On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs - Very Important Read for All

reply to post by Jenna


I can completely agree with what you said; however, in defense of some (not all) of the circumstances, I am sure we have all seen police that were power hungry adolescents trapped in a man's body. These in reference to the article are not sheepdogs or warriors, they are in fact a wolf in sheepdog's clothing. They seek out opportunity to be predatory. Most of us have encountered one at one point or another. I remember one night coming home from work and one of these wolves pulled me over thinking that because it was after midnight that I was a drunk and even after realizing he was wrong he tried to take the opportunity to try to impose himself on me. When he realized that I was not willing to accept this type of behavior he did back down. I will tell the story to iterate.

I am a psychologist, typically I work during the day at a local hospital; however on this particular day I had to stay and work an extra turn because I was needed. This takes place in October of 2005. Typically, if the next person cannot make it, I am just on call, but this particular instance I was needed. At about 11:45pm I finished up and left the hospital. I drive a 2005 Corvette (the reason I included this info will become evident in a minute). Every day when I come home from work I set my cruise control to 59mph after I pass the last city light. After traveling 7-8 miles from that light I passed a policeman in the median, he turned on his lights and pulled me over. When he got to my window, he stuck his head in (smelling for alcohol on me) and asked me if I knew why he pulled me over. I said to him no sir, I am guessing you were bored. He said "No smart a**, I clocked you at 77mph in a 55." I said to him, "really?" He said yes. He asked me for my license and registration which I provided to him. He left for a second (undoubtedly to see if there were any warrants out on me) and returned to inform me that my unsafe driving could kill someone and he would not tolerate this sort of behavior. I said to him, "Thank you officer, you have just made me a very wealthy man." Thinking that I was referring to litigation against the county he said, what do you think you can sue the county for this? I said no sir, I think that I can sue General Motors for this, you see I follow a pattern every day when I come home from work,, After the stop light at Colorado Street I set my cruise control at 59 for the rest of my trip. Since this is a 65 thousand dollar automobile, it is reasonable to expect that the speed odometer is accurate to within 18 mph considering it is only 3 months old. Therefore I plan to sue General motors, of course, I will have to have the accuracy of the speed odometer tested first, but I am sure that with 28 years of driving experience I could tell if it was off by 18 mph.

He then got quite upset with me and threatened that he could arrest me and impound my car. At this point I was becoming rather frustrated myself and grabbed the cell and called my attorney (at midnight!). The attorney (to my surprise) actually answered the phone and I proceeded to tell him what was happening right in front of the officer, when I got to the part about being arrested and impounding my car, the officer interrupted me and said, did I say I was going to arrest you? I excused myself from the conversation with the attorney and said to the officer no sir you threatened me that you could and I am only taking the necessary precautions to protect myself. At this point the officer became extremely cordial and apologized to me. However, I was irritated and could not leave it at that and said to him, "Look Bucko, next time you think your going to harass someone and try to flex the imaginary muscles you think you have, you better make sure they do not have the resources to fight back. If your going to be a bully, at least be a smart bully and pick your prey a little better." And then I bid him good evening and left.

Long story to make a point and I apologize for that; however, one must bear in mind that just because they talk the talk of the sheepdog, does not mean they walk the walk. The most dangerous wolf is the one that comes in sheep's clothing, I am trying hard not to make a reference to a certain political figure here; however, it is difficult.

[edit on 5/1/2009 by DarrylGalasso]

Originally posted by DarrylGalasso
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

So are you saying you are a predator? I don't mean to offend you, but I honestly think you looked too much at the words, and left the meaning lying on the table.

Would it have been easier to understand if he would have said white knights and black knights, or angels and devils instead of sheepdogs and wolves?

Plato once said (I think it was Plato maybe Aristotle but none the less). "The fool reads the words, the philosopher understands the meaning."

Yes I am a pretador so lock up your daughters, lock up your wife, run for the hills and scream for your life because I am TNT...yeah D-Y-N-O-M-I-T-E and I will win the fight...

