For the Skeptics who say "where's your evidence?"

The op makes a great point.

Many so called skeptics and debunkers don't use reason.

We always weigh the evidence as to what's most likely or what's less likely. We do it in science, courts, police investigations and more.

The skeptics acts as if all things are equal and there not.

The skeptic has zero evidence. They only have opinion.

On the other hand, there's plenty of evidence to support the ET hypothesis. There's no counter evidence to the ET hypothesis. There's opinions from skeptics and debunkers but barely any counter evidence. This is why they look for things like extraordinary evidence or absolute proof because they can't counter the evidence because they have no evidence outside of their opinion.

Let's go through some of the evidence.

Abduction cases - skeptics have no counter evidence against many abduction cases. They can only offer an opinion. They say the person "must be" this or that. The eyewitness tells you what they experienced and what they saw. The only thing you can say is you don't believe the person. That's not evidence of anything.

Trace evidence - Trace evidence is good because this evidence comes after a sighting. Again, you have eyewitness testimony and the skeptic has opinion.

Over the past 38 years, specialized research into Close Encounters of the Second Kind has resulted in a wealth of reports in every major country of the world. CPTR files contain 3,189 trace/landing cases from 91 countries. I believe physical traces present us with the most direct approach to resolving the mystery of UFOs.

ufophysical.com...

Mass sightings - Again, you have multiple witness who see craft and sometimes humanoid beings the skeptic has opinion.

Pictures & Video - Pictures and video of UFO's as well as extraterrestrials which is circumstantial as well as cave paintings, paintings and ancient manuscripts.

The skeptic will yell fake, but how can you say something is fake when you don't know what a real one looks like? Some things are obvious CGI or you can see the strings but some of them are not. So, how can a skeptic calls these things fake? What are they basing it on?

It's because many skeptics and so called debunkers are not seeking the truth because they start with a priori that these things can't or don't exist.

You have science with liquid water on Mars, signs of microbial life, the multiverse, extra-dimensions, brane worlds and more. We don't know what constitutes 96% of the universe.

The skeptic and debunker has set up a matrix of ignorance. I say this because it's a position that doesn't make sense.

How could you find evidence, if you exclude the most logical explanation for these things? This is why they will be unidentified and unknown even though we have eyewitnesses that describe what they saw.

The so called skeptic and debunker is essentially saying that if the evidence doesn't fit their worldview then it's labeled unknown or unidentified ad infinitum.

It's only unidentified or unknown if you exclude extraterrestrials as an explanation for these things.

For years, the skeptic and debunker has said we will find another explanation for these things. What's really unidentified and unknown is this non-existent explanation. They never do in most cases.

Think about how closed minded that is. They insist that there's another explanation for these things based on their belief and opinion.

Again this is eyewitness testimony vs. the skeptics opinion.

I think some of the evidence is so strong, it need to be labled as evidence of extraterrestrial visitation until a skeptic or debunker can offer counter evidence beyond their opinions.

If you start with the priori that these things can't or don't exist then these things will remain unidentified forever because you exclude the most logical explanation.

[edit on 29-4-2009 by platosallegory]

reply to post by platosallegory


"Many so called skeptics and debunkers don't use reason.

We always weigh the evidence as to what's most likely or what's less likely. We do it in science, courts, police investigations and more.

The skeptics acts as if all things are equal and there not.

The skeptic has zero evidence. They only have opinion. "

If you replace "skeptics and debunkers" with "true believers" you have that right.

Is it reasonable to think any blob of light in the sky is an alien space craft?

What evidence do you weigh when assuming that everybody that reports a alien space craft is telling the truth.

Why do you act as if every report of a UFO is equally valid?

Why don't you have evidence of your claims? Why do you value your opinion over reason?

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Again,

There's plenty of evidence to weigh and look into. The skeptic and debunker just has opinion.

It's evidence vs. opinion.

This is why some have to live under the delusion that people are just seeing white blobs of light or their just imagining these things.

This is because they don't have any evidence, ZERO.

You also have the so called skeptic and debunker saying that we will find an answer one day, and they use this as evidence. The hope of an explanation that fits your belief system is not evidence of anything. It's just wishful thinking.

