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New cards explain NYC street stops by police

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posted on May, 1 2009 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by Ben Niceknowinya
 


So BN ...

What think you of the fact that the cops keep a database of the innocent?

Surely we find ourselves at the foot of the proverbial slope.




posted on May, 1 2009 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 


I think the reason that I have a problem with this so much is because I have never been arrested. I have no criminal record, but I still have to deal with the fact that a cop can stop me and search me while I am enjoying a day out. I have given no indication that I am a threat, yet I get treated like one.. Actually, thats exactly why I get so mad over this.



posted on May, 1 2009 @ 08:59 PM
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What would make policing a lot easier , is if we were just all born in some form of penitentiary , and spent the rest of our lives trying to get out `on good behaviour`.

" I`m willing to give up some of my liberty to protect my freedom "

........ it`s the easiest thing to do !

It all about making it easy ..... isn`t it ?











posted on May, 1 2009 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by UmbraSumus
What would make policing a lot easier , is if we were just all born in some form of penitentiary , and spent the rest of our lives trying to get out ...


We're already there my friend.



posted on May, 1 2009 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog
Surely we find ourselves at the foot of the proverbial slope.


Nah, we once stood at the pinnacle of hope, but now look down into a chasm of chaos and uncertainty.

I think it was Orson Wells who said: "Atleast when you're in the gutter, you can always look up at the stars". That something to look forward to anyway


They can take all the liberties they want from me, but the more they strip away, the more i become a wounded animal in the corner.

They(TPTB) need to understand that the more they beat down the subservient collective, the more they are underestimating the true essence of humanity: survival. It may, just may come back with a vengeance and bite 'em on the bum.

Perhaps we need a good purge of society with the swine flu, to create a blank page in a new book, where our true destiny lies with the stars and space exploration.

We are all but star dust, blowing in the ethereal winds of time.



posted on May, 1 2009 @ 09:02 PM
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Just checking in to add that I would be amongst the many who think these cards are totally stupid.
Like a bank robber needs to hand the teller note? Just spit it out and own up to your intent.



posted on May, 1 2009 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by PrisonerOfSociety
Ben Niceknowinya, i was just wondering if your avatar is a close up of the goatse picture?



well, atleast you made it clear what you're "really" thinking of.....gaping a**holes hu? Nice.


WoW.

That's deep man. Very profound and appropiate.....but wait! incase your brain wants you to be a little more constructive I have a link that might interest you.

www.lego.com...

If you click "play" they might some fun kid games for you. Enjoy.

And yes you can have candy and stay up late 2.


Schrod, thanx for the discussion. I enjoyed it.

Cheers.!



posted on May, 1 2009 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by PrisonerOfSociety
 


Prisoner, your quote about seeing stars whilst laying in the gutter came from Oscar Wilde, not Orson Welles (correct century, wrong author...same initials).

My favorite from Wilde, on his deathbed, "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do."

Still, as long as we keep our heads and remember our rights, we shan't lose them.

edit = DDTS (dyslexic drunk typing syndrome).

[edit on 5/1/0909 by weedwhacker]



posted on May, 1 2009 @ 09:11 PM
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reply to post by UmbraSumus
 


I always thought the other way; be born free, but upon conviction you're sent to an offshore oil rig-esque penitentiary, where you earn kudos points for community service building offshore wind-farms or snake generators.

p.s. forgot to post this amusing video of police trying to harass a brummie in England, brilliant:




posted on May, 1 2009 @ 09:25 PM
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ok I read about 2/3rd's of this thread and am horrified.Stopping some one for bloody knuckles, OK sure if you have a guy that was badly beaten in the bathroom 30 feet away sure, I can see that.... However, without someone that has been assaulted nearby and RECENTLY, it's NOT "reasonable" to stop and question them.
Having a backpack for is not a reason unless they have an ACTIVE alert or "BOLO" for a specific (tall, short, thin, fat) suspect. to stop random folks because they have a backpack, Not reasonable.

