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Perle Says France 'No Longer An Ally'

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posted on Feb, 5 2003 @ 10:10 AM
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WASHINGTON (UPI) -- France is no longer an ally of the United States and the NATO alliance "must develop a strategy to contain our erstwhile ally or we will not be talking about a NATO alliance" the head of the Pentagon's top advisory board said in Washington Tuesday.

Richard Perle, a former assistant secretary of defense in the Reagan administration and now chairman of the Pentagon's Policy Advisory Board, condemned French and German policy on Iraq in the strongest terms at a public seminar organized by Iraqi exiles and American Middle East and security officials.

Link - www.rense.com...




posted on Feb, 5 2003 @ 10:31 AM
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More pro-Israeli drivel: just do some some research on the appalling Perle, friend of Kissinger and light of the Jerusalem Post and that well-known Arab institution CNN, deep-w.
Incidentally -at least since de Gaulle, France has gone to great pains NOT to be thought of as an "ally" of the USA. Read up on the history of NATO. After Vietnam, Indochina, Suez, who can blame Johnny Frog?
Perle is venom in America's blood.



posted on Feb, 5 2003 @ 02:26 PM
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While I can;t comment on Perle since I know nothing of him I do this. The U.S. begrudgingly backed France in Indochina after WW II. 80% of the money France spent in trying to keep their little empire was U.S. funds (Halberstam, The Best and the Brightest ). The U.S. did this ander the asupices of the Marshall Plan and said (knowing it was a lie) that France was fighting Ho not for reclaimation of colonial glory but to stamp out communism. France got there @sses handed to them at Diem Bien Phu and the U.S. was pretty much drug into the war due to the French. PLease don't say that they dislike the U.S. because of Vietnam since they were the ones who got the U.S. there in the first place.



posted on Feb, 5 2003 @ 02:28 PM
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BTW. How many Frenchmen does it take to hold Paris?






NO ONE KNOWS!!!!!

HAHAHA.... lord I'm a history geek



posted on Feb, 5 2003 @ 02:32 PM
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After what seems to be constant French ingratitude for the US saving them a few times, I wouldn't fault Perle for stating what most Americans believe to be already. The alliance seems to be one way to me and always has been.

[Edited on 5-2-2003 by Bob88]



posted on Feb, 5 2003 @ 02:42 PM
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I have to agree with Estragon on this.Perle's view of US foreign policy is one that sustains and supports Israel primarily at the expense of all else.France,because of it's old empire,is Arabist.
France,since the end of WW2, recognised that the old imperial order was waning and Suez in 1956 confirmed it was over.Since then it has worked to build a European Power that it could hopefully dominate or at the very least have major influence within.

I've just remembered an Article in The Sunday Times entitled"Americans are from Mars,Europeans are from Venus"I didn't agree with it's final hypothesis but it is an interesting read I'll find it and post a link.One interesting point in it was a quote by a British Diplomat on US foreign Policy that:"When you have a big hammer all problems look like nails"conversely it could be said of Europeans that"When you have no hammer ,through wishful thinking,All problems appear extremely un-nail like"

France is not an enemy of the USA it is just standing in a different place and therefore has a different perspective.

And Perle is poison after 9/11 he was UK TV virtually every day.Right now he is keeping a low profile as his message is unlikely to garner support for war here in Britain.



posted on Feb, 5 2003 @ 08:03 PM
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...I find Frances stance a little ironic...given they are one of the few countries who have committed an act of Terrorism upon an Ally...when a pair of French Special Forces agents snuck into NZ waters and blew up the Greenpeace vessel, Rainbow Warrior, while it was moored, killing a crew-member onboard.