There's plenty evidence to weigh to build a hypothesis. There's barely if any evidence offered by skeptics and debunkers to counter these things just opinion and belief.

Here's some of the best documented cases:
churchofcriticalthinking.org...

Here's some abduction cases:

1961 Betty and Barney Hill Abduction
1967 The Betty Andreasson Abduction
1967 Abduction of Herbert Schirmer
1968 The Buff Ledge Camp Abduction
1969 The Antonio da Silva Abduction
1973 The Doraty Abduction, Houston, Texas
1973 Pascagoula, Mississippi Abduction (Parker, Hickson)
1974 Hunter Abducted in Wyoming
1975 The Abduction of Sergeant Charles L. Moody
1975 The Travis Walton Abduction
1976 The Stanford, Kentucky Abductions
1976 The Allagash Abductions
1978 The Cullen Abduction
1978 The Dechmont Woods Abduction
1978 The Abduction of Jan Wolski
1980's Lost Time/Abduction in New York
1980 The Alan Godfrey Abduction
1983 The Copely Woods Encounter
1983 The Abduction of Alfred Burtoo
1985 Abduction of Wladyslaw S.
1985 Abduction of Whitley Strieber
1987 Abduction on North Canol Road, Canada
1987 Hudson Valley Abduction
1987 The Christa Tilton Story
1987 The Ilkley Moor Alien
1987 The Jason Andews Abduction
1988 Abduction of Bonnie Jean Hamilton
1988 DNA Sample From Khoury Abduction
1989 Linda Cortile-Napolitano Abduction
1990 Westchester, N. Y. Abduction
1992 The A-70 Abduction
1994 Abduction in Killeen, Texas
1997 Abduction in Wales
1997 Abduction in Australia, (Rylance-Heller)
1999 Carlyle Lake Abduction
2001 Abduction in Michigan
2003-Abduction in Florida
2004 Francis Family Abduction
2005 Man Abducted in Florida
2005 Clayton & Donna Lee Abduction

www.ufocasebook.com...

You have trace evidence cases:
ufophysical.com...

UFO's & Nukes:
www.nicap.org...

I will stop right there. I was going to go on but it's pointless. You and others have a belief and in order to support this belief you have convinced yourself that there's no evidence to weigh.

I can go on with evidence for 40 or 50 pages but it's out there and easy to find. This is not about evidence, it's about a belief system. Most so called skeptics and debunkers start with a belief and then they try to support that belief even though they don't have any evidence.

Their whole belief hinges on, one day we will find an explanation.

That's like a judge saying, ignore the evidence because one day we will find evidence that shows he's innocent. So just let him go.

No, we weigh the evidence within reason.

Pick the best piece of evidence you have and then show me specifically how it ties in with or proves that it has anything at all to do with extraterrestrial intelligences. I say you don't have even one. Show me the best, and walk me through step by step from the evidence (which I'll even go so far as to assume is authentic) to the aliens.

It can't be done. Can't. I wish that wasn't the case, but it's true. There will always be a gap in the evidential process that you're going to have to jump to get from the evidence to ETs.

reply to post by platosallegory


"It's evidence vs. opinion. "

If you had evidence you would have trotted it out by now. None seen, just "wow, that's an alien space ship, I know it is because I don't know what it is."

reply to post by platosallegory



So with all these adduction cases which one is the smoking gun that ties aliens directly to them? Even something as an advance micro device 1000s or millions of year ahead of anything we can accomplish d found embedded in one of these cases would show that there is at least something going on that we cannot explain.

But we always find nothing or if there is some hint then the item is always lost, also with 1000s of books written none of them really get out of the realm of just theory even though the information is presented as factual.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by kinda kurious ... ain't a Cynic just a Junior-Skeptic?

I would say that skepticism is intellectual caution, and cynicism is based upon an innate negativity. But if you need to keep that rural flair...just think "Don't step in that, Wilbur..."

And incidentally, I live in farm country, and I don't know anybody that sounds like a hick.

Johnny Canuck, No disrespect meant.

