TA-THREATS: Islamic Leaders Call for Jihad in Europe

Originally posted by DeusEx
It's only in recent history that the East, and Islam in particular, has struck at the west.

Wrong, the first thing that Muhammed did after Muslims were converted into Islam was a crusade to bring Islam to Europe by the sword. The first crusade ever done was under the banner of Islam, for over 600 years parts of Europe were taken by the newly converted Muslims, including Spain, france, and Italy. Then the remaining Christian forces gathered and fought back these Muslim forces and began what is known as the Christian crusades.

Since Muhammed did use force to bring Islam to Europe, no matter what some moderate clerics say that "Islam is a peaceful religion," there will always be those that will follow the actions of Muhammed and what it says in the Q'uran to kill unbelievers.

It is true that in the name of Christianity many attrocities were done also, and there seems to be one parable in the bible in which Jesus seems to be violent, but he did not go with a sword conquering and preaching.

This is one statement by Osama Bin Laden.

"Praise be to Allah, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book: "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said: I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but Allah is worshipped, Allah who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders."

Excerpts taken from.
www.fas.org...

This other link explains early Islam in Italy and other parts of Europe as they continued to try to take over all of Europe to bring it under the rule of Islam. Not all Muslims are bad people, but this doesn't mean that Islam, or the Q'uran does not condone the killings of nonbelievers. The last statement pretty much sums it all.

" Since that time, however, the road of tolerance among Christians and Moslems� winding as it has, through the Crusades and subsequent centuries of strife and misunderstanding� has been a rocky one. If it has now come full circle, welcome back."

Excerpt taken from.
www.geocities.com...

Originally posted by disturbence.... and you other smallminded easymanipulated #s!!! how can you stand there and act like it was "the muslims" that drew first blood? when its US actions in the middle east for the last 50 that have brought this understandible hatred for the states. as teknik (from his own point of view and with diffrent words...) said, when people are in desparation they do grab what ever banner they can find to make a stand, and its often radicals that stand ready with banners for the masses. the propaganda machine (and dont even dare saying its not) in the US is repeating the same battle cries it used under mccarthyism against the socialism. there taking a few to represent the masses and judging islam as a hole.
[Edited on 26-4-2004 by disturbence]

Anyone who believes that Bin Laden or the clerics are holy warriors who have the best interest of their people and religion in mind has fallen victim to the Islamic Extremists own propaganda. I find it interesting that these so-called iman and mullahs with their supposed moral outrage for the great Satan, never do their own dirty work. It's always easier to send the uneducated and disillusioned to murder and kill. To imply that we're getting a little of own back proves other's points. If Muslim extremists think all Europeans and Americans are oppressors is it any wonder that all Muslims are viewed as extremist?

Muaddib,

Thanks for posting information on the crusades.
It seems that over and over again, I hear or read
people make comments to the effect that
"The Crusades" were only offensive in nature.

Islamsists know today, that lots of non-muslims
believe that as a fact, and are in some ways
"sympathetic" to the Muslim "plight". They capitalize on this. It's great PR for them.

Bleys,

DO you think people ( in general) have any sense of self preservation these days?

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by DeusEx
It's only in recent history that the East, and Islam in particular, has struck at the west.

Wrong, the first thing that Muhammed did after Muslims were converted into Islam was a crusade to bring Islam to Europe by the sword. The first crusade ever done was under the banner of Islam, for over 600 years parts of Europe were taken by the newly converted Muslims, including Spain, france, and Italy. Then the remaining Christian forces gathered and fought back these Muslim forces and began what is known as the Christian crusades.

Since Muhammed did use force to bring Islam to Europe, no matter what some moderate clerics say that "Islam is a peaceful religion," there will always be those that will follow the actions of Muhammed and what it says in the Q'uran to kill unbelievers.

It is true that in the name of Christianity many attrocities were done also, and there seems to be one parable in the bible in which Jesus seems to be violent, but he did not go with a sword conquering and preaching.

This is one statement by Osama Bin Laden.

"Praise be to Allah, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book: "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said: I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but Allah is worshipped, Allah who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders."

Excerpts taken from.
www.fas.org...

This other link explains early Islam in Italy and other parts of Europe as they continued to try to take over all of Europe to bring it under the rule of Islam. Not all Muslims are bad people, but this doesn't mean that Islam, or the Q'uran does not condone the killings of nonbelievers. The last statement pretty much sums it all.

" Since that time, however, the road of tolerance among Christians and Moslems� winding as it has, through the Crusades and subsequent centuries of strife and misunderstanding� has been a rocky one. If it has now come full circle, welcome back."

Excerpt taken from.
www.geocities.com...

Salaam alykum all,
Sorry Brother i would like to point out that Muhammad(pbuh) died shrotly after he took over Mecca (Without a bloody rebenge). But you must be talking about the Muslims that went to Europe to spread the word of Islam, then i hve no problem with it, but i have a problem with people being forced by a sword to subbmit themselves to the One True God, as a convert to Islam i find it very hard to believe. I find it hard to believe that a person can be forced to pray 5 times a day by a sword. If thats the case then these people are not Muslims because Faith comes before practise, its very important in Islam to have faith. "I bear witeness that there is only One god worthy of worship and that is GOD, I bear witeness that Muhammad(pbuh) is the slave and Messanger of GOD", that is what you have to say to become a Muslim, but you must truely believe it.

Salaam

Guerilla

Mohammed raid, plundered, killed, massacred, made wives out of slaves as he was preaching Islam, expanding the rule of the religion throughout the lands. Mohammed even went against many of the mandates of the book he wrote. Strange that the same person who began a religion will go against the same mandates that were suposedly given to him by some divine force.