posted on Feb, 5 2003 @ 09:09 PM
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On the subject of the French (I'll skip Indochina: the history's out there) it's worth remembering that -unlike Britain - they have no "natural" affinity (spare us LaFayette) with the US: a bond of shared language, culture, history, literature and so on.
It i also worth remembering that -while technically a "victorious Ally" France actually finished WWII with a bitter legacy of defeat, collaboration and occupation quite unknown to the Anglo-Saxons.
France relinquished its empire most grudgingly: N. Africa, Indochina: France never had dominions of "cousins" such as Canada, Oz and NZ for Britain -although the French spend a fortune on promoting the language in former colonies, treat odd Caribbean islands as part of France, and so forth: there is no equivalent -for beter or worse -of a Commonwealth.
Similarly: in a century their langauge has gone from being the international langauge of diplomacy to nothing: anyone aware of the efforts the French make to keep English out of their speech and media will be aware of this.
France has, therefore, been obliged -or felt itself to be obliged -to develop a strong independent posture within a European context. This has necessitated keeping a distance from the Anglo-Saxons and trying to remove the threat of a hostile Germany. When De Gaulle famously claimed his nukes were deployed to "tous azimuths" (all horizons) - he meant it to be interpreted as a warning to all sides, not just the Warsaw Pact. (a bluff, of course but that isn't what
matters).
In the same way, France has developed its nuclear arm with scant regard for the rest of the world; France maintained an independent posture within NATO; France has a formidable weapons industry; France has persisted with Space Research.
It is not entirely reasonable to assume that Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand will go along at every point with the US. It is however, quite unreasonable to expect instant co-operation from the French.
Even if Perle were not the viperous Zionistic warmonger that he is, he should realise that, and it is to be deprecated that his media chums have yet to feel any need to challenge his lies or to educate their consumers in alternative possibilities.



posted on Feb, 5 2003 @ 09:13 PM
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This is no apologia for Johnny Frog, Chirac and his band of scoundrels, or France's dirty dealings in its former colonies.
Rather, it is one of Estragon's usual pleas for a sense of history before rushing into judgement or worse -swallowing vile propaganda.



posted on Feb, 5 2003 @ 09:23 PM
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France has never been an ally of anyone, it just enters into marriages of convienience.

Take a look at the trouble the Pacific went to to close down Mueroa Atoll, where they were conducting nucleur tests in our backyard. - being too gutless to conduct them in france.

The only good place for a frenchman is in the kitchen!



posted on Feb, 5 2003 @ 09:32 PM
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Absolutely so, N-C: France has "natural" enemies - not allies.



posted on Feb, 5 2003 @ 09:53 PM
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Oh no...we are going to lose all 6 soldiers the boat and both ultralights!!!!!!!



posted on Feb, 5 2003 @ 10:03 PM
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After Estragons expressed dislike of Perle, I thought I I would do a bit of reading about him.

Found this...
www.arabnews.com...


served as an assistant defense secretary during the Reagan administration and was known as the ìPrince of Darkness,"



ìBasically, Perle is serving as the ventriloquistís dummy and is making the administrationís case publicly but in a deniable fashion,î says John Pike, a defense policy specialist and a known adversary of Perle. ìDonald Rumsfeld adamantly refuses to talk about blowing up Iraq. Richard Perle talks about very little else.î



Since September 11, Perleís message has not changed: Sept. 11 has ìnothing to doî with the reasons why the United States should strike Saddam. So the minor links provided by the administration to establish Saddamís connections with Al-Qaeda are immaterial.

ìWhat is relevant here is that he hates the United States,î Perle told the American Spectator last autumn. ìHe has weapons of mass destruction. He has used them against his own people and would not hesitate to use them against us.î


If the arabs hate him, and they do according to the rest of the article, then its a good reason to listen to what he has to say


[Edited on 6-2-2003 by Netchicken]



posted on Feb, 6 2003 @ 04:42 AM
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HUM !

I fell sick about what you are saying about FRANCE !
Have you forgotten that we helped you to fight ENGLISH during INDEPENDANCE WAR ?

Truth is that our actually governement is corrupted, it's true !

Even our president, Jacques CHIRAC is implicated and accused, in public, to stole money. HE CAN GO TO JAIL !
INSTEAD HE IS PRESIDENT !!!

Another reason is that FRANCE and GERMANY haven't got enought MONEY to engage in a war.

And last but not least TRUTH :

Your BUSHES (BUSHWAKERS? I' A WWWF fan!)
JUST WANT TO MAKE WAR TO IRAQ :

NONE OF TERRORISM (For terrorism, it's in SAUDI ARABIA that ALQAEDA as camps)

NONE OF MASS DESTRUCTIONS WEAPONS (INDIA got a NUCLEAR ARSENAL, USA don't even make war to INDIA...)

