Mandatory Community Service at Iowa Highschool

reply to post by LiquidLight


There is a ton of difference between a parent forcing their child to do chores and a public school system or government forcing a child to do community service.

If you are unable to see the difference in that, then we'll have to agree we have totally different world views and leave it at that.

A parent has the right to have their child do chores or do community service or go to school or whatever the case may be (within the bounds of the law of course). However a public school system or government has no right to do these things, especially in the United States. I don't care if doing so teaches these kids the best values in the world or teaches them to kill their fellow man, it's forced servitude any way you slice it.

[edit on 4/27/09 by Hypntick]

Originally posted by Hypntick
Glad when I was in high school they didn't require that sort of thing. Nor did my college. Nor does my job.

Of course on the other side of the coin, I also don't believe that education should be forced either. If you don't want to learn anything, you shouldn't have to.

One should never force another human being to become something more. If you have to be forced into community service you're honestly not helping the community much at all. You'll be uninterested and not in the least bit concerned about helping your fellow man.

If you're not interested in bettering yourself, you shouldn't be forced into that position. Kinda interferes with that whole life, liberty and pursuit of happiness thing.

Well, children don't really have the capability of fully processing the consequences of their actions until early adulthood, since the part of the brain that does so isn't fully developed until then.

This is why (and this is in another thread, as well) giving children the ability to make important decisions on their own is a bad idea. Should they be able to have input? Sure, but the final say should be on the parent.

reply to post by LiquidLight


Well i'm glad we agree that important choices should be on the parent and not the child. It also shouldn't be on the school system or government, they're no more well informed than a single child is.

Ontario, Canada school have had the students do a manditory 40 hours community service in order to graduate and recieve diploma for years now.

It is a fairly good idea. Not bad, 40 hours to complete within 4 years isn't a lot to ask a kid.

reply to post by LiquidLight


The kids receive from their parents a roof, food, clothing, etc...

It's evident that either you are confused, or you see the government as parent and/or family.

You are comparing apples, and oranges. [SNIP]

Mod Edit: Reaffirming productive political debate.



[edit on 18-8-2009 by Gemwolf]

Originally posted by Hypntick
reply to post by LiquidLight

 

There is a ton of difference between a parent forcing their child to do chores and a public school system or government forcing a child to do community service.

If you are unable to see the difference in that, then we'll have to agree we have totally different world views and leave it at that.

A parent has the right to have their child do chores or do community service or go to school or whatever the case may be (within the bounce of the law of course). However a public school system or government has no right to do these things, especially in the United States. I don't care if doing so teaches these kids the best values in the world or teaches them to kill their fellow man, it's forced servitude any way you slice it.

When we drop our kids off at school for the day, we temporarily give the school the right to do as they see fit for the welfare of the child (within limits, of course). It's not like parents don't have a say in this stuff; I don't think community service is mandated by the state or federal government. Parents can help change the way the school works through the PTA and school board elections.

Any parent that disagrees has the option of either sending their child to a private school or homeschooling (an option more and more families are taking now-a-days).

By sending your child to school, you're saying that you as a parent agree with the educational policies of said school.

reply to post by ghbost


Yes. In upper midwest my daughter has "Service Learning Day" coming up.

It could be misconstrued; but she likes it... Last year she helped fill a volley ball pit with sand and they all had a blast and the sand in her hair to prove it.

I don't believe they would cut off her hands (ie Shea Law) if she called in 'sick' that day.

Originally posted by suzque66
Ontario, Canada school have had the students do a manditory 40 hours community service in order to graduate and recieve diploma for years now.

It is a fairly good idea. Not bad, 40 hours to complete within 4 years isn't a lot to ask a kid.

It doesn't matter if it's just 40 hours. The question is do they have the right in the first place to force you to do something just because they say so?

It's just like saying, it's ok, I only have my slaves pick a little cotton everyday so it's no big deal. It's not like they have to pick a lot of cotton right? Either way your forcing labor on someone.

[edit on 27-4-2009 by tinfoilman]

Originally posted by tinfoilman

It doesn't matter if it's just 40 hours. The question is do they have the right in the first place to force you to do something just because they say so?