AC/DC TNT

Now the question is what do I prey upon...?

Further why do I prey upon it...

Have a hamburger lately my friend? Buy anything from Wal-Mart to save a few bucks that put a neighbor out of a job? Cut anyone off in traffic? Drove through a school zone at 19 miles an hour because you know they won't ticket you by law until you are five miles over but you are only supposed to be going 15? Put 499.00 dollars of non-cash charitable contributions on line 16a of your Schedule 1040A itemized deductions because you know if you say 500.00 you have to fill out another support form for it and provide real evidence it really was worth that much you supposedly gave away? Did you favor the war in Afghanistan, the war in Iraq, think we should go into Pakistan, Somolia or Iran, believe Israel is justified to blow up Palestinian kids and women? Think Obama should not have to show his real birth certificate? Think George Bush should not be tried for War Crimes? Think everyone else in the world secretly yearns to be Christian, have their own strip malls, restaurants and Wal-Marts and your are doing them a favor to support the process that brings them to them...

You see my friend the sheep aren't harmless lovable sheep...they are just really guillable sheep and as long as the right set of people tell them that doing and supporting the right thing is ok, well those sheep can be down right deadly, cruel and evil...

Jesus had a little lamb whose fleece was white as snow...slit it's throat and prepared the bar-b-que upon which it's carcass he would throw...

Friendly, sweet, little lamb.

You are darn right I am predatory, this world has the most skewered convoluted, hypocritical, belief system couched in the faultiest and most self serving logic imaginable!

If you were truly forthcoming with yourself you would see that you too are a predator. Man is a hunter gatherer. Your hamburger did not committ suicide over besse running off with another bull!

Man is a predator, a tribal, social pack animal. Man is a parasite too and believe me no matter how good it makes a vegetarian feel the other head of lettuce next to the one in your salad was screaming, no, no don't take him don't take him!

I am a predator and the false implication is predators are not honest or trustworthy or capable of compassion love or wisdom...

In fact it's the sheep like predators that have the greatest trouble Mastering those qualities...

Can I sing Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap now?

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


Its a great story.

Except its the wolves who control the sheepdog. The police arent there to question if what they are doing is right or wrong, they are there to enforce the law. Same with military they arent there to question moralities they are there to follow the rules. Unfortunately for the sheep the rules were written by a bunch of crappy wolves in sheeps clothing.

The real sheepdogs dont have to wear a badge or carry a gun. Any jackass can do that. It takes a real sheepdog to protect the sheep without a badge or a gun.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Sorry I think we have 2 different definitions of a predator here is what I was referring to:

pred·a·tor (prd-tr, -tôr)
n.
1. An organism that lives by preying on other organisms.
2. One that victimizes, plunders, or destroys, especially for one's own gain.

After reading your response I can see that you defined a predator in a different manner than I do and for that I apologize. And even by my definition, I can see if taken in a literal sense you are quite correct.

Incidentally, I do not shop at Wal-Mart, I detest the company and what it stands for. Wal-Mart by my interpretation of the definition is a predator.

Here is a link to a PBS documentary on Walmart

[edit on 5/1/2009 by DarrylGalasso]

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
This is it in a nutshell.

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn’t tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, “Baa.”

Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.

This is the only portion of the article I find fault with, because the writer has failed to realize who is holding the sheepdog's leash. Its one thing if a kindly Farmer who seeks only to sheer some of the herds wool is in charge but it isn't that way anymore, now the ones who truly control the Farmer and by extension the Sheepdogs are the Wolves themselves! And those wolves intend only to benefit themselves, they don't care about the Farmer, the sheepdog or the sheep. And when these wolves who control the system decide to march the herd to the slaughterhouse they will likely try to use the sheepdogs to control the sheep, and then every warrior claiming to be a defender of the herd will have a real choice to make, do they follow the Farmer and his puppet masters (if they even see the puppet masters pulling the strings) or do they wake up and fight for freedom and justice?

