For all you people out there who was there and saw the "second plane" hit the towers. Are you 100% positive that what you saw was indeed a plane? Or are you being influenced by the media? Lets say you did see something fly into it. It must have been a blur since the thing flew into it so quickly. How are you so sure that that thing was indeed a plane? Ok you go home still confused what had happened and turn on the tv or radio for information. What do you hear and see? BREAKING NEWS PLANE CRASHES INTO TWIN TOWERS. Oh gee well since the media said it was a plane then it must have been a plane that I saw.

I think it is obvious that the "no plane" theory was devised to discredit anyone seeking the truth on what happened that day. Of course there are people who believe anything and will mold and distort the truth until it fits, in their mind, disregarding any evidence that screams at them that they are wrong. Because of tripe like this we are all tarred with the same brush and dismissed as crazy and stupid. It annoys the heck out of me and I think this kind of rubbish should be ignored until this theory withers and dies.

Thanks for the work on this OP.

Your diligence in dissecting this dissemination of dis-info is
due praise .

I believe most NPT'ers are sincere and some are passionate
but some of the POV's expressed only serve to discredit
plausible conspiracy theories.

My take on 9-11 after a substantial review of evidence;

Explosive charges placed in WTC 1, 2, 7, prior to 9/11

Two planes (passenger-sized) strike buildings

Buildings caused to collapse due to engineered implosions

Third plane strikes ground-official story is plausible, evidence
is inconclusive to discredit official story

Fourth object strikes Pentagon-evidence is highly suspect
in relation to official story

Wave of patriotism is utilized by the PTB to;
war-for-profit,
quickly and easily pass wanted legislation,
further other parts of an unknown and
dynamic agenda.










[edit on 27-4-2009 by rival]

[edit on 27-4-2009 by rival]

[edit on 27-4-2009 by rival]

I was on the streets and watched it all happen. Of course I'm sure I wasn't "influenced" by the media, I wasn't exactly watching TV at the time.

If you really think about it, why would the alleged plotters fake using planes to destroy the buildings. They are already demolishing huge buildings and killings thousands of people. Why stop at sparing a couple planes and a few hundred lives? Wouldn't it be far more practical and easier, since they are already committed to murdering thousands of innocent lives, to just use real planes?

The real conspiracy lies in who orchestrated the attacks.

Consider some of the evidence offered - no plane parts for instance. Out of the two towers, they only recovered a few beams of any real size. 90% of those buildings were turned into dust. As far as the passenger names and families, I'm pretty sure they did release those and interview the surviving members. They might be offended to hear you questioning their existence. As to the hijackers themselves, who knows whats going on there - fake names, pseudonyms, aliases, mistaken identities, covering up for the Saudis, etc. etc. etc. That fits more with the "whodunit" conspiracies than it does with a "no plane theory". As to the idea it was a projected hologram? C'mon, really? Rejoin reality man, if those were holograms then the Matrix is real. Gimme my blue pill already.

By the way that is not the Empire State building in the background of that shot. Seriously, its no where near the WTCs

The no plane theory and others like it were manufactured by certain parties to destroy the truth movement from the inside out.

Who would take any truther seriously when some in their midst think the planes hundreds of people saw were hi-tech holograms?

Many other aspects of the 9/11 conspiracy hold weight and need to be looked at by far more people, but when you bring in some far out theories as the no plane theory it discredits the whole movement and effectively kills it's chances of making waves.

The same technique has worked wonders with the UFO community. For every solid military or pilot witness there is a basement crackpot to balance it out, and sadly the general public only see the crackpots.

It is the same with the 9/11 truth movement. Every time it is brought up in the MSM (which isn't often), jokes are thrown about the no planers and all truthers are tarred with the same brush as fringe lunatics and mentally unstable dangers to society.

It is good to see some of the community speaking out against this clear and deliberate effort to sabotage the movement.

Originally posted by Sherlock2009

Lets be tuthfull, you were told that it was "United Airlines Flight 175", by the media.

That is correct ...

I like everyone else on site saw a passenger plane hit the building, none of us were aware of the Flight No. at the time.

But I fail to see what the flight no. has to do with the No Plane Theory.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by Sherlock2009

Lets be tuthfull, you were told that it was "United Airlines Flight 175", by the media.

That is correct ...

I like everyone else on site saw a passenger plane hit the building, none of us were aware of the Flight No. at the time.

But I fail to see what the flight no. has to do with the No Plane Theory.

You stated it was ""United Airlines Flight 175", and that you saw it!!!

And, now you say, "you dont know what plane it was and like everyone else on site saw a passenger plane hit the building."

Im not saying it wasnt a plane, im just pointing out the fact that you didnt know what plane it was even with your own eyes untill the media told you.!

EDIT: I wiped my own post due to dicnical teficulties. Look below.

[edit on 27-4-2009 by Grimstad]

I have considered starting a website dedicated to this, but it would only prove a point, I don't know that it would make "the" difference.

