Tasered man kills policemen in shoot-out

reply to post by Blaine91555


Funny story, this. There's always a backstory, and I think it's time to get it out there.

Five years ago I jilted a woman. Straight up left her for a younger, prettier, more slender model... Needless to say, she wanted a little revenge.

In my state, the mere fear of personal harm from a man will allow a PFA (protection from abuse) order to be issued. As I stated earlier, the state law is that all firearms permits are revoked, as well as firearms confiscated. I completely understand the logic behind this, in the cases where the fear of personal harm is justified.

Without going into too much detail... this woman procured a PFA against me, without provocation, based SOLELY on my service record, and the fact that I am a gun owner.

I never threatened her, certainly have NEVER laid hands on a woman. The mere thought disgusts me. Nevertheless, she convinced a judge to issue this restraining order by producing ridiculous "evidence" such as a copy of my DD214, pictures of me hunting deer, and of all things, a reciept for one of my firearms.

Solely because I left her, and that made me "dangerous". I spent a LOT of money fighting this, but still had to surrender my 2nd amendment rights until the issue was settled. Innocent until proven guilty indeed.

This was a seminal event in souring me towards the judicial system, and local law enforcement in particular.

As a result, I don't put a lot of stock in accusations of domestic violence. Call me a "doubting Thomas". I want to see bruises.

I'm not getting all philosophical about this... I don't care if you think I am "right" or "wrong" about my belief concerning Domestic Violence. Yes, I know it really happens. Yes, I also feel it is deplorable.

Another example that comes to mind is my friend Ben, who was in an abusive relationship. This time the shoe was on the other foot, so to speak, as his ex wife was the aggressor...

He got fed up one time, had scratches and bruises all over him from fending off her psycho attack on him... He called the police.

Three hours later, after my wife and I bailed him out of jail.... You see where this is going?

In this situation, Dooper has personally met the shooter. He's spoken on the true character of the man (if you can call a wife-beater that), and I'm more than willing to take his word.

This guy isn't my hero... I'm big enough to admit when I am wrong, or jumped the gun. My emotions tend to run rampant when dealing with police brutality. I hear a new story every day, and like I said earlier, I'm truly concerned.

Like I said earlier... I don't instantly just "buy" it when somebody is accused of domestic violence. I just go with the facts given by the article, and then with a large grain of salt.

As far as I know, the cops could have said "Let's go get him back to the station, we'll figure out something to charge him with".... Wait, that kind of thing doesn't happen, does it Dooper?

Anyway, in summation... I'm sorry that six children have to grow up without fathers, but like has been mentioned in this thread by other posters... Looks like Darwin was right.

EDIT: As the reader may have guessed, I have some pretty strong opinions. That's all they are though- opinions. Beliefs. Don't fault me for not being a waffler. If I am truly wrong, I'll admit it, and did in this case.

It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you're not...



[edit on 28/4/09 by cbianchi513]

[edit on 28/4/09 by cbianchi513]

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Highground

 

Fair enough. But If I'm an LEO and I'm going after someone at a SHOOTING RANGE who is wanted for domestic battery(known violent tendency) I'm approaching with firepower. It just seems like common sense. If he's at the gun range he probably has a gun.

Yeah, I mean, obviously. I'm just saying that it seems to be a horrible tragedy, that the police were trying to be PC about everything, but it all backfired. This is one of those times when deadly force should have been pursued, but most likely as a result of all the press coverage of "bad shootings" by police, they were overly cautious.

sorry


[edit on 4/28/2009 by Blaine91555]

reply to post by cbianchi513


I don't see why that would make you jubilant that these two men were killed.

You see I have no remorse for men who beat people weaker than them. The abuse can be mental as well.

More Cops are killed responding to Domestic Violence calls than any other way. All these Cops have to assume the worst when dealing with these bullies and thugs.

reply to post by Blaine91555

Like I said, I don't have a lot of respect or sympathy for cops that were killed in a "fight or flight" situation. I wouldn't say I'm jubilant... Just had to have some facts and interjection pointed out to me. I am far from unreasonable.

