Air Force One Backup Rattles New York Nerves

reply to post by Agit8dChop


I voted for Obama. Never thought he was the messiah. I think this was a huge mistake, completely uncalled for, ill planned, and carelessly devoid of empathy for how the citizens of NY would react.

reply to post by weedwhacker

Originally posted by weedwhacker

I think the intent was clear.

GWB brought a lot of the cascade of ridicule down on himself, all by himself. Didn't need any outside influences to instigate. Need only refer to the 'Bushisms' for examples.

By George I think you've got it!
You're right.
I should know by now that Bush can never do anything right and Obama can NEVER do anything wrong.
I'm sorry, it won't happen again.

But I think you should also know that these Obamaism's are growing in number.

Talk about a "puppet"!!!!! I bring, to the Jury, the morning of September 11, 2001. A school room, in Florida. A trusted Aide whispers into your ear, "The Country is Under Attack!" (This, after the second hit on the WTC). YOU are the POTUS.

WHAT would you do?!?

WOULD you sit there? OR, being a 'statesman', would you instead make a very clever excuse to leave the room immediately, and apologize in a way that children would understand, if you knew how children's minds worked.

NO! Instead, you sit there for nearly seven minutes...NOT seconds!! MINUTES!!!!

THIS harkens back to the 'Three-AM Phone call', doesn't it?? Imagine GWB, being awakened at 0300...would he have made a decision in seven minutes??? Or, would it have taken longer????

Hmmm, I probably would have delegated Cheney to look into the the matter.
HELL I DON'T KNOW!
I don't want to rehash what has been discussed here many times over but you probably would have wanted him to setup some meetings to discuss the matter just like Obama did before he acted on the Somali pirates.

What was it again? Seven meetings in four days?

Let me think about that for a second; 7 meetings, 7 minutes, 7 meetings, 7 minutes,...????

Guess I'll have to get back with you on that, better yet, read this while I think about it.

Despite the Obama administrations (and its sycophants) attempt to spin yesterdays success as a result of bold, decisive leadership by the inexperienced president, the reality is nothing of the sort. What should have been a standoff lasting only hours as long as it took the USS Bainbridge and its team of NSWC operators to steam to the location became an embarrassing four day and counting standoff between a ragtag handful of criminals with rifles and a U.S. Navy warship.

Air Force one flying low in New York is creepy. Now how about here in Detroit we had 4 military jets flying very low over detroit and speeding off at fast speeds scaring the crap out of people for a week. I have never heard anything so loud in my life. I thought an earthquake was about to take place.

Also here in Detroit there are helicopters that have been flying extremely low and circling neighborhoods. This is also very loud and disturbing.

Maybe the elite believe they have us where they want us and can now start moving in with more aggressive force. Or maybe these jets and helicopters are flying low enough to dump Swine Flu on us.

this all certainly qualifies as psychological abuse. we are jerked this way and that. sometimes an explanation, sometimes not. empty apologies (it'll never happen again), blame assigned to underling or past president (it wasn't my fault, it was his), excessive spending that puts the country in jeopardy of financial ruin (I had to spend that, it's for our own good), humiliation (we've been a bad, bad country but you can trust me to fix everything), contradictory accusations (no more war on terror, vets and conservatives are potential terrorists), non sequitur cause and effect (financial institutions need bailouts and to make sure this doesn't happen again we will have green energy, universal healthcare, and universal education through college)

we are constantly being shuttled between fright and reassurances, confused with nonsensical reasoning.

a few people have said we are being conditioned. for sure.

it would have been kind of neat if someone had shot down that plane thinking it was an enemy attack. this was the opposite of crying wolf. next time it happens will people be expecting a photo op or a "overseas contingency incident" on american soil?

I heard about this today from coworkers, and didnt see ANYTHING on TV prior to that. I saw on every channel the Arlen Spechter swichover scandal...but nothing about this.

I had to watch the news for 45 min at lunch to finally see a report on it.
But CNN was glued to BO's town hall meeting.

I just dont understand how you can get fined for driving to fast in a car, but planes...anyaircraft is tolerated to fly over populated areas.

FFA FDA...HA what a bunch of freaking clowns. People should be charged with wreckless endangerment, and who knows what else they should be charged with. Lawlessness, carelessness. it just feels like a big slap in the face. I think its time we took the toys away from these kiddies, and send them into the corner for a long over due time out.

Here is a question and a thought.

If this plane is the backup for Air Force 1, why didn't they name it Air Force 2?

reply to post by Alxandro


I believe that Air Force 2 is the plane reserved for the Vice President. Perhaps we could call the backup: Air Force 1.2.

According to CBS:
CBS 2 HD has discovered the feds will have plenty to question.

