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Obama unequivocal: 'I believe that waterboarding was torture'

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posted on May, 5 2009 @ 12:57 AM
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reply to post by evil incarnate
 


I don't believe I was argueing that part.

If its illegal then its illegal.

I have my own view on the subject and have voiced it on several threads and maybe this one also.




posted on May, 5 2009 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by evil incarnate
 


I don't believe I was argueing that part.

If its illegal then its illegal.

I have my own view on the subject and have voiced it on several threads and maybe this one also.


What????????

So you admit that it is illegal but you still think it is ok for the United States to do it?

Is that really the America you live in? One that makes a rule it feels no need to follow itself?



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 01:48 AM
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reply to post by evil incarnate
 


Never said it was ok either.

I asked about the Japanese soldiers. You showed me that they were executed by the Allied military courts. Opposed to the United States executing them as you claimed.

That was the only thing I was talking about.

You know you would know this if you paid more attention.



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by evil incarnate
 


You honestly think that those Japanese you keep referring to was executed only because of water boarding?

Water boarding was the appetizer to what layed in store for those who were tortured by the Japanese. It is very unlikely that water boarding was the only thing they were charged with.



OK, so why are you trying so hard to prove that it was not a crime? What point are you trying to make? OK, so I was wrong about the Japanese soldiers, somewhat. My point is that waterboarding is torture and illegal. What is your point?



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 02:08 AM
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reply to post by evil incarnate
 


To make sure the real story of the Japanese soldiers came out.

We are already seen as the villian, we don't need lies and half truths to help the push that thought.

You were claiming that we executed them to fuel your arguement. That claim was wrong.

I would imagine that you would be happy that you now know the truth to your story and won't be spreading lies unknowingly.



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by jd140
 


My point from the very beginning was simply that the United States deemed water boarding torture. I provided examples and they were wrong. Ok fine. My examples were wrong. Was my premise?

Why did the United States outlaw it after WWII again?

I said it was torture. You wanted to argue with me about the details. Fine, go for it. I stand by my point.

Waterboarding is torture as per the Unites States laws.

Please tell me I am wrong about that.



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by evil incarnate
 


Right your example was wrong. Now you know that and won't use it again, I hope.

Was your premise right? Sure, but that wasn't what I was straighting out.

example.

If I said that there are many numbers you can add together to equal 4. An example of this is 3+2=4.

My premise is right, but my example is wrong.

I would appreciate it if someone corrected me so that I don't continue to look like an idiot.



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by jd140
 


Hey um, genius. I said waterboarding was torture according to the United States. You did not agree. I attempted to prove it and got some details wrong but I was still right in that it is torture according to the U.S.

What are you trying to prove now? It is torture. That was my point. I also proved my point with actual evidence. What is it you want now?

Are you trying to say that because it was 1 instead of 8 and that some soldiers were British. I was off just a little bit but I was still right in my statement that waterboarding is considered torture by the United States.

Care to tell me I am wrong about it?



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by evil incarnate
 


Your EXAMPLE WAS WRONG.

I never said anything about the legality of waterboarding.

Your EXAMPLE WAS WRONG.

I corrected your example.

Your EXAMPLE WAS WRONG.

I never said the US never at one time outlawed waterboarding.

YOUR EXAMPLE WAS WRONG.

If you want to keep pushing the issue on what point I was trying to make please refer to my last 2 or 3 posts. It is getting very tiresome repeating the same thing over and over and over again.



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by jd140
 



What is your point? I really do not get it. You jumped on the bandwagon of people claiming that it is perfectly legal or not torture. I never invited you but you wanted a piece so here you go. Now what is your point? My example was not wrong. The details of my example were off. My point was, is, and always will be that waterboarding is torture according to the United States. Either you agree with me or disagree with me. If you do not agree, be clear as to what your point is. I am starting to think you do not have a point. You were just looking to argue with someone.

If you really want to harp on my example, then at least consider that I CAME UP WITH THE CORRECT FACTS DIDN'T I?????

Did you correct me? Did you do ANY research at all? No, I provided the example the contradicted some of my details. Unfortunately, it backed up my point which is and was - waterbaording is illegal torture.

Now what is your point?



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 02:16 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 03:03 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 03:10 PM
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Let's stay focused ON the TOPIC and not each other, please.