As far as pity for the officers... They chose their profession. They should know the risks and proceed appropriately.

Save your pity for the orphans.

reply to post by cbianchi513


Somebody has to put on a badge and a gun to protect us. The alternative is Anarchy and a far more dangerous world.

When a person reaches the point of pulling a gun on the Police, you are dealing with the lowest of lifeforms IMO.

Yes there are bad Cops. They deal with humane waste all day long and no doubt it will affect their attitudes. I don't know why anyone does it, but I'm glad they do. I visited a lawless part of Mexico once and saw the opposite. It was not pretty and I was never so glad in my life as when I got back home where we have sanity and the rule of law.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by cbianchi513

 

Somebody has to put on a badge and a gun to protect us. The alternative is Anarchy and a far more dangerous world.

I'm not convinced that Anarchy would be that bad a thing, I consider myself to be a rational anarchist, if I had to nail down my political ideology.

When a person reaches the point of pulling a gun on the Police, you are dealing with the lowest of lifeforms IMO.

Tell that to the people that died at Ruby Ridge and Waco. Not saying they were right... That's just the other side of the coin.

Yes there are bad Cops. They deal with humane waste all day long and no doubt it will affect their attitudes. I don't know why anyone does it, but I'm glad they do.

I can't think of a situation aside from murder or rape that requires police intervention. The lobbyists are making practically everything a crime these days. Matters other than capital crimes should be settled with the "golden rule". Again- my opinion, which I am entitled to, right or wrong.

I visited a lawless part of Mexico once and saw the opposite. It was not pretty and I was never so glad in my life as when I got back home where we have sanity and the rule of law.

Anyone who's been to Mexico in general has seen lawlessness compared to US standards. I know what you mean, but you see my point?

Overregulation is the root cause, followed by poor training, improper motivation to become police officers, and plain foolishness.

Yeah, this has become a very sticky wicket. How 'bout we just agree to disagree, and leave the name calling at the door?

He was merely belligerent until he was tasered... at which point he went over the edge and began shooting.

This is one of those cases where physical restraint would have saved lives, and where use of a taser winds up in deaths.


Human beings are idiots, we react more like animals when injured or harmed, often losing all rational thought.

With this in mind, those who are unarmed feel helpless and will usually submit when tasered.
Those who are armed and capable of firing back... won't hesitate to do so after the incredible pain of being electrocuted.

In his mind, he was defending himself.
In the minds of the officers, they were using a device that's supposed to avoid un-necessary deaths.

... in the minds of taser company... they're laughing all the way to the bank.

Originally posted by cbianchi513

Bully for the shooter! One less power tripping a-hole drawing breath.

There is a lesson to learn here though... vests don't protect against head shots! Good shooting!

Score: common man- 2
heavily armed and armored police - 1

The fact they didn't just ban you outright for posting that was my first surprise, the "people" who gave you stars for it was my second.

Some very sick individuals in this forum.

reply to post by Retseh

Ahh, the beauty of free speech, and refraining from profanity and illegal activity.

Everyone here is entitled to their opinion. You have clearly stated yours, as have others.

As to all the stars... What's that tell you about the public perception of the police?

Read my other posts... I'm not as heartless as you think.

Originally posted by dooper
For six children, Daddy won't be coming home tonight.

That, sadly, is a consequence of the job.

One I'm sure the fellow was well aware of. As I said, Sadly. But still, not anything this guy was not aware of happening.

Originally posted by Highground
[
But this is where the damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't scenario comes in. He wasn't brandishing a weapon, it was apparently concealed.

At a shooting range?

Really?

They had no idea he was armed?

Come on...

Originally posted by cbianchi513

Funny story, this. There's always a backstory, and I think it's time to get it out there.

Five years ago I jilted a woman. Straight up left her for a younger, prettier, more slender model... Needless to say, she wanted a little revenge.

Yikes, if that is how you think a funny story starts, Im well to NOT read the rest of your diatribe.

Jesus christ.....

Common sense dictates that the best time to arrest a suspect at a firing range is when they are leaving. The gun is either safely stowed away or the suspect will attempt to hide the weapon to avoid being charged with going armed and losing the weapon. It also puts both officers behind the suspect and allows them to cover one another. I been there, done that.