Federal officials knew that sending two fighter jets and a 747 from the presidential fleet to buzz ground zero and Lady Liberty might set off nightmarish fears of a 9/11 replay, but they still ordered the photo-op kept secret from the public.

In a memo obtained by CBS 2 HD, the Federal Aviation Administration's James Johnston said the agency was aware of "the possibility of public concern regarding DOD (Department of Defense) aircraft flying at low altitudes" in an around New York City. But they demanded total secrecy from the NYPD, the Secret Service, the FBI and even the mayor's office and threatened federal sanctions if the secret got out.

reply to post by w7en-us


I find the federal sanctions bit especially interesting. I googled the phrase federal sanctions and it appears to mean cutting off federal funding to anybody who doesn't cooperate with the feds orders. So how can the feds threaten to cut off funding to all these agencies if they told the public about an upcoming photo op? it makes no sense. I think this was gratuitous use of threatening federal sanctions. Surely that is not lawful. Surely the feds can't threaten this for just anything. Does anybody know if there are laws governing "federal sanctions"?

reply to post by earlywatcher


AF1 and AF2 are call signs....The aircraft is SAM (special air missions) 28000, 29000, etc. If the President is onboard 28000 (or any other AF aircraft) , the call sign is AF1, if the VP is onboard, any aircraft is AF2.......

Originally posted by earlywatcher
reply to post by w7en-us

 

I find the federal sanctions bit especially interesting. I googled the phrase federal sanctions and it appears to mean cutting off federal funding to anybody who doesn't cooperate with the feds orders. So how can the feds threaten to cut off funding to all these agencies if they told the public about an upcoming photo op? it makes no sense.

Another possibilty is that it was an emergency drill of some sort for the airforce or one to see how the general public would respond. If they confirmed it was a drill now then if it happened again people might assume "it's just a drill" and become complacent like they do when workplaces have fire drills.

..actually that doesn't make sense as it wouldn't help if people just assumed it was a photo op either.

So they knew ahead of time that this (publicity?) stunt would scare the crap out of people.. many of whome would have PTSD? Whats to be gained by that? just speculating. It may have been postering for foreign govenments to let them know the military is still willing to waste money despite being up that creek.

[edit on 30-4-2009 by riley]

drill?
training?
photo shoot?

who gives a ****??

this is absurd

watching the one video posted of the people running in terror as they watch the planes is disgusting

we the people should demand someones head for this

jobs need to be lost over this, policies need to be changed

no one in my opinion has the right to do perform such an ignorant act

the fact we the people are even accepting "official answers" is pathetic and shows the people of the united states are absolutely pathetic

that is fear mongering at its most extreme level


for all we know there may be some crazed "patriot" waiting with some form of weapon to blow a plane out of the sky to "protect" ny from another plane type attack

who knows?? i dont

yea that possibility is far fetched but who knows if its true or not?

all thats known is the action that took place will provoke fear into every person there, and will bring back horrific memories of people who lived through our nations worst day


maybe im being drastic here, but anyone who allowed this should be fired immediately, and that includes obama and his entire administration

anyone who allowed that to take place, anyone who had knowledge of the event prior to it taking place, and didnt do anything to stop it, should be fired and arrested for terrorism

people are being imprisoned right now this very day for a lot less

if obama knew about it, he should be impeached immediately

for if he is that stupid to allow that to happen, he has absolutely NO right running this country and making important decisions when he could make such a stupidly ignorant decision like that (if he did have prior knowledge)

we the people should demand answers, and if not given any, we should raise hell

reply to post by Dramey


I'm with you on this, but the last time I checked this story had completely dropped out of the news. Some of us don't accept the photo op excuse but all those who "trust" the president with anything and everything have already forgotten about it. Not exactly forgotten. They shake their heads and say it was stupid. end of story.

I think we can assume that Caldera, the guy who is officially taking the blame, is not authorized to sign off on a low level flight into a major american city. so who did? obama insists that he "didn't know" until we did. I personally don't buy that but then who did sign off on it? Is this classified? if so, why? If not classified, why can we know the true nature of the mission. If it was really just practice for those rookie pilots...of course not a great place to practice.

As far as anybody losing his job, it hasn't happened with anybody involved in the financial meltdown, until the president decides they need to go that is, so don't hold your breath that there will be the slightest breath of accountability.

the media is done with this story. we can only hope tidbits will surface to gather.

I found a update on it from here:www.worldnetdaily.com...

An Air Force officer who served in the Clinton White House and for two years carried the "nuclear football" briefcase of codes says it's almost certain that the "highest levels" of the Obama administration knew about and approved this week's stunt in which Air Force One buzzed New York City.