Start a site that allows people to upload files themselves. These files would be testimony, handwritten in red or blue ink, then color scanned in. Of course these would be the "testimonies" of people who saw things on Sept 11. These would be done under oath, in front of a Notary. This would be "evidence" now, and could not be included as evidence unless it were done this way. The Oath would be sworn under "Penalty of Purjury", and that person would have to have witness willing to testify to same that they agree that person was where they claimed to be that day.

Everyone remembers where they were on 911, kinda like JFK for the older folks that remember that one. I have a friend who was with me on 911, and they could testify as to where I was, it would not be that difficult.

That would eliminate all the B.S. ers out there, at least. Then we could deal with the real people who really saw things.

Barely anyone could have seen the second airplane as it crashed into the building. The reason why is because of this :

It is presumed that a FIRST airplane crashed into the building and everyone looked up and saw the second one. There was no first one to look up and see, so how could they have been on alert for the second one?

Now, provided people actually saw something at all, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE IT WAS A PLANE!!!

It could have been a hologram, and you cannot discount that completely. Holograms can be used now and have been for some time. The entire Opening Ceremony for the Chinese Olympics was done with CGI, and I watched it and thought it was completely real until I learned later it was done that way. The technology the government has is light years beyond what the public knows about, so if they have these kind now, already, what did they have before 911?

Now, say it was not a Hologram, which John Lear believes it was, BTW....
It could have been a missile. You cannot rule that out completely.
If you rule either of these possibilities out, without evidence, you are a mad person, not a conspiracy or truth researcher.

The Difference between a raving lunatic who knows about conspiracies, and a conspiracy theorist who does his homework, is that the conspiracy theorist has a grounded foundation in which to stake his claim. The Raving lunatic finds theories to match their perception of the world, and they study them, and learn the, so they know exactly how that conspiracy works upon them, and the world. The conspiracy theorist who does their homework, steps outside what they might desire to believe, and takes all the evidence into consideration, building upon the most solid foundation that exists.

I have been studying conspiracies for 21 years now, actively, and I've read hundreds of book, and watched hundreds of videos. I have been to over a hundred meetings, and I know dozens of people personally.

If people want to learn the truth, they need to stop finding truth that fits into their belief systems, and instead, find info that is OPPOSED to your belief system, and SINCERELY try to disprove it to yourself, not anyone else.

Then take that info, feel it out, and think about it. Meditate on it. Sleep on it. Wait a few days, even weeks, or maybe months to ponder it. Then, let your intuition guide you and ask yourself, "how do I feel about this information?",
NOT..."what do I think about it?", because you have spent the last month or so THINKING, about it, now it's time to see how you FEEL about it.

Trust your intuition, not the mind, or the people around you.

Then you will be on your way to true wisdom.

The Truthseeker is like the "Hermit". He is also the "Magician", or the alchemist. Truth is only understood, once distilled, and only a good alchemist can distill info and understand truth.





[edit on 27-4-2009 by infoliberator]

And this is exactly the logic(?) used in every one of these theories. Not just the NPT but ALL OF THEM. Unless you were actually on FLT 175 (or whatever flt) you don't actually know a plane crashed into a building. But if you were on the plane you don't even know that it was a building that was hit. It was actually shot down and someone blew up the buildings from the inside. But we don't even know for sure that a building was blown up. It was those "mystery witnesses" that told us the buildings were blown up. Seriously, those alleged disinfo agents got the sweetest job in the world. Sit and surf porn sites all day while a paranoid minority does their job for them.
Sorry for the double post. When I replied the first time, everything I wrote disappeared. Strange, huh. Now THERE is a mystery.

I don't know any more than anyone else what happened, really, on 9/11 but I'll interject my opinion here nonetheless.

I have seen photographs as old as a hundred years old that were retouched. Documentary on Edward Curtis shows this and how he caught flak for that, among other things he photographed. I've seen videos that purport to have "evidence" the Zapruder film was altered, through supposed editing techniques around at the time. I know not if this is true or not but I cannot disprove it. If it is so, then why, forty years after the Zapruder film was supposedly altered, why is it not possible then for the footage on 9/11 to be fudged?

I don't know one way or the other whether it is or not but I find it highly suspect, the footage I have seen. I question the entire OS by now, so why not the video also? I know my logic here is a little unsteady, but who is to say, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it is completely impossible for the footage to have been tampered with? Can anyone prove to me that it could NOT have been done? If you can prove to me that it can't be fudged, that images cannot be manipulated to suit someones needs, then I will gladly accept that there were planes there. Until then, I file it in the unproven category, just another avenue of exploration.

Just my take on it. Worth, maybe, $.02.

How do you explain the enxtended black gash ON BURNED OUT WINDOWS, when all live news footage shows NO BURNED WINDOWS and PERFECTLY INTACT FLOORS.

Debunked. Gg.

Planes, or no planes.. I would think people would be trying to figure out who actually perpetrated the attack and why rather than figure out if it was commercial planes, military planes, holograms, or whatever else. If it was planes or holograms it makes no difference, we were attacked, a lot of people died, and we need to figure out who did it and why.