What has changed?

One point may I? We have forgotten that the first holy war was christians agains the barbarians of the middle east. Has anybody forgotten about the crusades. Christianity stated the holy wars not the islamics.

Originally posted by Satyr
Religion is not the sole reason they're attacking us. If you think so, you need to do a little studying. We've pretended to be friends with many of these people, then turned and stabbed them in the back. You can only do that so many times before someone gets pissed off.

I do not think it is the sole reason, but even you have to admit that it plays a part. For the most part the people themselves do not suffer or prosper as a result of our being friends with their government. That is especially true in the middle east.

I labeled you a hypocrite because you used the "Well, they do it!" argument in defense of those who use religious comments in reference to this war. If you fail to see the significance of the two, I'm afraid I can't explain it in such a way that you'll comprehend.

I was attempting to make the point that they are more extreme in their use of words in the religous context of the war to counter your point. Their god says he/she will punish us for being infidels. None of the christian forms of God are willing to condemn someone for their beliefs, just the terrorists skewed view of Islam

Originally posted by marg6043
One point may I? We have forgotten that the first holy war was christians agains the barbarians of the middle east. Has anybody forgotten about the crusades. Christianity stated the holy wars not the islamics.

The crusades were started as a result of Chrisitans trying to get to their holy lands, but being refused by the Muslims.

The muslims were the first to lauch a attack for religous purposes.

Originally posted by Satyr
They attack when they have been screwed with, influenced, forced to do things they don't want to do, invaded repeatedly, when their enemies have been our friends because it was convenient...etc. That last one is probably the biggest reason.

They attack becuase they see us as a threat. We preach of equality and tolerance, which is unacceptable to them.

Have you ever been to a Muslim country? Do you see how they treat women just because they were born that way? Now imagine how they feel about someone who chooses to live a lifestyle that is a threat to the one they live.

Coolhand you are right that this people hide behind their beliefs to wagger war agaings christianity but I disagee that the christian god is that good. Christianity has done worse deeds throught history in the name of the christian god too.

Originally posted by COOL HAND
I was attempting to make the point that they are more extreme in their use of words in the religous context of the war to counter your point. Their god says he/she will punish us for being infidels. None of the christian forms of God are willing to condemn someone for their beliefs, just the terrorists skewed view of Islam

Do what??? That's the very basis of religion!!! You're going to hell if you don't believe and obey! Where have you been?????

Originally posted by COOL HAND
They attack becuase they see us as a threat. We preach of equality and tolerance, which is unacceptable to them.

Honestly, it's unacceptable to me too. You know why? Because it's a big #ing LIE! Maybe they see that too, eh?

Have you ever been to a Muslim country? Do you see how they treat women just because they were born that way? Now imagine how they feel about someone who chooses to live a lifestyle that is a threat to the one they live.

Have you ever studied American history? It wasn't all that long ago we had some pretty bad ways too. Christ sake! Women couldn't even vote! They had no rights, except the right not to be beaten with any stick of bigger diameter than your thumb, and that one had to be added in! Why? Because it was ok to beat the crap out of women back then!
We changed, in due time. They will too, I'm sure of it. Although, their changes might not even resemble ours. They're not like us.

[Edited on 4-26-2004 by Satyr]

Originally posted by Satyr

Originally posted by COOL HAND
I was attempting to make the point that they are more extreme in their use of words in the religous context of the war to counter your point. Their god says he/she will punish us for being infidels. None of the christian forms of God are willing to condemn someone for their beliefs, just the terrorists skewed view of Islam

Do what??? That's the very basis of religion!!! You're going to hell if you don't believe and obey! Where have you been?????

Yes, but where else (but the terrorist skewed version of Islam) does it say that God him/herself will personally punish you for your beliefs?

al-Qaeda attacks us because bin Laden and his cronies have been paid out of money stolen from the U.N. oil-for-food program and they have access to a programmed reservoir of people ready to die as martyrs.

Who stole the money?

Maurice Strong: Chief financial officer of the U.N., a sworn enemy of the Anglo-American "Coalition of the Willing" and the increasingly-paranoid champion of the fascist bankers backing the New World Order (NWO).

Experiment: Count the number of hits you get with a Web search for "Maurice Strong" and "NWO".

Check out Maurice's links to Benon Sevan, David Rockefeller, Henry Kissinger, General Alexander Haig, John [Heinz] Kerry, George Soros and the Bilderbergers.

Take Maurice and the NWO-racketeering activities of the U.N. out of the story and you will have a happy ending.

Try collecting the facts guys, it's getting boring having to plough through the prejudices and, as Blaise Pascal wrote, "We have a moral obligation to think hard."

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Yes, but where else (but the terrorist skewed version of Islam) does it say that God him/herself will personally punish you for your beliefs?

Ummmm, how about the part where he casts you into hell instead of letting you into heaven?

I do not think it is the sole reason, but even you have to admit that it plays a part. For the most part the people themselves do not suffer or prosper as a result of our being friends with their government. That is especially true in the middle east.