Also, I think it would be better if the sheep became the sheepdogs, which wasn't so uncommon in the days of the Founding Fathers, militias, the sheep looking out for one another, was a very common thing and it would remove the threat of the Wolves taking over because even a well organized pack of wolves couldn't take down a herd of sheep packing heat

Originally posted by DarrylGalasso
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Sorry I think we have 2 different definitions of a predator here is what I was referring to:

pred·a·tor (prd-tr, -tôr)
n.
1. An organism that lives by preying on other organisms.
2. One that victimizes, plunders, or destroys, especially for one's own gain.

After reading your response I can see that you defined a predator in a different manner than I do and for that I apologize. And even by my definition, I can see if taken in a literal sense you are quite correct.

Incidentally, I do not shop at Wal-Mart, I detest the company and what it stands for. Wal-Mart by my interpretation of the definition is a predator.

Yes my friend a rose is a rose by any other name!

I did read and understand the original posters lengthy entreaties, diatribes and hypothethis...and I can see why she and many other people find appeal in them.

Those human beings who best fit the definition of sheep forage happily to digest one thing that provides them contentment and security...that word is absolution.

Above all people seek validation and acceptance because they are communal and social creatures who thrive most happily in herds that membership too entails a set of shared validated standards.

Yet as you can see regardless of that word...absolution...and regardless or the pious and charitable, or strident, and sometimes even sadistic things required to be a member...everyone is still by strict definition a predator.

This is a case of but...don't eat the King's Deer in many ways.

Prey upon those things the herd and it's leader deems suitable for absolution validation and acceptance and nothing else and pray to that uniting prince whose ideaology grants you absolution despite your predatory nature and existence.

In the natural wild the old and the young are most vulnerable in grazing herds, followed by the women, and the non-dominant males, with the most dominant Ram/Bull leading the pack with the lesser alpha males taking up subservient protective roles, and strategically sacrificing the old, infirm, or sick of the herd to the natural predators that live naturally off them but maintain a balance.

Man is in fact so incredibly predatory in it's nature it has defeated nature's balance upon much of the world to impose it's own balance, which often isn't related to the sensible balance of a diverse and totally self sustaining ecosystem but rather commerce, greed and vanity, that has in fact created a huge imbalance in the health of the over all ecosystem and actually imperrils it to an extent that makes man not just predatory but parisitical as he risks the entire destruction of the host body for feel good and selfish reasons.

Now that might not be politically correct, that might not be feel good, but if an intelligent species from another well managed and balanced fully healthy and functional ecosystem were to study ours they would very likely draw that conclusion.

The sheep dog is in fact not a protector of the sheep though he can be cast in to that role from time to time, the sheep dog is a jailer, it in fact makes the herd not safer, it keeps the herd from developing more responsive, responsible intelligent leaders and directions...

Welcome to the Grand Illusion. Styx this time, they from Chicago just like the new head sheppard!

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
I think this says loads about gun control, military topics, and disinformation topics. You are not a warrior/sheepdog because you carry a gun even though you may carry a gun because you are a warrior. It is not the gun that makes a warrior, however, when the warrior is disarmed by legislation, then the wolves are much more likely to move in. It is the intention and action that makes one a warrior. Shining a light on disinformation and trying to inform the sheep is a form of war or sheepherding as well.

[edit on 30/4/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

I don't believe Warriors CAN be disarmed by 'legislation'. They can only be killed, by lesser men, for warring against such legislation. It's very difficult to capture them, because, as you said, being a warrior is a state of mind. At least that's my take on 'intention and action makes one a warrior'. Intentions and actions spring from the state of the mind.

Quite correct in your assessment that not all warriors fight with guns. There are as many ways to wage a war as there are warriors to imagine them. Sun Tzu, author of the ancient treatise on warfare "The Art of War", was of the opinion that the highest form of warriorhood was to win a war without coming to blows.