It's just like saying, it's ok, I only have my slaves pick a little cotton everyday so it's no big deal. It's not like they have to pick a lot of cotton right? Either way your forcing labor on someone.

Ok, there are a few common misconceptions that I guess need to be cleared up:

1. No one's forcing anyone to do anything. Community service is simply a requirement to graduate, in the same way that student's have to take their normal classes. It's like saying that being "forced" to have PE, 3 maths, 4 englishes and 3 sciences is "slavery".

2. Community service is hardly "labor". When we did community service, we were given the option to choose however we wanted to help out to earn our hours, so we got to make a difference in a way that we cared about. Some people volunteered at shelters, some at the humane society, etc. I participated in food drives and fundraisers where I distributed bags, came back a week later to collect, and then helped sort the food to be distributed to the community's less fortunate. If you equate that with picking cotton, then you have some issues with reasoning.


And if you REALLY didn't want your kid to be doing any service at all, you could just sign a sheet of paper saying s/he did the 40 hours and be done with it (I guess if you really hate your community). I can't begin to understand why you wouldn't want your child to learn to give back and help out the less fortunate, but I guess to each his own.

Originally posted by drwizardphd


1. No one's forcing anyone to do anything. Community service is simply a requirement to graduate, in the same way that student's have to take their normal classes. It's like saying that being "forced" to have PE, 3 maths, 4 englishes and 3 sciences is "slavery".

I see, so a requirement isn't forcing someone to do unpaid labor.

I suppose you'll start saying that freedom is slavery.

The issue is that the kids have to do 40 hours within 4 years with a registered charity...

Back in the day, many of us did this for churches or other organization because our parents taught us to be charitable., give something back while learning a skill within the community (and meeting new people).

If this opens doors for our kids to have the above things occur then good for them. If a student learns carpentry by volunteering at a charity by building a home or if a student learns how to use a computer in a work-like setting for a charity taht needs flyers to distribute, again, no harm.

If you can prove your child already does charity, then even better and that charity would write them a letter with the amount of hours the kid put in. Pretty sad that kids have to be forced to do something they should be doing on their own anyways.

Also, to collect welfare and if not employable, those recipients must volunteer also (up to 40/hrs a month), or 3 hours a day/week, whatever.
It gives them contacts and work-skills also.

Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by tinfoilman

It doesn't matter if it's just 40 hours. The question is do they have the right in the first place to force you to do something just because they say so?

It's just like saying, it's ok, I only have my slaves pick a little cotton everyday so it's no big deal. It's not like they have to pick a lot of cotton right? Either way your forcing labor on someone.

Ok, there are a few common misconceptions that I guess need to be cleared up:

1. No one's forcing anyone to do anything. Community service is simply a requirement to graduate, in the same way that student's have to take their normal classes. It's like saying that being "forced" to have PE, 3 maths, 4 englishes and 3 sciences is "slavery".

2. Community service is hardly "labor". When we did community service, we were given the option to choose however we wanted to help out to earn our hours, so we got to make a difference in a way that we cared about. Some people volunteered at shelters, some at the humane society, etc. I participated in food drives and fundraisers where I distributed bags, came back a week later to collect, and then helped sort the food to be distributed to the community's less fortunate. If you equate that with picking cotton, then you have some issues with reasoning.


And if you REALLY didn't want your kid to be doing any service at all, you could just sign a sheet of paper saying s/he did the 40 hours and be done with it (I guess if you really hate your community). I can't begin to understand why you wouldn't want your child to learn to give back and help out the less fortunate, but I guess to each his own.

I'm sorry, my community has never done anything for me without expecting that almighty tax dollar or that I sign that almighty check. When people start doing stuff for me for free, then I'll teach my kids to do something for free. Until then, if you want work from this family, you'll sign over that almighty check to us. If our labor isn't good enough to pay us for it then it must not mean that much to you right? So, what does it matter if we don't do it?

I want my kids to learn one thing and that's nothing is free. Stop being cheap and get that check book out. If not, I'll just stay home if that's ok with you?