Originally posted by cbianchi513
Ahh, the beauty of free speech, and refraining from profanity and illegal activity.

Everyone here is entitled to their opinion. You have clearly stated yours, as have others.

As to all the stars... What's that tell you about the public perception of the police?

Read my other posts... I'm not as heartless as you think.

Don't try and hide behind the free speech excuse, your comments were juvenile and disgusting.

Two men died trying to subdue a violent criminal and all you can say is "one less power tripping a-hole drawing breath".

As for the stars, that tells me nothing about the pubic perception of the police, it does tell me something about some of the nuts that we have in this forum.

I'm a big believer in karma, and what goes around comes around. You go ahead and smear away, I have no doubt that at some point it'll come right back at you, it always does in the end.

reply to post by Retseh


Save your sanctimonious moralizing for church. If you treat someone like an animal, they'll act like an animal. It's not idiotic or disgusting, it's nature. Go and punch a rottweiler, see what happens. Are you going to blame the dog for the consequences of that action? This is no different. If there was no indication that this man would get violent, then there was no need for the taser. Bring him in, charge him with something and give him a fair trial. What's that called...oh yeah, due process. These cops made a horrible mistake, and they paid horribly. How's that for Karma?

Originally posted by Retseh

Two men died trying to subdue a violent criminal and all you can say is "one less power tripping a-hole drawing breath".

As for the stars, that tells me nothing about the pubic perception of the police, it does tell me something about some of the nuts that we have in this forum.

Lets call a spade a spade here... These policemen were not trying to "subdue" the suspect. They tased him. BIG difference. You ever been tased? Subdued? When you have, come back and give us a discourse on the differences.

I, on the other hand, have experienced BOTH... I would say that allows me to speak from personal experience.

As to the karma... what effect will throwing thinly veiled insults at board members have on yours?

Now who's juvenile and asinine?

Originally posted by badw0lf

Originally posted by Highground
[
But this is where the damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't scenario comes in. He wasn't brandishing a weapon, it was apparently concealed.

At a shooting range?

Really?

They had no idea he was armed?

Come on...

It was a clay range. One generally shoots rifles and shotguns at clay targets.

As much as the police frustrate me, they are really people like us who have been bred into a pack mentality of us vs. them. For all I know, the slain police may have been one of the rare officers out there who is on our side. They aren't all totally brainwashed. And even the ones who are usually have misdirected good intentions.The NWO wants a bloody confrontation between the police and military and the way to defeat it is to make both sides realize they are in this together.
The strangeness of this story makes me agree that this may be a staged event. They are claiming he was tased for 5 seconds, and then sprang up and started shooting? Yet I also read that he flipped his truck and ran out shooting using the truck for cover.

Gentlemen, gentlemen.

The guy was out by his truck in the parking lot, no gun in sight. He was a big guy, and apparently had a weapon on him, concealed. Unlawfully.

He had worked various jobs, including as a bouncer. He was always let go because he "wasn't right" and scared his fellow workers.

He had a history of beating women. He had just beat his wife over a damn tube of Clearasil he couldn't find.

The officers caught up with him in the parking lot of the shooting range. He wasn't armed for all appearances, and he was not on the firing line.

He spoke with the officers, and when they told him they had to bring him in, he wouldn't cooperate, and resisted being handcuffed.

Only then did the officers resort to the taser.

A big ol' boy, when they released the voltage, he came up firing at everything, even while on his back, shooting over his head. He also hit a storage building and a car that belonged to someone that was on the firing line.

He jumped into his truck, and the second officer snatched open the passenger door, trying to pull him out, and that's when he was shot.

Miscalculations? Maybe.

The road was to the south, the clubhouse was to the east, and the firing line where people were shooting, was to the north.

The officers were unable to just open up, as they were concerned about where those bullets would be flying.

The turd didn't care.

And that made the difference in his favor.

When the officers in the next county got the word that officers were down, they weren't about to let that SOB get away.

And he didn't.

[edit on 28-4-2009 by dooper]