I'm surprised as well that so many support this.

I see a lot of "for their own good", and "it's educating them". Why is it the state's job to educate our children in service and morality? It is not the state's job, nor is it Joe's job to decide what Dan's child should be doing.

Originally posted by ghbost
I'm surprised as well that so many support this.

I see a lot of "for their own good", and "it's educating them". Why is it the state's job to educate our children in service and morality? It is not the state's job, nor is it Joe's job to decide what Dan's child should be doing.

Okay, then what is okay for the state to educate your child in? Mathematics? Science? Physical Education? How is this any different? It's teaching them to be a good human being.

We all do realize that this is completely and totally unconstitutional, right?

Amendment 13 - Slavery Abolished. Ratified 12/6/1865. History

1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
We all do realize that this is completely and totally unconstitutional, right?

Amendment 13 - Slavery Abolished. Ratified 12/6/1865. History

1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

omg, it's not slavery, it's education! By your line of thinking, forcing a kid to go to math class is involuntary servitude.

Originally posted by LiquidLight

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
We all do realize that this is completely and totally unconstitutional, right?

Amendment 13 - Slavery Abolished. Ratified 12/6/1865. History

1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

omg, it's not slavery, it's education! By your line of thinking, forcing a kid to go to math class is involuntary servitude.

So forced servitude is education? You are completely wrong on this. No one in this country has the right to FORCE you into servitude. Period. It is in our constitution.

Tell me, what is the education factor of telling kids they HAVE to perform community service?

I'm not saying this is evil. But it is, IN FACT, unconstitutional.

Originally posted by tinfoilman
Unless of course you're telling me I can have some free slaves? I got some community work around my house I wouldn't mind having a couple of high schoolers do for me?

That's what FOREIGN EXCHANGE STUDENTS are for. Now go get some and make sure you have the maid and butler uniforms ready to go.

I graduated with an International Baccalaureate degree from my high-school.

In order to graduate with it, we had to complete 60 hours of community service over the course of the four years we spent in high-school, 20 in Freshman and Sophomore, and 40 in Junior and Senior. It wasn't really a big deal for me, as I was in scouts as a kid, and simply organized with my local scout troop to volunteer with them (food drives and such).

Also, in the state of Florida, to get your Bright Futures scholarship (which is a fantastic way to help pay for college, as I rely heavily on it now), you have to complete a certain amount of community service, I think 40 hours but I'm not sure at the moment.

This was all well before Obama, and his give act. Nobody called it slavery, nobody was up in arms about it being mandatory. We all just did it, because complaining about service to your community is reprehensible. In the end, it felt good to know that I helped some people out.

But now that Obama's president, if a school makes kids give back to their community, its slavery. Not educating them to be better people and help out the less fortunate in their neighborhoods, but slavery.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Originally posted by drwizardphd
I graduated with an International Baccalaureate degree from my high-school.

In order to graduate with it, we had to complete 60 hours of community service over the course of the four years we spent in high-school, 20 in Freshman and Sophomore, and 40 in Junior and Senior. It wasn't really a big deal for me, as I was in scouts as a kid, and simply organized with my local scout troop to volunteer with them (food drives and such).

Also, in the state of Florida, to get your Bright Futures scholarship (which is a fantastic way to help pay for college, as I rely heavily on it now), you have to complete a certain amount of community service, I think 40 hours but I'm not sure at the moment.

This was all well before Obama, and his give act. Nobody called it slavery, nobody was up in arms about it being mandatory. We all just did it, because complaining about service to your community is reprehensible. In the end, it felt good to know that I helped some people out.

But now that Obama's president, if a school makes kids give back to their community, its slavery. Not educating them to be better people and help out the less fortunate in their neighborhoods, but slavery.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Completely different scenario here. You are talking about SPECIAL CURRICULUM in high school, and you are talking about earning scholarships for college, which has no place in this debate.


I hope youa re not saying that I am complaining about helping your community, because as I have said twice now, I think everyone should help out. FORCING THEM TO, is a different story.

I went to a private school, and it was enforced by the school.
There were a few reasons for it.
First, there was the Christian idea of helping your neighbors.
Second, when it comes to looking for a college, they are usually looking for fairly well rounded graduates. Having community service on your transcript gives you a boost.
Thirdly, it's another part of teaching. A lot of people don't like doing stuff for their community unless they learn to like it, which is a lot of what High School is about, learning what you like.
Might as well protest school work and homework.