Warriors ARE the sheepdogs. The Wolves are just thugs at worst, and mere soldiers at best, but still deadly all the same. A uniform doesn't create a Warrior any more than a gun does. According to Tecumseh, the purpose of a Warrior is to protect his people, nothing more, nothing less. Weapons are not always necessary for that, and indeed are at times counter productive. And sometimes VERY necessary. A huge number of folks that don a uniform every day are Warriors in the truest sense of the word, but not all, by any means.

nenothtu out

Originally posted by argentus
Excellent read, Iamonlyhuman and I thank you for sharing it.

This writing rings true to me, and I've noticed similar behaviors from time to time. It seems to me that it is built into the sheepdog to sacrifice himself or herself in times of attack, for the good of the herd, ever if the herd refuses to befriend it. Once the threat has passed, (sweeping generalization continues) the herd goes back to shunning the sheepdog.

Very true. There is an old saying that "the soldiers fight, and the kings are heroes". I've noticed that there are folks in this world that never want you around, until some knothead has THEM up against the wall. Then they will scream themselves hoarse trying to get your attention, to come to the rescue. A Warrior will rise to the occasion every time, knowing that he'll be relegated to second-class citizen status as soon as the emergency is over.

nenothtu out

Originally posted by WonderfulWorld
Interesting & convincing sheep/wolf allegory, I agree. But why the mingling with the biased 9/11 view. Are you sure the wolf was ON the plane....?

[edit on 30-4-2009 by WonderfulWorld]

Not to step on anyone's pet theories, but yes, I'm absolutely SURE that the wolves were on the plane. Otherwise, there wouldn't have been a hijacking, because neither a sheep nor a sheepdog would have done it.

When a wolf cuts your throat, does it really matter if it was THE wolf, or just A wolf? You're no less dead.

nenothtu out

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Your previous post nearly offended my tender sensibilities , But this one cleared things up for me, and I can see your point.

My son has been making noise about joining the Rangers, and I discourage him. So he says 'Well dad, YOU did this and YOU did that, why don't you think I can?" and I have to explain to him that I went a route where I got to pick my battles, and choose my own enemies, not have them chosen for me. Funny thing how politics works. 20 years ago, them that was my friends are now enemies, and them that were my enemies are now friends. In some cases. Either way, I don't care to have a boss to pick 'em out for me, I prefer to think on my own.

And sometimes the Boss himself is the danger.

nenothtu out

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


The problem with those 'organ-izations' or groups is the whole group-think idea where one stands as an ant among it's shadow.

Often the Queen of the hive knows not her own destiny.

Evolution of the species survives it's own demise?

Question is, will the 'best' survive?

If you Do so.

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by AceWombat04

 

Sticking with the section you quoted, how many times have you heard people complain or be outraged over sprinklers or fire alarms in schools? Now how many times have you heard people complain or be outraged over even a suggestion of armed police officers or metal detectors? The only time the latter is deemed acceptable is immediately following a school shooting. Any other time it's a violation of rights and/or too dangerous to have an armed police officer. Sounds like denial to me.

Again, it isn't an either/or or zero sum proposition. There are people who are in denial, and there are people who aren't. All I'm saying is that disagreeing with a policy, stance, opinion, or action does not automatically equate to being in denial. Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't.

People are capable of understanding and accepting a fact yet still disagreeing with the conclusions drawn based upon that fact.

[edit on 5/1/2009 by AceWombat04]

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
S&F Excellent post. Thank you for sharing.

Wish the Mods had not cut it however am grateful for the link.

Very important read.


[edit on 1-5-2009 by ofhumandescent]

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull

And when these wolves who control the system decide to march the herd to the slaughterhouse they will likely try to use the sheepdogs to control the sheep, and then every warrior claiming to be a defender of the herd will have a real choice to make, do they follow the Farmer and his puppet masters (if they even see the puppet masters pulling the strings) or do they wake up and fight for freedom and justice?