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by evil incarnate
 


You charged the US with executing Japanese soldiers for wateboarding

I asked you to provide a link stating your claim and you did.

Your link showed that your claim was false.

My whole issue is wanting verification. I got it and it proved what I thought to be true.

If it bothers you that you don't know which side of the fence I am on then I will let you know.

I am in the middle. I think both sides are correct and wrong.

Is it illegal? Yes it is, but I also think there should be exceptions made.

I hope this has relexed you a bit and if you still don't know what point I was trying to make. Someone else will have to explain it because that is the last time I do it.



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by Gemwolf
 


[SNIP]

Waterboarding is considered illegal torture by the United States. Is anyone arguing that is not true? I know some people just want to argue for the sake of arguing but I am sticking to the topic and my point all along.

Waterboarding is torture.

Waterboarding is illegal.

Anyone care to challenge that?

Anyone care to challenge that and not cherry pick the details of my posts to try and claim I am wrong when my end result is still the same as it was before and is still every bit as valid.

Mod Edit: Removed off-topic part.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by Gemwolf]



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by jd140
Is it illegal? Yes it is, but I also think there should be exceptions made.

I hope this has relexed you a bit and if you still don't know what point I was trying to make. Someone else will have to explain it because that is the last time I do it.


I never charged anyone with anything. I am not an officer of the law. I cannot charge people with things. I made a statement and then I DID THE RESEARCH to find the real facts. The real facts completely backed up my point that the UNITED STATES DOES NOT TORTURE AND WATERBOARDING IS TORTURE. That has been my point all along and you can harp on what I got wrong all you like. I am the one the went and dug it up. I am the one that showed my details to be incorrect. Unfortunately, my point stands as it did before.

As far as exceptions go...what other laws do you think should be subject to exceptions? This is America and our legal system is not intended to make exceptions. Laws are laws for a reason, no matter who flaunts them.

If you feel exceptions should be made, why? This is America. We do not torture. Do you know why we do not torture? Because in WWII America said the Nazis tortured people and we are better than that so we will never torture people. Please explain why exceptions should be made when waterboarding has not been proven to help glean any useful information whatsoever. The only thing waterboarding has accomplished is showing the world that we are hypocrites and can no longer be trusted.

Is that the America you want?

Do I get to [SNIP] and drive drunk now because I strongly feel exceptions should be made?

Mod Edit: Removed drug reference.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by Gemwolf]



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by evil incarnate

1 - because we went to the enemy where they could kill us on their soil. We did them a favor.

2 - who was clinton torturing for 8 years?


There has been a distinct drop in Al-Qaeda terrorist attacks worldwide since the start of 2007, and it is because the 'best and brightest' Al-Qaeda have to offer, have all gone to Iraq and perished. The 'flypaper' strategy has worked.



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by evil incarnate

Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by evil incarnate
 


You will, probably, never know on whom Clinton authorized enhanced interrogation techniques. Because, the administration that followed him respected the necessity of keeping that information classified.



So you are actually contending that we were safe for those 8 years because he was already running secret torture prisons for the entirety of his presidency? Wow, what color is your sky?

P.S. I take you are alluding to Obama releasing the torture memos. I again have to ask, what color is your sky. Here in the real world in America, all of that information was already out there. Anyone that watched the news or the daily show for the last YEAR already knew all of that stuff. Please do not go there. That would be another pointless thread of hate and is completely insane.

[edit on 3-5-2009 by evil incarnate]



Uhhh, you are aware that the World Trade centers were bombed back in 1994 (by al-qaeda no less), which was when clinton was president, correct?



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by evil incarnate

Originally posted by WTFover
reply to post by evil incarnate
 


If you read all of my posts on this thread, you will not find where I have advocated the use of torture. That is your word. I do, however, believe in the effectiveness of enhanced interrogation techniques (if we must use labels). There is a difference. Even the Obama quote, in the OP, acknowledges not everyone agrees that water boarding is "torture".


Unfortunately, the United States of America has already condemned water boarding as torture. We signed the Geneva convention and we run around proclaiming how much better we are than these hairless monkeys.

Please explain to me what happened between today and when we condemned Japanese soldiers to die for the exact same thing because it was torture.


the Geneva Convention was never intended to cover terrorists... And its not like we are driving nail guns into these peoples fingers, or drilling holes into them via drill guns...




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