"Mohammed the Prosperous

Mohammed preyed upon caravans with his men. Bukhari Hadith 3:495 p.280 says, "When Allah made the prophet wealthy through conquests..." 1/5 of all spoils of war was put into treasury, and Sahih Muslim 2:2348 says that Mohammed�s family all had a share out of that. The Muslims first looting is known as the Nakhla Raid. During the traditional month of truce, his followers ambushed a caravan, killing one enslaving the rest, and taking the plunder. Mohammed himself led the second raid at Badr. Mohammed added to his wealth by attacking the Jewish settlement of Khaibar. He and his loyal followers also got the plunder and wives (Mohammed needed another wife?) of the 700-1,000 Jewish men they beheaded after they surrendered."

Excerpt taken from.
www.muslimhope.com...

In order for us to understand the origin and purpose of any faith, you only have to take a look at what the founder of that religion or way of life did.

Sorry the US screwed over the Arabs? Do you remember there was a WWII and a cold war with USSR that demanded that the US and W. Europe manipulate the Middle East in order to defeat Germany and then the USSR. Prior to that I don't remember any interference from the US. Sorry the Islamic countries were pawns in the big game (but so were many other non-islamic countries) and always will be as long as everyone needs oil. No oil=nothing to fight over.

So now they are pissed off and want to kill everyone because A) they are poor and really don't have much compared to the West B) they are poorly educated C) have never had true democracy D) do not want a separation of church/state (mosque/state) and E) are male dominated societies that cherish bravado, blood, glory and apparently stupidity!

Religion is their only hope and they are passionate about it. They do not want to be "domesticated", they look to external figures for happiness (unreal heroes)instead of the internal soul for happiness (the real self) and what happiness have they achieved with this mentality?

I'm sorry but Islam must be misguided and flawed if it contiues to breed so much hate. Where are the other islamic leaders that condemn this behaviour? Where are the marches by other muslims to protest Osama's hate? I see Christians both for and against the Iraq war and protesting Israel's heavy handed tactics...yet the muslims do nothing to condemn the terrorists.

I fear for my muslim friends for I fear there will be no turning back soon and the West will eventually have to ban Islam and attack the Arabs...and pathetically the militant Arabs won't care for they will believe to the end that their way is the only way. The Nazi's made the same mistake.

Those of the true Islamic faith have a war to fight but it is not with the West, it is with those that hypnotize the disillusioned with hate and war. Hitler did it to a country and now I fear Osama (dead or alive) has started another but to a whole faith.

It is time the West prepares itself to make some very hard and probably distasteful decisions. Christians will soon pick up the sword also and I fear this time there will be little mercy towards a people that supports terrorists and their innocent killings.

No God I would worship would promote such foolishness, I see only people fighting...not Gods.

.

Once again we have extremists on both sides laying the full blame of the conflict at the feet of the extremists of the other side.

Too many people have too little tolerance for the beliefs of others. Too many followers of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam have held onto the grudges of past, blaming the generations that have followed for the crimes of their ancestors.

That's like Israel declaring war on Germany today because of the Nazis' atrocities in WWII. Or the US bombing Tokyo as payback for Pearl Harbor yet again. Or Egypt invading Italy and labeling it as a retaliatory strike against the Roman Empire.

None of these actions would make sense to anyone with any kind of sane view of the world. Yet when religion is involved, sanity and common sense often go out the window.

but the terrorist will leave spain alone, right.......they will won't they? (tounge firmly planted in cheek)

Originally posted by TheDemonHunter
Once again we have extremists on both sides laying the full blame of the conflict at the feet of the extremists of the other side....
.... Yet when religion is involved, sanity and common sense often go out the window.

You need to go check a style book.
It appears your composition is in error:
You used the words 'religion' and 'sanity' in the same sentence.
(Does ATS give points for that sort of thing?)

Seriously,
this is only a symptom.
The truly pathetic who let other ________
(imams, preachers,rabbis, priests, or whatever other 'holy_MAN' you care to insert here)
govern their life philosophy deserve nothing less than the extinction they strive for.

Darwin gets proved correct yet again.

Those of us who regard this as evolution at work are well-advised to stay clear of the construction zone.

"Beam me up, _now_, Scotty."

Illmatic, I appreciate what you said here:

No Islamic iman or cleric has the authority to launch a Jihad against anyone. It's against the laws of the Noble Qur'an.

You are speaking using the voice of the moderate Muslim who understands the insanity of all this. However, you aren't realizing that these Fatwas ARE indeed recognized, respected and followed by many people. There will be people who are going to follow this call to arms and will rise up against Europeans (including European civilians) for NO personal reason. These may be people who themselves have no gripes against the European governments or people but will take such actions because their leaders, their "religious" leaders have told them to do it. This is very very disturbing and I have to wonder what will happen as a result of this.

Why is it such a difficult concept for these people to understand. By issuing fatwas like this all that happens is the common European is led to fear and dislike his Muslim neighbor because of "what might happen." What does this accomplish for these fake mullahs? A further alienation of cultures?

This is a tragedy because the second this was announced I'd be willing to bet at least half of the citizens of Europe got a pang of fear in their belly and the thoughts of "Can I trust my Muslim neighbors?" must be running rampant.

Originally posted by Djarums
Why is it such a difficult concept for these people to understand. By issuing fatwas like this all that happens is the common European is led to fear and dislike his Muslim neighbor because of "what might happen." What does this accomplish for these fake mullahs? A further alienation of cultures?

This is what I don't understand either. It seems that most of their tactics and statements are designed to make everyone hate them as much as possible. Do they not understand that in the Western Culture, when something scares you badly enough, you don't let it dominate you, you get friends, hunt it down and kill it?

I've seen some post lately from a few in Europe that say dispite what the govenments are doing, the people are getting kinda worried about Islam and the future. I've said it often now. It's coming your way. Pick a side. It's on.