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American History??

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posted on May, 5 2009 @ 04:55 PM
As far as north america goes its history didnt really change for more than 9000 years.

Even if native americans wrote down thier history, it would have much to say beyond,

"We hunted deer, and made jerky gathered some acorns, then we raided Twin Crows villiage and made off with two women, a bundle of firs and a dog followed us home."

And if you look at the societies of the southwest, arguably the most socially advanced native north americans, their cultural advancments appear to be linked to mexico.

Its not some conspiracy of concealment.
Like I said in my ealier post there is more written on american history than any one person could ever read in a lifetime.
You just wont find it in the "Quikie Mart" of knowledge that is the internet.

posted on May, 5 2009 @ 05:17 PM

Originally posted by twestjr79

My question is didn't the natives have history?? built buildings??? why did the move around so much?? why didn't they become civilizaived ( build homes and communitys)

Are you talking about the current United states or the Americas?. Plenty of human made stuff throughout.

It also depends on your opinion of becoming civilised? They (and I'm talking different groups) had highly developed working societies, that didnt reflect their intracies through building or architecture. Buildings for the Europeans weren't just functional and a reflection intelligence or 'becoming civilized", they also reflect status and possession. How is this a reflection of being civilized?
Was Europe more civlized with its inquisition, slavery, status of Women etc?

The framework for their societies were as intricate and multi faceted as anywhere else, just different in how they housed themselves or worshiped.

Zazzy F

posted on May, 5 2009 @ 09:36 PM
reply to post by punkinworks
Thanks for the reply.Your idea seems like it could of happen. I always felt like the indians were behind for some reason.Im not gonna buy that they were satisified with sitting around in loin cloth, not wanting to futher themselves. Could of been the "peace pipe"

posted on May, 5 2009 @ 09:39 PM
Can someone flag or star me. I could really use the points Thanks in advance

posted on May, 7 2009 @ 08:36 AM

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
Okay, and your point is? The OP asked about AMERICAN HISTORY, and the fact is, most of it has been lost or ignored. All of your talk and defending doesnt change that fact.

honestly, it seems as though you are defending something, as opposed to looking at the facts.

[edit on 5/1/2009 by cautiouslypessimistic]

If you re-read, you'll see that what I am doing is asking for facts.


No, what you have done is challenge my position because I threw out a random number, yet you have yet to show anything to refute it. You talk about protected land. You talk about other countries.

But you wont adress the fact that, as was my origional contention, as a whole, this country has largely ignored the native history.

You have not asked me to "address" this fact.

Here's the post you made that caught my attention:

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
So your argument is that since 1/100th of the native history in this country is being preserved, that means that this country cares?

Come on now.

See, I like to deal with facts, not imaginary situations such as your claim here implies.

You subsequently claimed that the actual amount of preservation would be lower than one percent:

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

Okay. I do live in the most heavily populated native american area in the nation. I have spent 10 years studying the culture. That i threw out a random number like 1/100th(which the actual percentage would be lower), has nothing to do with the POINT of what I am saying.

I posted a series of questions, all ignored by you, in response to your illegitimate and self-serving claim:

Originally posted by Harte
I would like to see what number you are using for the total of all archaeological sites in the U.S. Do you even know this number?
Are you somehow including sites that have yet to be discovered?

Are you aware that all archaeological sites on public land in the U.S. are protected by Federal Law?

Do you know that any sites found through development must be studied and catalogued and all pertinent materials removed for study before any development can continue, under penalty of federal law?

Would you have the government take private lands because they contain archaeological sites, even if the sites are not being disturbed in any way?

What exactly is your point here?

You must be aware that the looting of archaeological sites began with the Europeans in Africa and the Middle East, right?

Have you no tears for Egypt, or is it all about Native Americans?

I have no guilt. I own no arrowheads, and never have.

Can you say the same?

Like I said, I am asking for your facts.

Apparently, you make them up rather than actually learning what is factual.

By the way, where you live has little to do with it. I myself am from Oklahoma. I don't claim to be an expert on preservation of American Indian heratage, though. So I don't see your living where you do as meaning anything at all in this regard.

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimisticLike I said, reeks of someone on the defensive.

Perhaps I would sound less "defensive" to you if I rattle off a string of "facts" that I made up to support some position I might have?


posted on May, 7 2009 @ 10:04 AM

European naturalists used the theory of "environmentalism" to argue that plants, animals, and the native peoples of America were inferior to that of Europe due to climate and geography. Jefferson refuted these notions in his only book, Notes on the State of Virginia, and defended American Indian culture. He appended to the Notes, the speech of the Mingo chief Logan, who mourned the loss of his family in an attack by a white settler. Jefferson held up "Logan's Lament" as an example of great and powerful oratory, the equal of any European orator, classical or modern.

"I believe the Indian then to be in body and mind equal to the whiteman," Jefferson wrote to the Marquis de Chastellux. Only their environment needed to be changed to make them fully American in Jefferson's mind. Even though many American Indians lived in villages and many engaged in agriculture, hunting was often still necessary for subsistence. It was this semi-nomadic way of life that led Jefferson and others to consider Indians as "savages." Jefferson believed that if American Indians were made to adopt European-style agriculture and live in European-style towns and villages, then they would quickly "progress" from "savagery" to "civilization" and eventually be equal, in his mind, to white men. As President, Jefferson would try to make these changes a reality.

So it was their mobility, that made Jefferson see Indians as 'savages' but today's American can see that mobility versus being rooted in place, is actually a pivotal legal question and also a spiritual one as well. One sees the stupidity of Europe quite well in this. In Europe, the serf knows he is a prisoner of the Lord. It was time to explain that to the Indians.

It is known that the "New England" tribes were well governed among themselves and aside from a few raids, had lived in peace according to their legend of The Peacemaker who had united the tribes. Jefferson took a lot from the Indians as he formed America.

Great Law of Peace

Gayanashagowa or the Great Law of Peace of the Iroquois (or Haudenosaunee) Six Nations is the oral constitution that created the Iroquois Confederacy. The law was developed by a man known as The Great Peacemaker and his spokesman Hiawatha. Member Nations ratified this constitution near present day Victor, New York.

The Iroquois Confederacy was once thought to have started in the 1500s, but more recent estimates date the confederacy, and its constitution between 1090 and 1150 CE. These estimates were based on the records of the confederacy leadership and astronomical dating related to a total solar eclipse that coincided with the founding of the Confederacy [1].

According to several historians, including Donald Grinde, the democratic ideals of the Gayanashagowa, which had been quite unknown in European feudal tradition, provided a significant inspiration to Benjamin Franklin, James Madison and other framers of the United States Constitution. John Rutledge of South Carolina in particular is said to have read lengthy tracts of Iroquoian law to the other framers, beginning with the words "We, the people, to form a union, to establish peace, equity, and order..."[2] The Congress of the United States passed Concurrent Resolution 331 in October 1988, specifically recognizing the influence of the Iroquois Constitution upon the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.[3]

Jefferson met Indians when still small. Him run with them and learn with them. Him admire and respect Indians. His ancestors come, kill many Indians. Him also had slave girl, much good times. Much free spirit in this one called Thomas Jefferson. Sadly, not enough.

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