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic



I hope youa re not saying that I am complaining about helping your community, because as I have said twice now, I think everyone should help out. FORCING THEM TO, is a different story.

Well, I agree with your point about scholarship incentives and my special curriculum. But no one is forcing these kids to graduate high-school.

And I would like to make the point that, while I think scholarship incentives are a better way of getting students to do community service, making everyone do it a few times a year as part of the school's general curriculum hardly amounts to slavery, or indoctrination into the new world order, as some are saying.

Had I not been forced by my IB curriculum to do community service, I never would have done it (in high school I was more concerned with chasing girls and hanging with my friends). Community service is rewarding to both the giver and the receiver, and by adding it to schools' curriculums it we are only benefiting everyone.

Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic



I hope youa re not saying that I am complaining about helping your community, because as I have said twice now, I think everyone should help out. FORCING THEM TO, is a different story.

Well, I agree with your point about scholarship incentives and my special curriculum. But no one is forcing these kids to graduate high-school.

And I would like to make the point that, while I think scholarship incentives are a better way of getting students to do community service, making everyone do it a few times a year as part of the school's general curriculum hardly amounts to slavery, or indoctrination into the new world order, as some are saying.

Had I not been forced by my IB curriculum to do community service, I never would have done it (in high school I was more concerned with chasing girls and hanging with my friends). Community service is rewarding to both the giver and the receiver, and by adding it to schools' curriculums it we are only benefiting everyone.

Again, I am certainly not arguing that working with your community is a bad thing. I dont see how you can make the distinction between forced servitude and forcing a child to work to have the ability to graduate highschool...it is still a way of telling people they HAVE NO CHOICE.

At my secondary school, the sixth form had the option to do 20 or more hours of community serive, in return for a few more 'points' towards their university course. Just about everybody did it. But we wern't forced to, and if we had been, I can bet there would have been a much larger number of people who didn't do it.

Community service does not 'teach' you anything like a maths lesson or a science lesson does. It is little more than free labour for a while. You can say it is 'for their own good' all you like, but that is because you arn't the pne being made to do it. Now some people here have done it before, but these people seem like the people who would have done it if they were given a choice, but if they did not want to, I fully agree that they should not have to.

To the poster who went to a private school requiring community service - This is a private institution, not a government organization. It's different.

I think community service is well and good and should be encouraged, but NOT required, especially from a government institution.

Originally posted by killuminati2012
Tinfoilman, I'm not trying to attack you, but I feel like you have a negative outlook on this. You can view it as forced labor, or view it as a learning experience. Would you consider our public schools slavery? Yeah, we're forced to learn certain subjects, but it's because we think it'll make our youth better people. I think the same idea applies to community service.

[edit on 26-4-2009 by killuminati2012]

Schools are a type of slavery until you're old enough to drop out. Just because it's for your own good doesn't change the fact that your forcing it on someone that has done you no wrong. Should the government be able to force you to exercise for an hour a day? Should a military guy come in with a clipboard everyday and make sure you do your jumping jacks and push ups everyday? It's for your own good right?

Unless you're willing to do some free labor for me you have no leg to stand on to say you support mandatory service of any kind. Why is it ok to perform mandatory service for one person or government but not another?

Now many people say you don't have to do it. You can drop out? So, according to that logic the school could say they have to join the military and go to war or they don't graduate. They're not being forced. They can just drop out right?

Or they could say all the high school kids have to get bar codes tattooed on their forehead. If they don't like it they can just drop out right?

We're talking about their education here that will determine the rest of their lives. They can't just drop out. You haven't really given them any choice because you've left them no bargaining power whatsoever. I don't know how important an education is to you, but to me you might as well say, well you don't have to do it. You can blow your brains out instead!

That's not a real choice. Nobody should ever be forced in a position where they have to make choices like that in the first place such as dropping out of school so they can't be used as free labor. It's morally wrong to put someone in that position in the first place.



[edit on 27-4-2009 by tinfoilman]

Glad when I was in high school they didn't require that sort of thing. Nor did my college. Nor does my job.

Of course on the other side of the coin, I also don't believe that education should be forced either. If you don't want to learn anything, you shouldn't have to.

One should never force another human being to become something more. If you have to be forced into community service you're honestly not helping the community much at all. You'll be uninterested and not in the least bit concerned about helping your fellow man.

If you're not interested in bettering yourself, you shouldn't be forced into that position. Kinda interferes with that whole life, liberty and pursuit of happiness thing.