I have always admired your posts and wisdom and am a big fan. I generally star your posts. I am a cracker from Florida and do sometimes actually talk like that when I get around other family. People often mock me when I say I am "fixing" to do something or I made something "tump over."

Your Avatar just put me in that "mode."

No offense meant. I'd run away before sparring with you.

Without Wax...KK

Originally posted by kinda kurious

Johnny Canuck, No disrespect meant.
I am a cracker from Florida and do sometimes actually talk like that when I get around other family. People often mock me when I say I am "fixing" to do something or I made something "tump over."

No offense taken...but I figgered you was messin' wit me.
And I used to drive my ex nuts talking about "Sittin' on the ruf, down by the crick, eatin' punkin' samijes".

When are people going to realize that if WE are HERE and living on a planet that sustains life why in the world do they think there is no other intelligent life out there in the Universe??? Come on Peeps! We are living proof... we are sending out probes into the Universe... if we can do it.... so can other life forms!! Are you that ignorant to think we are the ONLY species in this Universe of ours??? The Universe is soooooo huge!! Or does the concept of other alien life forms boggle the mind?? We have come so far with space flight... LOL and did you ever think that we are aliens to them as well??? I am sorry but I do believe in other Life Forms. I can not believe we are all alone in this vast Universe.

Originally posted by Stardust13
When are people going to realize that if WE are HERE and living on a planet that sustains life why in the world do they think there is no other intelligent life out there in the Universe??? Come on Peeps! We are living proof... we are sending out probes into the Universe... if we can do it.... so can other life forms!! Are you that ignorant to think we are the ONLY species in this Universe of ours??? The Universe is soooooo huge!! Or does the concept of other alien life forms boggle the mind?? We have come so far with space flight... LOL and did you ever think that we are aliens to them as well??? I am sorry but I do believe in other Life Forms. I can not believe we are all alone in this vast Universe.

It's a leap of galactic proportions to go from "there is other life in the Milky Way" to "and they have visited Earth." That's the objection I have, not that they might exist, but that they have visited Earth.

Originally posted by platosallegory
The op makes a great point.
Many so called skeptics and debunkers don't use reason.

This statement actually made me laugh

We always weigh the evidence as to what's most likely or what's less likely. We do it in science, courts, police investigations and more.
The skeptics acts as if all things are equal and there not.

Actually it is what you consider as evidence is what separates you from a so called skeptic.

The skeptic has zero evidence. They only have opinion.

Kind of a fallacy statement here...how does someone show evidence of something that doesn't exist? Also the skeptic is not the one with the burden of proof.

As example...you say there are aliens and I say ok prove it, and you show me strange lights in the sky and say see! I then look at you and say well you have proof of strange lights in the sky, but not aliens.

On the other hand, there's plenty of evidence to support the ET hypothesis. There's no counter evidence to the ET hypothesis. There's opinions from skeptics and debunkers but barely any counter evidence.

First there is a lot of information on the subject, but the empirical data of proof positive is still not there. Can you not see that?

Second how do you show counter evidence to nothing????

People like you find it easy to see/read some information and then bridge the gap to say something is factual. Well my friend that gap is huge and you see it as a small leap.

Abduction cases - skeptics have no counter evidence against many abduction cases. They can only offer an opinion. They say the person "must be" this or that. The eyewitness tells you what they experienced and what they saw. The only thing you can say is you don't believe the person. That's not evidence of anything.

So what do you have if you have 100 years of eye witness reports with nothing ever backing those reports up with real evidence too?

Over the past 38 years, specialized research into Close Encounters of the Second Kind has resulted in a wealth of reports in every major country of the world. CPTR files contain 3,189 trace/landing cases from 91 countries. I believe physical traces present us with the most direct approach to resolving the mystery of UFOs.

And with all these reports and experiences that one missing link has never come to light...doesn't that bother you in the least?

The physical evidence is always either not there, missing, stolen etc....

It's because many skeptics and so called debunkers are not seeking the truth because they start with a priori that these things can't or don't exist.

Well they do seek the truth no matter what direction it takes them, and so farit has been in many directions, except for proof positive of ET.