I have the best solution to avoid crime, and unreasonable searches



Stay Home (it's cheap too)


(SP)

[edit on 1-5-2009 by thedigirati]



posted on May, 1 2009 @ 11:06 PM
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Wow! You think this is bad wait until an undercover LAPD Officer walks up to you and hands you a business card that says "The person who just gave you this card is an Officer of the LAPD, please lay face down on the ground immediately, you are under arrest, and armed officers have their weapons trained on you, lethal force may be used if you fail to cooperate and follow these instructions"

New Yorkers sure have it easy!



posted on May, 1 2009 @ 11:56 PM
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I firmly believe a search is in order if there is probable cause . The person matches a description of a person who committed a crime. There needs to be some form a verifiable probable cause to initiate a search . If there isnt it is just a random fishing expedition. Probable cause a crime has been committed not one that may or may not be committed.

As I see this the search criteria is way too wide it leaves the door open , Wide OPEN for random searches . If the police think that's all they need and can search you . Actions consistent with carrying a weapon what are the actions ? Where I live we have a concealed gun license . If they use a jacket and a under arm holster or a ankle holster you would NEVER KNOW if they didn't tell you . If it is a small frame 38 you will never see the bulge either . This just gives them a open door to random search the general population who will be inconvenienced by this more than actually catching crooks.

I have a friend who carries a Neural blocker (unsure of spelling ) on his waist to block pain from sever back injuries caused by stepping on a mine any time he goes to a bar or public transportation he gets the once over till they find out the bulge is a medical device rather than a weapon under his clothes . Also it can affect his gait making him walk funny . Do you think he gets tired of getting frisked ?

If you ever really worked with people of color or made close friends with them . You would have heard in some cities you can stopped for DWB (Driving while black or brown )or DWM (Driving while Mexican) the terms came about from racial profiling. You will find the joke really are true .

After being around a correctional institution doing their maintenance and using their trustees for labor . I see the disparity in sentencing and stops . The racial profile of the prisoners was not the profile of the county 95% of the inmates were of color . The county profile is 50 % white 30 native American 15% Hispanic 5 % black , Asian and others.

Humans have a habit of pushing the limits of any and every rule made . And police are no exception to the rule . And most certainly there will be police who will abuse this free rein they have . Until either they get sued or we vote their bosses out and vote in candidates who value our Constitution.

And I would find it terribly offensive if I was stopped and frisked for no reason other that I looked a certain way or I was carrying a back pack . And i have lived in a city with very high violent crime rates and in the war zone part of it . And I still feel this way .

For those of you who think this is fine and dandy you are willing to give up freedom for security . But alas you will lose both if this trend continues . Personally I wish to keep my freedom .



posted on May, 2 2009 @ 05:43 AM
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Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic
 


I believe you are referring to 'proactive policing'. Can you explain how that is different from "protection" or "protecting the innocent? "Protection" implies the prevention of physical harm or loss of property. In order to prevent crime, one must be proactive. This is as opposed to being 'reactive', which is acting after the physical harm or loss of property has occurred. I, for one, would rather the Police be proactive in preventing my being killed by a bomb on a subway, than waiting until I am dead to try to figure out who had caused my death. But, that's just me.


If you're more worried about security then freedom, might I suggest you vote for the following:
-Random pedestrian and car stops and searches.
-Checkpoints at the perimeter of every town where you will be stopped and asked for your papers.
-Random home searches.
-Background checks for everyone.
-Financial records searches.
-Credit card purchases searched.
-Strip searches.
-Installation of chips into your vehicles and yourself so you can be tracked everywhere.
-Interrogations of anyone and everyone. And just to make sure nobody is lying, they'll be tortured during interrogation just to absolutely make sure YOU ARE SAFE !

As example, you know how we can prevent any plane from ever being hijacked again? It's simple really and 100% effective. Every passenger will be stripped and placed in cages and handcuffed to the floor of the cage before the flight lifts off and released one by one when the flight lands. You will be perfectly secure


The reality is, we cannot have a secure AND free society. I'd prefer to have a free society as the Constitution dictates.



posted on May, 2 2009 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by thedigirati
ok I read about 2/3rd's of this thread and am horrified.Stopping some one for bloody knuckles, OK sure if you have a guy that was badly beaten in the bathroom 30 feet away sure, I can see that.... However, without someone that has been assaulted nearby and RECENTLY, it's NOT "reasonable" to stop and question them.
Having a backpack for is not a reason unless they have an ACTIVE alert or "BOLO" for a specific (tall, short, thin, fat) suspect. to stop random folks because they have a backpack, Not reasonable.

