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Turkey hopes to buy S-400 air defense systems from Russia

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posted on May, 8 2009 @ 08:50 PM
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umm this topic is about Turkey trying to get S-400 (not likely) and is NOT about who's what better... Rogue and WestPoint....




posted on May, 9 2009 @ 08:15 PM
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Well we really couldn't stop them if we wanted to. They probably did not want patriot because we never sell the fully capable one to other countries.

the S-400 has a nice missile, Skiddish RADAR. It's as simple as that. Plus now that we are layered with THAAD and AEGIS. Besides the Patriot doesn't have to be better than the S-400. It just needs to be better than the Russian air force.

PATRIOT 9 for 9 in OIF......

S-400 got through testing..........



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 06:30 AM
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Actually the US also claims quite often their systems are more effective than they actually are. The patriot being the prime example. THe S-400 is a better system than the patriot, simple as that.

There is not a whole lot of data on the capabilities of the S-400 versus Patriot therefore calling either better is simply fanciful thinking. The Patriot and S-400 are not even direct competitors, IIRC, Patriot is geared for BMD and has half the range of S-400.


www.cdi.org...


of recent evidence - there is actually serioss doubt as to whether the patriot hit anything other than allied aircraft in GW1

PAC-1 is a fair bit different from PAC-2 GEM+ & PAC-3, neither has S-400 or S-300 even engaged anything.

[edit on 10/5/2009 by C0bzz]



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 06:39 AM
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I think Turkey has just lost is great options with cooperation with east!

- No S-400 missiles to Turkey either...

Pipeline for Gas From the Caspian Sea

The agreement, signed by the leaders of Azerbaijan, Georgia, Turkey and Egypt at a summit meeting in Prague, centers on the 2,000-mile Nabucco pipeline, which would bring Central Asian gas to Europe without passing through Russian territory.

www.nytimes.com...



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by C0bzz
 


I think that's not entirely unfair but would you agree that the legacy Russian Sam systems that the S-300 ( Same thing , new name) are replacing have seen far,far, far more combat testing in foreign hands than American/western systems have? I am always surprised when people say that the S-300/random-weapon-system is 'untested' ( as if the patriot's 'testing' enabled it to shoot down world war two era rockets; ) because it has not seen combat when there are so many factors involved. I think all nations test their weapons systems to one degree or another ( despite the best effort of the military industrial complexes) but in the end it comes down to how much direct 'combat experience' the design bureau in question has to draw on and what specs/role it must meet.

Whatever the direct anologies that can be drawn between their specifications just the mobility of the S-300 family would make my choice certain. As for the claim that the S-300 family ( S-400) isn't or wasn't designed with BMD in mind i have in the past provided a great deal of information that show the contrary to be true.

Stellar



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 12:46 AM
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Whatever the direct anologies that can be drawn between their specifications just the mobility of the S-300 family would make my choice certain. As for the claim that the S-300 family ( S-400) isn't or wasn't designed with BMD in mind i have in the past provided a great deal of information that show the contrary to be true.

Stellar

Never said it wasn't BMD - but the Patriot is pretty much dedicated to it especially the PAC-3.

[edit on 11/5/2009 by C0bzz]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 02:21 AM
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reply to post by C0bzz
 


only the PAC-3 has that ability , and its unproven , giving the source i cited prevously about how ineffective all the versions of the Patriot were during the gulf war:


the MM-104 Patriot was designed to engage theatre missiles , during the 1980`s software upgrades both large (new system called PAC-1) and small upgraded how the radar searched and tracked - which it completely failed at doing in GW1, then along came the PAC-2 , apparantly `fixing` the faults of the PAC-1


PAC-2

this was first deployed in 1990 as IOC , and the very first units equipped were rushed to the middle east and , well , we all know how that turned out, but as a test of viable BMD it was classed as a success - how though is way beyond me as it didn`t actually hit anything


GEM (and all the addon letters) of upgrades are a simple `guidance enhanced` series of software upgrades (yet again) - the latest being /C or /T (cruise or terminal)

btw whoever mentioned ` 9 for 9` in GW2 - you include the blue on blue kills for that? oh wait - NO you didn`t.


as for PAC-3 , the entire system has been redone from teh ground up - really they need to change the name as `Patriot` is all thats left of the previous systms.


bit like the russians and there confusing (on purpose) names for aircraft.

[edit on 11/5/09 by Harlequin]



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by Harlequin

btw whoever mentioned ` 9 for 9` in GW2 - you include the blue on blue kills for that? oh wait - NO you didn`t.


He did, they were the 9 from 9



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 01:51 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Jun, 24 2009 @ 03:59 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Russian claims, legendary. Israel showed what a skillful and resource rich military can do to such systems when it raided Syria unchallenged and destroyed its would be reactor. Things have progressed, claimed specifications make for nice selling points. However if its networks, even closed ones, are vulnerable to standoff infiltration then it's just another target on the ground. Furthermore, Russia is not going to sell Turkey an S-400 unit, the profit to risk ratio of such a sale is out of whack.

[edit on 27-4-2009 by WestPoint23]


First, let me just lol.

Whatever air defense systems Syria has of Russian origin, are not worth comparing to the same or similar or other systems in Russian service, and even those in service in Greece.

Firstly, there is the issue of training and actual ability to use. The Arabs have not been very good users of modern military equipment. They may have the money to splash out for fancy weapons, but they are unable to put them to effective use.

Secondly, I doubt Russia would have sold the Syrians top notch equipment, or equipment as capable as it's own in service.

Thirdly, see the other response from another poster on page one.

Finally, you may recall the massive air exercises Greece and Israel held a while ago. It was the biggest exercise Israel had held outside of it's borders, hundreds of jets involved. While there is a 99% chance the Greeks did not show Israel the S300 in these exercises, there is a good chance they showed them some things that will help them in some possible up coming scenarios.

As for Turkey buying the S400, very funny. The only western country it has actually been offered to(reportedly), was Greece, and that was during a meeting with the Greek PM before Medvedev took over Putin's role. Putin also offered Iskander, and BMP3M, which they went on to do a deal for 400+ BMP3M which needs to be finalised.

There is no valid indication from Russia that they are willing to offer Turkey even the S300, let alone the newer S400. All talk of Turkey and Russian air defense systems is coming out of Turkish media. The Turkish media is notorious for dodgy reporting. Recently they have come up with the idea that Turkey will buy Russian attack helicopters.

It will be years before Turkey does anything on this anyway. It's taken them at least a decade to decide on an attack helicopter. If Greece however upgrades to S400, expect Turkey to rush to get PAC3 or some other western system.

And those who are questioning Turkey buying Russian weapons.
Firstly, let me say Greece and Cyprus are two western countries that already use Russian weapons.
There is also aerospace co-operation between French and Russian firms.
And Turkey already operates Russian IFV's and a handful of helicopters, as well as small arms.
They also have an order for Russian Kornet-E.

[edit on 24-6-2009 by BLV12]



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