I think some of the evidence is so strong, it need to be labled as evidence of extraterrestrial visitation until a skeptic or debunker can offer counter evidence beyond their opinions.

Eyewitness reports, pictures/videos, markings etc is all there is, and I guess for you that is enough to say ET is real and here among us.

I would love for positive proof of aliens. It would be the greatest discovery in the history of the human race, but I can just as easily say those aliens are actually angel and be as correct are you are with the lack of critical empirical data needed to say it is factual.

Originally posted by Stardust13
When are people going to realize that if WE are HERE and living on a planet that sustains life why in the world do they think there is no other intelligent life out there in the Universe???

You see here is the problem. Is there life throughout the universe? Yes, and Earth is proof…

Is there space fairing intelligent life throughout the universe and that is something we cannot say as of yet for we have no proof of it. Humans are not proof for we haven’t even determined if intelligence is a good or bad evolutionary trait, nor have we physically traveled past our moon.

Also to have one intelligent life form in the 6 billion year history of earth, with an extreme fragility that a planet needs to have many right conditions doesn’t provide a good chance in the 12 billion years of our universe that it is over flowing with intelligent life. Finally add in the incomprehensible distances we might as well be alone.

[edit on 3-5-2009 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by Xtrozero


"You see here is the problem. Is there life throughout the universe? Yes, and Earth is proof… "

One datum point does not constitute proof. The sample is one step about no data points at all.

Originally posted by Stardust13
When are people going to realize that if WE are HERE and living on a planet that sustains life why in the world do they think there is no other intelligent life out there in the Universe??? Come on Peeps! We are living proof...

The only thing we are living proof of is US!

To presume that if we exist, others must exist is ignorant.

Maybe the ONLY thing that makes us special is our uniqueness.


[edit on 3/5/2009 by nerbot]

Originally posted by Gawdzilla

It's a leap of galactic proportions to go from "there is other life in the Milky Way" to "and they have visited Earth." That's the objection I have, not that they might exist, but that they have visited Earth.

Have you ever read "Chariots of the Gods" by Erich von Däniken? Its a good read and makes you think.

Originally posted by Stardust13Have you ever read "Chariots of the Gods" by Erich von Däniken? Its a good read and makes you think.

von D., the crook? Yeah, I read "Chariot" when it came out in paperback. That's how long I've been looking into this topic, btw.

The only thing we are living proof of is US!

To presume that if we exist, others must exist is ignorant.

Maybe the ONLY thing that makes us special is our uniqueness.


[edit on 3/5/2009 by nerbot]

Uniqueness?? What is our uniqueness? War? Ignorance? Close mindedness? Greed? Take your pick. Look at World, look at the shape its in. Is this truly what we want in our life? Where are we heading? Global destruction? Maybe the ET's are watching us to see how far we can go: Humanity on the basis of self destruction. Well, I would like to get off this planet at the rate its going.
And we could use a little bit of help from the unexpected.

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
von D., the crook? Yeah, I read "Chariot" when it came out in paperback. That's how long I've been looking into this topic, btw.

I've been looking into it as long as you have been. Its fascinating.

Originally posted by Stardust13I've been looking into it as long as you have been. Its fascinating.

And in all those years, have you found anything that you find convincing? I haven't.

Originally posted by Stardust13
Uniqueness?? What is our uniqueness? War? Ignorance? Close mindedness? Greed? Take your pick.

You forgot many things, maybe what makes us unique is the way we can have the best and the worst as a species, from people that never lie to people that cannot live without telling a lie, from people that give all they have (including their time, their health and sometimes their life) to help other people to people that do not bother to take other people's life to please their own selfish desires.

We may not be unique, but we have variety.

Look at World, look at the shape its in.

It's still round.

Maybe the ET's are watching us to see how far we can go: Humanity on the basis of self destruction. Well, I would like to get off this planet at the rate its going.
And we could use a little bit of help from the unexpected.

Sure, that way we may wait for the ETs to help us while we keep on doing nothing, another characteristic of humans is laziness.

I wonder if that is why so many people wait the ETs...