I have the best solution to avoid crime, and unreasonable searches



Stay Home (it's cheap too)


(SP)

[edit on 1-5-2009 by thedigirati]


I appreciate your attitude toward this particular unconstitutional behavior. I would just add one thing. The jews stayed home in nazi germany but it didn't save them either.

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."
Pastor Martin Niemöller



posted on May, 2 2009 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by bismarcksea
Wow, the cops actually try to explain your constitutional right to unreasonable search and seizure and dim people make this into a racial issue?

Cry me a river for all the oppressed minorities in the country when it comes to the cops actually explaining what "reasonable search and seizure" means!!

I'll give you guys a little hint to why I have zero sympathy:
If the alarm is going off at the jewelry store and someone is RUNNING away from the scene.....THEY JUST MIGHT BE THE BAD GUY!!!!!!

It doesn't matter what color of skin they have.

And as far as the "people of color" complaining about being harassed by the Poe Poe....STOP COMMITTING CRIMES ASSHOLES!!!! Or at least be smarter about it so that you don't get caught!

I'm white as white can be and my people where seriously oppressed when they first got off the boat. We might as well have been slaves as we built the transcontinental railroads (along with the chinese) and other infrastructure projects going on in the country at the same time.

WE Irish lived in the ghettos and slums too. Don't give me that BS that we blended in better because we where "white". Even to this day, when you hear an Irish name you think to yourself "Hey hey for St Patties day!". Luckily for us, that is about the extent of the stereotypes we have kept for the ages. Back when the Irish where first immigrating, it was VERY bad for them!

But I digress, my point is: My people rose up and overcame the ghettos and slums, I just want to know....why can't they?

Is it human nature that their always be someone at the bottom of the social rung?
I mean, seriously all you bleeding heart liberals....I charge you to INVITE a ghetto rat to live in your house for just 1 week.

You will understand why they are in the slums before the week is through....TRUST ME.
I'm not saying that there aren't any "good ole Irish folk" in the ghetto. But I can say with confidence that there is NOT a disproportionate percentage of our "racial" population living the ghetto life.


As far as this issue goes, I am GLAD the cops are handing out these cards that set a precedent and "limit" to what they are looking for.
Message is crystal clear to me!
Don't carry weapons in their fare city and don't be committing crimes.
If you don't like living in a DeMilitarized Zone, its your right to GTF out.

I am also for ACCOUNTABILITY for police! They need to remember WHO they work for.


What he said though I'm not Irish. Thanks for the ba*ls ahead of time.

Know your rights and don't give them away.


[edit on 1-5-2009 by bismarcksea]



posted on May, 2 2009 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by Lostinthedarkness

I have a friend who carries a Neural blocker (unsure of spelling ) on his waist to block pain from sever back injuries caused by stepping on a mine any time he goes to a bar or public transportation he gets the once over till they find out the bulge is a medical device rather than a weapon under his clothes . Also it can affect his gait making him walk funny . Do you think he gets tired of getting frisked ?



"Headline: NYC Subway bombed today. 36 people killed, 7 severely injured."

"Here we are with Officer Bradley, who was on subway patrol during the bombing. Officer Bradley, did you notice anything suspicious before the blast?

"Well, I noticed a guy with a bulge in his clothes, but I just assumed it was something unimportant... I mean, it's just a bulge... I didn't know what it was... I'd have actually had to search the guy to find out what it was, but people deserve their privacy. I don't feel guilty at all for all of the dead people, because the bomber deserved his privacy. After all, he could have just been a guy with a medical device! How should I know? We have to respect everyone. Would you have expected me to take him to the side and search him? NO WAY! If we started searching people with potential bombs, then we'd start searching people who didn't have bombs! That's just not right, to search people who don't have bombs so we shouldn't search anyone because we can never know who does have the bomb! You know the old saying, "Those who give up freedom for security deserve neither". If we give up the liberty to walk around with bulges in our clothes, then we don't deserve liberty, or security!

Newscaster: "You are a complete idiot."

Officer Bradley: "Hey lady, when they came for the communist, I didn't speak up because I wasn't a ...

Newscaster: "Shut up, moron."



posted on May, 2 2009 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by logician magician
"Headline: NYC Subway bombed today. 36 people killed, 7 severely injured."


Hem, ok, nice hypothetical.

