What is to Become of the GOP?

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posted on Apr, 29 2009 @ 02:57 PM
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One of the best discussions of the implications of Arlen Spector's move to join the Democrats is in the following story from the Washington Post newspaper:


voices.washingtonpost.com...


Keep in mind that while Spector had been Republican for 43 years, he did start out in politics as a Democrat, by the way.

The future of the GOP will in the short run be heavily affected by extreme rightwing interest groups such as The Club For Growth. The above article includes a link with more information on The Club For Growth, which bankrolled Spector's primary challenger in the last Senate election in Pennsylvania. Several prominent moderate GOP senators and congress members have recently spoken about a repeated pattern in the last few election cycles where The Club For Growth funded extreme right wing challenges to moderate Republican primary candidates. Ultimately, even where those moderate Republicans won the primaries, they had to spend so much money staying alive in the primaries that they were at a financial disadvantage in the general election and lost. For example, that is what happened to Lincoln Chafee in Rhode Island last year, according to an interview with Chafee last night on MSNBC.

Perhaps the current time shows the endgame of extreme right wing conservatism battling for control of the GOP. I remember when Lou Dobbs interviewed Anne Coulter last year on his show, he expressed surprised that Anne did not support fiscal conservatism which Lou cited as a core Republican value. Anne's answer was revealing: "Those were the Republicans who LOST elections."

Once the extreme right wingers go to the wall and fail, then and only then will the GOP have a chance to redefine itself. And I think that they will more successfully redefine themselves. We sure could use a political party that would accept a politician like Abraham Lincoln once again.

I'm a political independent, but I notice that any party in power eventually gets into real trouble, and depends on outside reality checks (from other political parties) to get them back on track. It seems to be a human thing.




posted on Apr, 29 2009 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by Uphill
Once the extreme right wingers go to the wall and fail, then and only then will the GOP have a chance to redefine itself. And I think that they will more successfully redefine themselves. We sure could use a political party that would accept a politician like Abraham Lincoln once again.


An excellent post and a star for you.

The GOP should no more defined by its right wing branches than the Democrats should by their most left wing ones... both are the poles and polarizing and most people fall somewhere in the middle.

I do not consider myself a Democrat... I have said that I have no faith in the Democrats but I have less faith in the Republicans... however I am an unabashed liberal.

Like most people while I lean towards one party over the other, in my case Democratic, I have voted Republican, especially on the local level and will probably do so again...

If the right wing continues its stranglehold on the GOP we will see it either fracture or fade away like the Whigs, Know Nothing party and other once powerful parties.

[edit on 29-4-2009 by grover]



posted on Apr, 29 2009 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by grover
 



as it stands right now I don't see a single Republican out there who has even a snow ball's chance in hell of replicating for the GOP what Obama did for the Democrats.


True statement as it stands now.

But if the economy keeps sinking those snowball chances in hell increase. It is in the Democrats hands to win or lose.



posted on Apr, 29 2009 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 

I agree wholeheartedly.

One of the things that amazes me about Obama (and I do despite what some here claim have reservations about some of his policies especially in banking) is how he has been able to transcend his party so regardless (so far and it is still early) of how his party behaves in congress it doesn't seem to stick to him... in this he most resembles Reagan.



posted on Apr, 29 2009 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
Many GOP's will run as independents, get elected, and will reunite with the party once the party reforms itself.

They will still be Republicans at heart with a Republican type agenda.



yes but what does reform mean?

That's what I'm interested in.



posted on Apr, 29 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 



yes but what does reform mean?


Very good question, but that is for the GOP to decide. I know I may get bashed for this, but the GOP doesn't mirror America. It is still pretty much a white looking party. Richard Steele wouldn't even be their leader if Obama would have lost.

I am not advocating that the GOP go out and throw in minorities just for the sake of showing that they have minorities. I am urging them to reform themselves in a way that minorities could relate with. Hope that makes sense.



posted on Apr, 29 2009 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 


You have consistently posted intelligent and well considered posts on this thread and that is exactly the type of dialogue I would like to see for this thread.