They're just like any other religious fanatics. Everything that happens, or they do, can be contributed to, or are the doings of their god. There isn't a single thing that can happen in a religious fanatic's life that can't be contributed to their god. "God" always allows them good fortune, or wants them to do bad things for the sake of good. They can't tie their shoes without thanking Allah for the ability to do so. In that case, I strongly believe their reference to religion is secondary. Like anyone who chooses that path, they don't believe in coincidence, nor do they believe in themselves. It's all "god this" and "god that". You see it here, too. People say things like, "Children are the greatest gifts god created." To me, that's ridiculous! God didn't create #! You got knocked up, bitch! God had nothing to do with it!

You don't think that our being "friends" with Israel has had a negative effect on other countries? You don't think Iran (or maybe the Kurds) suffered when we were "friends" with Iraq? Man, you really don't see straight. What have you been smoking?
Actually, just the act of aiding one of those countries, and not aiding another is enough to piss one of them off...especially since they've been warring since the beginning of history. Luckily, we were smart enough to avoid it, eh? [Extreme sarcasm!]

[Edited on 4-26-2004 by Satyr]

Yes the christian god in US. will punish you if you don't believe in him, I mean president Bush.

Here's an example of what I was speaking of above...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This type of person can't see anything without contributing all to "god". If he pulls a booger out of his nostril, he thanks god for the ability to do so.

[Edited on 4-26-2004 by Satyr]

Originally posted by Satyr
We changed, in due time. They will too, I'm sure of it. Although, their changes might not even resemble ours. They're not like us.
[Edited on 4-26-2004 by Satyr]

They will never change so long as their religion forbids it.

If it was purely societal issue, the life of a woman in a Muslim country would have progressed at the same rate as the Western World.

Originally posted by Satyr
Here's an example of what I was speaking of above...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This type of person can't see anything without contributing all to "god".

If he pulls a booger out of his nostril, he thanks god for the ability to do so.

[Edited on 4-26-2004 by Satyr]

Are you attempting to imply that anyone who believes in a religion is a slave to the deity at the head of the religion and that he believes in pre-determination?

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by Satyr
Here's an example of what I was speaking of above...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This type of person can't see anything without contributing all to "god".

If he pulls a booger out of his nostril, he thanks god for the ability to do so.

[Edited on 4-26-2004 by Satyr]

Are you attempting to imply that anyone who believes in a religion is a slave to the deity at the head of the religion and that he believes in pre-determination?

IMO, yes. Although, their behavior suggests the exact opposite. Otherwise, why would there be a need to pray, if everything is already predestine?
But my point is more that, some people are incapable of contributing anything in their life to anything but god.

[Edited on 4-26-2004 by Satyr]

Originally posted by Satyr
IMO, yes. But my point is more that, some people are incapable of contributing anything in their life to anything but god.
[Edited on 4-26-2004 by Satyr]

That is where the terrorist come in. They take advantage of that and use those people to further their efforts against the "infidels."

Without changing the post. Satyr What in the world was that.? Is he for real? You don't have to answer.

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by Satyr
IMO, yes. But my point is more that, some people are incapable of contributing anything in their life to anything but god.
[Edited on 4-26-2004 by Satyr]

That is where the terrorist come in. They take advantage of that and use those people to further their efforts against the "infidels."

And American religious freaks don't? It's more like they're going to do whatever they end up doing anyway, while preaching that god wanted them to. But, they're going to contribute whatever the outcome to either god or satan....or whatever. They have very narrow, one track minds. Every religious extremist does. That's the one thing they all have in common.

Originally posted by marg6043
Without changing the post. Satyr What in the world was that.? Is he for real? You don't have to answer.

Some people are to be pittied, eh?

[Edited on 4-26-2004 by Satyr]

Originally posted by Satyr
And American religious freaks don't? It's more like they're going to do whatever they end up doing anyway, while preaching that god wanted them to. But, they're going to contribute whatever the outcome to either god or satan....or whatever. They have very narrow, one track minds. Every religious extremist does. That's the one thing they all have in common.

When was the last time that you saw American religous freaks killing someone on the direct order of their God???

The Immams use that tactic on their followers all of the time. Allah tells them to tell the followers to kill in his name and then enjoy the eternal rewards, so long as there is no pork involved.

Let's see. Wasn't there an exorcism (or two?) pretty recently that killed a few children? Ignorance in action, it is. It really hasn't been that long since the dark ages, actually. That's not the point, though. You're trying to say that the American religion is any better than theirs? My GOD! (figuratively speaking) You just don't get it! There is no such thing as a good religion!

BTW, what do you think of the Bohemian Grove?

[Edited on 4-26-2004 by Satyr]

Believing on the after life rewards is what make this people so fierce and that give them a reason to die the faster, In history they are not the first group to believe on this, the viking were the same, dying in battle was and honor and better passage to vallaha, Christianity does not believe in afterlife so we are really more afraid of dying that anything else.