threats of war, then either do something... or place your obese backside firmly back in the chair from whence it came.

posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 09:52 PM
so where is Benvolent Heteric and Grover and the rest of the Obamatrons on this board? I would like to hear how they justify this madness and how they could possibly defend this maniacal, powergrabbing president they voted for and were so enamored with...

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