Shall we discuss the the actual casualties suffered by Americans defending those rights which you so easily trivialize.



posted on May, 2 2009 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by thedigirati
ok I read about 2/3rd's of this thread and am horrified.Stopping some one for bloody knuckles, OK sure if you have a guy that was badly beaten in the bathroom 30 feet away sure, I can see that.... However, without someone that has been assaulted nearby and RECENTLY, it's NOT "reasonable" to stop and question them.

[edit on 1-5-2009 by thedigirati]


How are the cops supposed to know if someone has been assaulted nearby and recently?

New York city has an average of 7 reported forcible rapes per day.

If someone takes you around the corner, in an alley, beats you and rapes you, leaving you unconscious.... and then walks by a cop 10 minutes later with bloody knuckles and a scratched face... the cop shouldn't do anything. Bloody knuckles and scratched face doesn't mean anything at all. It would be unreasonable to search him.

Actually, it wouldn't. The cop doesn't think like you. The cop has a duty to protect society, you don't. You just have a duty to whine and complain when things don't go your way. You have a duty to whine and complain when a cop questions you, or asks you for your name. You have the delusion that you should waste societies time by trying to act like a martyr for criminal privacy.

You don't realize that criminals can act just like you and whine about privacy. You don't realize that cops can't always tell the difference.

You don't realize these games will lead to laws which make interaction with police officers much more strict.

... You don't realize that your kind, who do not corporate with cops, lead to the "police state" that everyone sees.

You don't realize that when you have a bunch of idiots not taking accountability for themselves and assisting those who assist the public, that law makers have no choice but to put an end to the game where you, and criminals alike say, "Oh you don't need to know my name copper! I'm innocent. I have a right to privacy!"

You don't realize that when the criminals (for guilt) AND the citizens (for privacy) don't oblige the request of the police that NOBODY obliges the request of the police.

You don't realize that when NOBODY obliges the request of the police, that they will have no choice but to make EVERYBODY oblige the request of the police

... You just don't realize that you've made your very own police state.



posted on May, 2 2009 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by logician magician
"Headline: NYC Subway bombed today. 36 people killed, 7 severely injured."


Hem, ok, nice hypothetical.

Shall we discuss the the actual casualties suffered by Americans defending those rights which you so easily trivialize.


I've defended them myself as a United States Marine, and I understand that they are not trivial for everyone else. I believe it is you who believes that it is trivial, as in, "no matter", that someone should be able to walk around with a large bulky hidden device under their clothes.

There is nothing trivial about that. There is nothing trivial about someone having a potential bomb under their clothes.

There is, however, something trivial about ignoring it.



posted on May, 2 2009 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by logician magician

Originally posted by Lostinthedarkness

I have a friend who carries a Neural blocker (unsure of spelling ) on his waist to block pain from sever back injuries caused by stepping on a mine any time he goes to a bar or public transportation he gets the once over till they find out the bulge is a medical device rather than a weapon under his clothes . Also it can affect his gait making him walk funny . Do you think he gets tired of getting frisked ?



"Headline: NYC Subway bombed today. 36 people killed, 7 severely injured."

"Here we are with Officer Bradley, who was on subway patrol during the bombing. Officer Bradley, did you notice anything suspicious before the blast?

"Well, I noticed a guy with a bulge in his clothes, but I just assumed it was something unimportant... I mean, it's just a bulge... I didn't know what it was... I'd have actually had to search the guy to find out what it was, but people deserve their privacy. I don't feel guilty at all for all of the dead people, because the bomber deserved his privacy. After all, he could have just been a guy with a medical device! How should I know? We have to respect everyone. Would you have expected me to take him to the side and search him? NO WAY! If we started searching people with potential bombs, then we'd start searching people who didn't have bombs! That's just not right, to search people who don't have bombs so we shouldn't search anyone because we can never know who does have the bomb! You know the old saying, "Those who give up freedom for security deserve neither". If we give up the liberty to walk around with bulges in our clothes, then we don't deserve liberty, or security!

Newscaster: "You are a complete idiot."

Officer Bradley: "Hey lady, when they came for the communist, I didn't speak up because I wasn't a ...

Newscaster: "Shut up, moron."




Oh give me a break !!!!

The reality is we must choose either to live in a FREE society or a SECURE society. You can't have both.

You're advocating taking away only a little of our Constitutional Freedoms. If you can make an argument for that to get us a little more secure, you can follow the same logic my taking all our Freedoms away to make us even more secure.

So do you want to live in a cage or be free? Can't have it both ways.



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