As for regular classes being slavery. Well, I've already covered that in a previous post.
[edit on 28-4-2009 by tinfoilman]

[edit on 28-4-2009 by tinfoilman]

Originally posted by killuminati2012
I see nothing wrong with mandatory community service. We should be taught to help our fellow man just as much as we should be taught math. I was unaware that Californians were required to do that for graduation, but I applaud such efforts.

I agree that community service is a good thing, but- If people are forced to do community service it really isn't volunteering, is it? Community service should be optional because then it is real service to your fellow humans. It doesn't mean as much to the person getting helped because they're forced to do it. A real act of kindness from such a thing would be if the person chose to do so on their own free will. Also, forced community service might make it easier for the government to impose even more power on us. Don't get me wrong, it's a wonderful thing to help others, but it's much better when the choice is based on free will.

reply to post by LiquidLight


Do you feed, clothe, and provide the necessities for your children? Then the chores you would have them do around the house are not the same thing as mandatory community service. They work around the house and they receive goods and services for that work.
MANDATORY community service is FORCED labor. You can say it's for their own good and that they're learning to help others (which is undoubtedly a good thing), but that doesn't change what it is. Most, if not all of them, are not there to help, they are there because some asshole is holding their diploma hostage, isn't that extortion? So what are they really learning? That if they have the leverage, they can exploit others to do what they would not do themselves. School is about becoming educated in the arts and sciences, instilling ethics is for the family.


As a side note, with all the emphasis on community service and the give act, i can't help but wonder if this is an attempt to ease the public into a new draft (this is still a conspiracy site damn it). With our troops stretched thin, enlistment low, and recent developments with Iran and North Korea, it wouldn't be far to make that leap.

[edit on 25-6-2009 by bloodWolf762]

I went to a Catholic high school and was made to do community service. It didn't make me appreciate my community any more or to be a better person, it just showed me how to make myself 'look' like a better person. In some areas, the community can't be helped or saved. One of the worser parts was what the principal recommended we do.. pick up trash on the side of the highway, like prisoners.
I would be willing to compromise and state if there was extra credit given, I would be more willing to do it. As well as being an elective course. The problem seen was asking students, in which some had jobs, to take time from their schedule and work for no pay as well as possibly getting somewhere on their own accord. I don't know much about other cities, but helping mine is basically like putting a simple band-aid on a bullet hole of a man who is still being shot at.. Useless.

I am going to reconsider my opinions on my ideals of this new Obama volunteer

www.youtube.com...

please by all means for those who are for required community service, please come over and mow my lawn for me. plus i have need of a new roof so if you could go ahead and do that too it would be great!

while were at it could someone read me a story and cook my dinner?

dont worry ill write a real nice note to show people for you!

why not save community service for those who live off the community?
like those on gov aid, and wellfare?

Originally posted by Simplynoone
This is kinda off subject but maybe not ..

My Sister gets foodstamps (she is layed off and so is her hubby which has a kid) ...this month they sent her a letter telling her she has to do mandatory three day classes to learn how to get a job ..and the only other option they told her was mandatory 63 hours of community service EVERY month that she is on them ............(at least in the state of Florida)

The three day class teaches them everything from how to write resumes, how to interview, and even how to do post interview thank you notes.

I work in one of those offices, not saying this about your sister, but many of those people definetly need the education.


They are also starting a program that teaches you how to "keep" your job. Dos and don'ts. ETiquette, how to keep building your resume to keep you hireable.

There are more important things that come out of the community service.

Kids in this area choose where they want to volunteer. Many have found things that made them decide what they want to do with life and in college. Many network and meet people that offer them jobs out of high school. A few employers even offered the kids to help pay for college if they worked for them afterwards.

It is not just the services itself. It gives kids a hands on experience of the working world and helps them find their path. Or it gives great networking experience.


We have a little railroad here for young kids. It is run by school volunteers. Many have quite enjoyed tinkering with the little train, and one wants to be a train mechanic.

In fact, they have become quite interested in how to make the little train more efficient and a little faster. LOL

[edit on 8-8-2009 by nixie_nox]