A star for you.



posted on Apr, 29 2009 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 


It's hard for Republicans to attract minorities because we don't promise to give them everything and hold their hand while they walk across the street.

Republicans need to continue to stress individuals, hard work, and achievement, and the fruits of achievement.

Republicans are not in trouble because of conservatives, they are in trouble because of the lilly-livered moderates. Getting rid of Benedict Arlen was a start. Next up John McCain, and the bopsy twins from Maine. I want to see a time in the near future when I see a "R" by a politicians name that I can trust him. Period!

BTW It's funny to see the opposition and their feigned "worry" about the decline of the opposition party. Especially when they have got the most inept President since Jimmy Carter, and an absolute joke of a speaker of the house in Nancy Pelosi, and a very crooked Majority Leader in the Dingy Harry Reid.

When you are up against Obama-Pelosi-Reid, the road back is not that long. Clean up the party and we will be back in control in no time!



posted on Apr, 29 2009 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by RRconservative
reply to post by jam321
 

It's hard for Republicans to attract minorities because we don't promise to give them everything and hold their hand while they walk across the street.


That is a ugly, deeply offensive and insulting to all good people who are minorities and dare I say racist...

AND the type of attitude from many on the far right that has drove minorities off.

Given the fact that Asian community a few years ago was staunchly Republican and they have a history of being among the hardest working minorities in the nation... and they have drifted away from the GOP...

how does that fit into your nasty little world view?

I knew you were a bigot and you just proved it.


[edit on 29-4-2009 by grover]



posted on Apr, 29 2009 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by RRconservative
 



It's hard for Republicans to attract minorities because we don't promise to give them everything and hold their hand while they walk across the street.


Not all minorities are looking for a handout.


Republicans need to continue to stress individuals, hard work, and achievement, and the fruits of achievement.


I can agree with this.


When you are up against Obama-Pelosi-Reid, the road back is not that long. Clean up the party and we will be back in control in no time!


I think the economy will decide how soon the GOP is back although I do share your view about a Democrat controlled Congress and White House.



posted on Apr, 29 2009 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by grover
 


I was responding to the assertion that the GOP has to attract minorities. They don't. They have got to attract the individual. Rugged individualism made this country, not some government welfare program. Making someone dependent on the government is no different than slavery.

The true racism lies in the Democrat Party. Making people dependent on Government is racist. Telling someone to be self-sufficent is not.

JFK said it best "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

JFK also favored tax cuts in hard economic times. Sometimes I really think if JFK returned he would come back as a Republican.



posted on Apr, 29 2009 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by RRconservative
 


In case you haven't noticed America has been a multi-cultural society for some time and that is not going to change...

and no party who wants to remain a national party can do it without catering to all people...

ya can't be a national party of the rich or disgruntled white men and expect to get anywhere anymore.

It is this type of xenophobic attitude that has driven the minorities away from the GOP... it basically says if you are not like us you aren't welcome.

There is no future in this attitude RR.



posted on Apr, 29 2009 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by Uphill

Perhaps the current time shows the endgame of extreme right wing conservatism battling for control of the GOP. I remember when Lou Dobbs interviewed Anne Coulter last year on his show, he expressed surprised that Anne did not support fiscal conservatism which Lou cited as a core Republican value. Anne's answer was revealing: "Those were the Republicans who LOST elections."




That there just shows you, that Anne C is more interested in winning, then honoring conservative values.

She is one of the contributing factors to the demise of the Republican party. She and Rush Limbaugh are the Michael Moores of the Republican party.



posted on Apr, 29 2009 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by RRconservative
reply to post by grover
 

I was responding to the assertion that the GOP has to attract minorities. They don't. They have got to attract the individual. Rugged individualism made this country, not some government welfare program.


You still don't get it do you?

The assumption is that minorities... which are not some sort of generic other but are rather women, blacks, gays, Hispanics, Asians... etc. are here for a hand out and despite hateful rhetoric to the contrary, for the most part simply is not true...

The vast majority want to work and pay their own way.



posted on Apr, 29 2009 @ 10:00 PM
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The Republican party will only once again hold a branch of government after it becomes more moderate , pragmatist and puts the right wing kooks to bed . The reality is that a lot of so called minority's end up making a significant segment of the population . Sure there are some issues that go off topic such as illegal aliens , migrants not trying to blend in with local culture and society . In other cases no respectable party would discriminate or hate someone based there sexuality .