That's exactly what makes them sheepdogs! Not all will make the right choice, but some will.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
Also, I think it would be better if the sheep became the sheepdogs, which wasn't so uncommon in the days of the Founding Fathers, militias, the sheep looking out for one another, was a very common thing and it would remove the threat of the Wolves taking over because even a well organized pack of wolves couldn't take down a herd of sheep packing heat

Of course! The more sheepdogs there are, the better the chances of survival of the sheepdogs AND the sheep.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

 

S&F Excellent post. Thank you for sharing.

Wish the Mods had not cut it however am grateful for the link.

Very important read.


[edit on 1-5-2009 by ofhumandescent]

Yes, I couldn't cut one single line from it. I felt it was ALL important. Too many times people only read what's in the OP and don't bother to go to the link. Maybe because of the responses so far they will be curious.

With all this talk about sheep and sheep dogs, you have all forgotten about the goats.

I think the difference between the sheep dog and the wolf is that the sheep dog works for the man, while the wolf works for the pack, his family and friends.

The wolf, sheep dog, and sheppard are all predators. They all eat mutton. The sheep aren't all that great themselves. While they tend to be non-violent, they do compete amongst each other, and have no more respect for anyone else than the wolf of the sheep dog, or the sheppard. The sheep are also opportunistic, and the only thing that really separates them from the wolf and the sheep dog and the sheppard is lack of courage and ability.

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Your previous post nearly offended my tender sensibilities

, But this one cleared things up for me, and I can see your point.

My son has been making noise about joining the Rangers, and I discourage him. So he says 'Well dad, YOU did this and YOU did that, why don't you think I can?" and I have to explain to him that I went a route where I got to pick my battles, and choose my own enemies, not have them chosen for me. Funny thing how politics works. 20 years ago, them that was my friends are now enemies, and them that were my enemies are now friends. In some cases. Either way, I don't care to have a boss to pick 'em out for me, I prefer to think on my own.

And sometimes the Boss himself is the danger.

nenothtu out

Well put my friend...tis a shame we did away with Patrician Law...son if you join the Rangers dear old Dad will exercize his lawful authority to kill you myself!

Alas kids will be kids and some where around the time they get well into their mid twenties they start to see things a different way.

I hope is life is a grand one which ever way he decides to live it.

That's the whole point of my post, the sheep dog's purpose is to deny you that freedom to do things. Sometimes the wrong thing is the right thing, and the right thing is the wrong thing, and as you mentioned so well, sometimes it takes some time to figure that out.

One man's villian is another's hero.

Life...it's a funny old dog!

Best of luck in your prowlings my friend.

I read the article and liked it for the most part but it sure made me think where I fit into this dichotomy of his.

I guess if I had to say then I would fit somewhere like domesticated wolf.


[edit on 5/1/2009 by UFOTECH]

reply to post by LoneGunMan


Cool, dude. Way to go. Don't ever let injustices go unanswered. Myself, I was standing in my back yard. There was a wide swath of open land and a railroad track before the land went back to forest and swamp. I saw a man and he had his wife or girlfriend bent over backwards on the hood of his car and he was beating her. I yelled at him. MFer, you want to beat somebody? Come try me. He looked up, left his gal alone and began running towards me. I said, oh f! I asked my daughter to find me a big stick cuz I thought I might have a battle on my hands. He ran up to my back gate and stopped and said, You're right. I was wrong. I apoligize to you and I will apologize to my girl. I said, okay, but I will be watching you forever more, punk a$$. Jeeze that guy was big. I thought I was going to get my a$$ whooped. whew. And as he was walking back to his car and his gal, I yelled at the gril to leave his sorry a$$. He'll do it again, honey, I yelled. I am not real big. I am not really strong, and I am half damned crippled with arthritis, but I will contine to stand for those who need someone to stand for them. It's just my nature. Am I a sheepdog or am I a sheep? I really don't know. Sometimes I try to guide the herd. Other times I find myself in the herd saying. baaaaaaa baaaaaaaaa. I like to condsider myself a lone wolf, but I am definitely not a "wolf".