The only REASON is SADDAM !




BUSH FAMILY vs SADDAM FAMILY!

HANS BLIX KNOWS IT
GERARD SHRODER KNOWS IT
JACQUES CHIRAC KNOWS IT and
COLIN POWELL FAINT TO IGNORE IT !

BABYBUSH is an IDIOT, A CONGENITAL TRISOMID-21 SILLY RABBIT!
DADDYBUSH made war to IRAQ
BABYBUSH wants a war with IRAQ

THAT'S ALL.



posted on Feb, 6 2003 @ 05:32 AM
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Originally posted by Bob88
After what seems to be constant French ingratitude for the US saving them a few times, I wouldn't fault Perle for stating what most Americans believe to be already. The alliance seems to be one way to me and always has been.



Well, I'm not sure that the French don't like the USA.

But I'm sure that they don't like the fact and the idea that they had to cry for the USA help to save their a$$ 2 times ( WW1 & WW2 ).



Originally posted by Netchicken

1) France has never been an ally of anyone, it just enters into marriages of convienience.

2) Take a look at the trouble the Pacific went to to close down Mueroa Atoll, where they were conducting nucleur tests in our backyard. - being too gutless to conduct them in france.

3) If the arabs hate him, and they do according to the rest of the article, then its a good reason to listen to what he has to say


1) Netchicken, if you know a country who's acting on a different way, let us know it.


2) You weren't crying when Great-Britain was testing her own nukes on your soil and you didn't say anything when the Chicoms were testing their nukes. And China is not so far from you, right ?


3) I agree.


And you Nans, just stay cool.


Because when I see that France is ALLWAYS anti-USA in all occasions, I understand why the americans don't like France anymore. If the USA were allied with God and in war against Hell, I bet that France will try to sign a treaty with Satan just because the USA signed one with God.


The USA are not responsible of the France situation. France IS responsible.



posted on Feb, 6 2003 @ 07:01 AM
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I don't know whether to fault Chirac for being against a war - or admire him for being against a war. It certainly appears the public opinion in France is 'against the war' and if that's the will of the French people then Chirac is properly representing them. He must be under enourmous pressure from Blair. However, it seems if Chirac overts a war then French oil companies stand to gain on oil dealings they've been working on with the current Iraqi regime. Why can't we all get along on how to divide up the oil fairly after Saddam is ousted?


Americans love to rip on France: 'we saved their rears so many times, etc, etc.' I can't help doing that myself.
But, they did give us a bit of help many, many years earlier with those pesky Redcoats, lol.



posted on Feb, 6 2003 @ 07:10 AM
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Test your knowledge of the ups and downs in the neighbourly relations between the UK and France.

Link - news.bbc.co.uk...



posted on Feb, 6 2003 @ 07:39 AM
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True indeed, N-C, that a manís enemies tell us more about him, at times, than his friends; but you will find that disgust at this unelected chickenhawk is not unknown amongst those who can happily have bacon with their eggs.
Just a taste here of the whole ensemble for political newbies.
www.dbr.nu...
Search something like ìPerle + liesî, fellow-posters.



posted on Feb, 6 2003 @ 07:41 AM
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It's been anything BUT "Adults in Charge" as our weak hearted Vice President blustered upon sitting in the Usurped seat of power. The most glaring evidence of this is what unsuccessfully passes for policy 'leaks' from this White House: get some ultra right wing statement into the press by any one of several wanks & cranks from these 'policy institutes' that steer Dim Son, see if it has legs, if so - they parrot it, if not - they have plausible denial that it's not 'official' White House position.
I just wish they'd stop drawing " Lord of the Flies" analogies in my head with their missteps.



posted on Feb, 6 2003 @ 07:49 AM
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Frenchmen have no guts and no glory, their pride is only skin deep and they make me sick....All the frenchpeople do is bitch about the rest of the world and how the US is fat and lazy, they laugh at us like they're so much better-HA. The only reason the French helped us in the Revolutionary war was for their own personal gain and the fact Britain would not be a part of the western continents. Hey anyone want a country? I hear if you go to france with some guns everyone will surrender right away.




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