The only group of people I believe that a stand should be taken illegal aliens for reasons that are again off topic . Heck I don't have any figures handy but in my life in the very least the majority of the population that Kiwis of European descend make up is going to shrink .



posted on Apr, 29 2009 @ 10:10 PM
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The Pendulum may swing slowly, but it always swings the other way. The farther to the left it swings, then at the right time, the farther to the right it swings.

Consider the former nations of the USSR when it fell.

People were so pissed off, they were executing Presidents, and even their wives in some instances.

This Marxist trip we're on right now, will reverse.

The Democrats have the House, the Senate, and the White House. And we saw what happened when the Republicans were on a roll. Many liberals decided to run as Republicans, which led to disaster.

I don't care if the Republican Party fails or not. We need a Conservative Party that will to a degree eliminate RINO's.

The Republican Party lost its soul, and damn if I know if it will ever get it back.

The next elections in 2010 and 2012, if we still have a nation left, will not be so much about voting for someone, as it will be about voting against the crap we see in Washington now.

Backlash. It's a bitch.



posted on Apr, 30 2009 @ 02:00 AM
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Originally posted by RRconservative
reply to post by jam321
 


It's hard for Republicans to attract minorities because we don't promise to give them everything and hold their hand while they walk across the street.



Stereotype much?

Ugh this is why political parties suck. So thoughtless and divisive with their talking points. People need to just run on their beliefs and think for themselves, talk about how they would fight tyranny and not worry about labels and voting along party lines. It's why congress can't do anything right no matter who is in charge.

As far as I can tell a multi party system is no more democratic than a one party system with infighting, it's the same with cosmetic differences. The republicans will come back as soon as everyone tires of the democrats and the image damage wears off, it happens the same way every time.

Or maybe you're just hateful, just trying to think of an excuse for you.



posted on Apr, 30 2009 @ 03:07 AM
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reply to post by grover
 


Perhaps if the GOP really did move to the right, as in conservative, I would be happier that would actually make them liberal in the sense of the word form the late 1700's, but the GOP hasn't moved to the right. They are doing weird twists in the wind, sometimes being more liberal, sometimes, things that now people think are right movements, that aren't really. That's why they are called Neo-cons. It's a hodge podge of disjointed things. Much like the Dems. Nothing is recognizable today. The dems have become Neo-libs. Neither major party is near to what the original patriots of the new U.S. of A. were. The US constitution? Walked all over by both parties. Liberty? Walked upon and stomped into the dirt by both parties. We are becoming a country without ethics, morals and direction. Presidents over step their authority. Congress lets them and encourages more of the same. The judicial branch rewrites laws passed by congress. It's a freaking free for all. And I believe it is soon becoming a free fall. Into what I don't know. But, anyway, it's all very exciting times to be alive. Watching events unfold and fold in upon themselves, it's quite entertaining to me. It's all been a great 56 year ride for me. Maybe I will see another 56 years of this sort of stuff. What great stories I will be able to tell my Grandmum when we meet up again.



posted on Apr, 30 2009 @ 07:30 AM
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An interesting article in the NYT today about this very issue. Here are a few quotes from it:


www.nytimes.com...

... With consensus growing among Republicans that the party is in its worst political position in recent memory, some conservatives applauded Mr. Specter’s departure. They said it cleared the way for the party to distance itself from its record of expanding government during the Bush years and to re-emphasize the calls for tax cuts and reduced federal spending that have dominated Republican thought for more than 30 years.

“We strayed from our principles of limited government, individual responsibility and economic freedom,” said Chris Chocola, a former Indiana congressman who is head of Club for Growth, a group that has financed primary challenges against Republicans it considers insufficiently conservative. “We have to adhere to those principles to rebuild the party. Those are the brand of the Republican Party, and people feel that we betrayed the brand.”

But Republican leaders in Washington argued that Republicans would be permanently marginalized unless they showed flexibility on social issues as well as economic ones.