Retired Lt. Col. Buzz Patterson served in Clinton's White House from 1996 to 1998 and was responsible for the president's "emergency satchel," the black bag of nuclear codes that accompanies the president at all times.

He wrote "Reckless Disregard" and "Dereliction of Duty" after his retirement from the military.

During an interview on "The Andrea Shea King Show" last night, he said, "I can't imagine that anyone who works in the Air Force thought that was a good idea. I have worked in the White House and having worked for the Military Office, with the guys at Andrews Air Force Base and the ground crews, that (decision) had to come down from on high."

"It defies my belief that the White House staff did not know they were launching the 747 to go up and do this. So it had to come down from the White House. It wouldn't have been done on behalf of the folks at Andrews (Air Force Base). It would have been done at the direction of the White House," he said.

Patterson said the low-flying escapade over Manhattan clearly was not an oversight.
Does that mean the president also knew?

"I'm guessing he probably did. Did Emanuel know about it? I guarantee you he did. It did not come from the Andrews folks. It came from on high," Patterson said.

"No doubt Caldera is taking the hit for this… that's kind of how the Obama administration works, much like the Clinton administration – they have to push this down to the lowest level that it'll actually stick. So they had to push this down to 'Who can we cut loose?' And I guarantee you he’ll be fired within the next week or two. This façade of an investigation and a review of what happened will end up on his desktop and he'll be fired. … But it probably wasn't his fault. It probably came from above, and he was the person, the lackey, executing the orders to do this. He called Andrews and the Andrews Wing Commander got involved and the president's pilot squadron got involved and so this thing happened. So he'll probably be the guy that's the scapegoat."

As I stated in a previous post - I do not for one minute believe the govt. was that stupid - I believe it was done to bring back the "terror" feeling in people. So people will once again cling to their govt. officials so the officials can get what they want from the people.

It was a staged remember what it felt like terror attack.

reply to post by questioningall


hooray for you! great find! validates reasoning on this thread. caldera could not have been decision maker; lots of FAA coordination necessary to make this happen; white house out of touch because they don't take seriously the war on terror; obama likes playing with his man toys.

still unknown is why they didn't schedule this flight for sunday when nobody would be at work; why they buzzed the goldman sachs building at least twice; why it was "classified" and why federal sanctions were threatened if fbi, nypd, secret service, ormayor's office let anybody know ahead of time that it would happen

I still say, we don't know the real reason for this mission. Keep digging people!

Here's another update, this time from the website of aviation photographer David Cenciotti.

Something similar happened on Apr. 27, 2009, when the Presidential Airlift Group conducted a photo mission above New York City involving the VC-25 and an F-16 between the 10.00L and 10.30L. The flight was coordinated by the Defense Department and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and notifications were sent to the emergency centers, to the NY Police Deparment and to the New Jersey State Police (plus a few more operations centers in the area) but people didn’t expect to see a fighter escorting a wide-body (one of the two flying for the POTUS as the “Air Force One”) above Battery Park City and the Hudson River. The sight of the two aircraft frightened residents and workers in Manhattan who called 911 and other authorities asking for information. Some buildings even self evacuated.

lots more details in the article
David Cenciotti's website

still doesn't tell us why on a workday, why circle goldman sachs, why the secrecy

reply to post by questioningall


questioning, you DO realize your 'source' is from a truly right-wing ultra-conservative site, don't you?

Anyway, reading the entire article, you missed the main point, the one about Rahm Emmanuel (though his name was mentioned in the part you quoted). The full text seems to implicate him more specifically.

I still think this was a boneheaded move, but I do believe that it was just a major SNAFU, with no ulterior motives.

just an idea, but we all seem to be upset over this and nothing seems to be happening as far as anyone being punished goes

so my suggestion is maybe someone with some experience in running a petition can start one up

even if it just starts here on ats, hopefully we can all pass it on to our friends and family who arent involved with this site to sign on also, maybe with enough petitions they will be forced to give us more answers

maybe im being naive that will work

but im not necessarily saying it will work, just a possibility, and its better then nothing

i just think if we allow this to have happened with no retribution, then we will be in for a great deal more

"There's gotta be a little gallows humor to get you through the day." President Obama.

If Obama found the financial meltdown that funny, he probably thinks this is hilarious. Just love that gallows humour.

I believe Obama did know about this as that Clinton Admin said.
But I guess time will tell.

[edit on 2-5-2009 by Flighty]

They just reported on Fox News (cable) that the US Air Force will NOT be releasing the photos of this NYC event.

So they wasted over $300,000 for this "photo op" and scared a lot of people for nothing.

Interesting.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by Walkswithfish]