Senator John Cornyn of Texas, the head of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, said he would seek to recruit candidates who he thought could win in Democratic or swing states, even if it meant supporting candidates who might disagree with his own conservative views.

Mr. Cornyn said he was taking a page from Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York, the last head of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, who led his party to big gains by embracing candidates who, for example, opposed abortion rights or gun control...


and:


... Senator Lindsay Graham, Republican of South Carolina, said: “We are not losing blue states and shrinking as a party because we are not conservative enough. If we pursue a party that has no place for someone who agrees with me 70 percent of the time, that is based on an ideological purity test rather than a coalition test, then we are going to keep losing....”


and:


Saying that their party should do more to draw economic contrasts with the Democrats, several Republicans said Mr. Specter’s departure was in effect a purification rite for the party that would make it better able to make its case to the public.

“I’m not hurt by Arlen Specter walking away,” said Michael Reagan, the son of former President Ronald Reagan and a conservative talk show host. “At least now the party doesn’t waste money supporting someone who does not support the party.”

“It’s interesting that people say the right has taken over the Republican Party — but no one can say what we’ve done,” Mr. Reagan said. “We’ve been closeted for the last eight years; it’s time for the right to come out of the closet.”

Senator Jim DeMint of South Carolina said ideological purity was the road to success. “The best way to get to 60 is to have a core group of Republicans who really do what they say and stand for their principles,” Mr. DeMint said...


Finally:


...The question of how the party should respond to Mr. Specter’s departure was the main subject of a Senate Republican lunch on Wednesday. The party can be a “big tent,” said Senator John Ensign of Nevada, “but here are some core principles: fiscal responsibility, more personal responsibility, looking for a smaller, more effective government.”

Mr. Graham scoffed at the notion that the party was suffering because it was not conservative enough.

“Do you really believe that we lost 18-to-34-year-olds by 19 percent, or we lost Hispanic voters, because we are not conservative enough?” he said. “No. This is a ridiculous line of thought. The truth is we lost young people because our Republican brand is tainted.”


How can a party that according to some (like RR conservative in his previous posts on this thread) that needs to weed out its moderates and doesn't need minorities call itself the "the Big Tent party" or for that matter remain relevant in a plural, multi-cultural society?

The GOP needs to answer that for themselves obviously and it seems that they are taking baby steps in that direction but it is going to take giant steps to move themselves away from the ravages of bush minor's legacy.

The GOP may end up regretting the day they so blindly accepted and followed ole 43.



posted on Apr, 30 2009 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by grover
reply to post by jam321
 

That's an interesting idea... I am not so sure it would work though considering that they would still be the same people with pretty much the same ideas.

I would think that the party if it is to survive is to do what the Democrats did which was to move towards the middle until someone actually comes along with fresh ideas...

as it stands right now I don't see a single Republican out there who has even a snow ball's chance in hell of replicating for the GOP what Obama did for the Democrats.


Did I miss something? When did the Democrats move to the middle. Bill Clinton was fairly in the middle, but Barak Obama is about as left as you can get short of turning communist.

The Dems are doing nothing but forcing through their liberal agenda because they have the majority of votes in the Congress.

As soon as people catch on to the idea that they are going to eventually get taxed for all of this regardless of what President Obama says, then they will most likely retaliate by voting for the Republicans. The Dems are tricky. They probably wont raise your payroll taxes, but they will tax you in every other way imaginable so they can continue the agenda.

One day we might all have free health care and all kinds of benefits from the government but we will still be worse off because they will take more than those things would have cost us in the free market by taxing the living hell out of us.

If I were the GOP I would back off of some of the evangelical views a bit, but other than that I would stay the course and wait for every body to catch on to the idea that they are being conned and they are giving up their freedoms for a free handout which definitely wont be free.

Everyone quickly forgets that most people didnt vote for the dems as much as they voted against George Bush. Plus, after all the consequences of this overspending kick in people will hate the liberal agenda. Of course, that is just my opinion.

Everyone will soon learn what they forgot. There is no such thing as a free lunch. There never has been, there never will be.

[edit on 30-4-2009 by justsomeboreddude]





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