Iraq, the U.N. and oil-for-food

Oh wait, the source* (be it a site or a 'source' who makes the claim) issue again heelstone?
How many threads floating around here using sources* that are just as ambiguous or as dubious as the one I gave and you just cited? I haven't seen you on them threads or topics saying the same thing?

Not only is that statement extremely vague so that it could mean anything, the source has got to be questioned.

As questionable as it may be to you, to others, the article I linked has a fair amount of damnation to it. Wouldn't that be called "reading between the lines"?


seekerof

[Edited on 25-4-2004 by Seekerof]

I've used Hans Blix's words to back my claims, but so far, everything he's stated has been backed up by reality. You must agree that a Chalabi associate would certainly be hard pressed to be believed after all pre-war intelligence has been shown to be completely untrue.

[Edited on 25-4-2004 by heelstone]

Here's the real question heelstone, is "Chalabi's associate" the only dubious person saying that the UN scammed $1.1 Billion from the program?



seekerof

Yes, but so far he's the only one being quoted as making some vague link between the scandal and the war in Iraq. Which is why I believe this particular subject needs to go into another area of discussion on this board.

So predictable... Hey ignore the issue and bring a wholly different subject to get the discussion on something other than where it belongs.

Money and oil was diverted and given for bribes, as per my already mentioned thread on this heelstone.
Maybe this will shed some light on this and the connection? Got many more if needed.
Food-for-oil claims shake UN

Maybe these:
Oil, Food and a Whole Lot of Questions
Oil for Corruption



seekerof

Here's another:
William Safire: Follow the money

Why do you suppose France and Russia � nations that for years urged the lifting of sanctions on oil production of Saddam's Iraq � are now preventing an end to those U.N. sanctions on free Iraq?

Answer: the Chirac-Putin bedfellowship wants to maintain control of the U.N.'s oil-for-food program, under which Iraq was permitted to sell oil and ostensibly use the proceeds to buy food and medicine for its people. (In reality, Saddam skimmed a huge bundle and socked it away in Swiss, French and Asian banks.)

This extortion is greeted with hosannas by the thousand or more U.N. employees and contractors involved in the present oil-for-food setup, many beholden to France for their jobs. And so long as the U.N. bureaucracy handles the accounting, it is as if Arthur Andersen were back in business � no questions are asked about who profits from the sanctions management.

My Kurdish friends, for example, who are entitled by U.N. resolution to 13 percent of the oil-for-food revenues, believe their four million people are owed billions in food and hospital supplies. I wonder: in what French banks is the money collected from past oil sales deposited? Is a competitive rate of interest being paid? Is that interest being siphoned off in "overhead" to pay other U.N. bills?

seekerof

[Edited on 25-4-2004 by Seekerof]

So how then if the UN was bribed was resolution 1441 allowed to be passed by those same bribed nations? That was the de-facto reason for the invasion and yet these same bribed nations agreed to it. I already talked about that. Which is why I feel the reasoning behind using this scandal for more pro-war justification is very weak and not a good topic for this area of discussion.

[Edited on 25-4-2004 by heelstone]

It is not justification for the war...

It does show the duplicity and corruption of the UN. It also lends some credence to the claims that some UN members had ulterior reasons for voting to give Iraq an ultimatum, then not voting to do anything about it.
It also strengthens some opinions held by the "Right," who believe that the UN is a jobs program for diplomats and has little to do with solving the world's problems.

As I said before, if Haliburton was somehow involved we would here non-stop, red-faced screaming about corruption and it's ties to the Bush administration.


Variable

Actually I think we're hovering around trying to make the point that the UN, in opposing the war wasn't doing the best thing for the world, but the best thing for Saddam Hussain and their own pockets.

[edit added] The contention is, that if they had been doing the best thing for the world, they would have supported us and would now be sharing some of the dirty work. It points out that we (and the UK!) are alone there not because it wasn't the right thing to do, but because it would unprofitable for the ones who opposed it. [end edit]

Seekerof, you are my ATS hero.

[Edited on 25-4-2004 by Ambient Sound]

Well put Ambient Sound,
Not only were they skirting their own sanctions, and making a pile of $$$, but now were the ones giving blood and our $$ to clean things up...for "whatever" reason the war is going on (for you nuts saying illegal)

Youd think now that weve seen that theyve been playing us behind the scenes, caught with a hand in the cookie jar, you'd think theyd try and help, instead of just taking the $$ and running.

Some ally france turned out to be. The Russians i can see doing this as they need hard currency, and well screwing the USA in a quiet way helps ease the sting of losing the cold war, but those darn french have about worn out our "alliance".

Its a war in part over oil alright, but who was profiteering for how long before we stepped in indicates the USA may not have its hands as black with crude as we were being blamed for.

France hasn't been much of an ally with us for quite awhile, it's not just the recent oil-for-food thing. Some thing France would like to see the US on its knees.
And, didn't France NOT allow us to fly over their airspace when we invaded Afghanistan?

" THE Iraq crisis has undoubtedly opened a rift between the United States and France that will be hard to forget, let alone bridge. But does it mark the start of a new phase in Franco-American discord? To measure the significance of recent events we need to see them in the context of the disagreements that have marred relations between the countries since the late 1950s."
mondediplo.com...

"The city where U.S. officials sit and gripe about France was designed by a Frenchman. One of the most compelling explanations of the lively and sometimes downright ornery American spirit was written by a French philosopher.

France may have sat out the Iraq war, earning grief from the Bush administration. But it stood with America in the War of Independence, thanks to treaties 225 years old today."
www.thedesertsun.com...

UN scandal won't go away

IN the months leading up to the invasion of Iraq, and in the year since, a fashionable argument about toppling Saddam Hussein's regime went something like this: no effort to end the suffering of the Iraqi people would be "legitimised" unless it was led by the UN because, while the UN's motives were humanitarian, those of the US and its allies were blackened by material self-interest. There is now growing evidence that the opposite was the case. Iraqi oil production is at pre-war levels, and generating $20 billion a year in profits that flow direct to the Iraqi people � not the coffers of the coalition of the willing. But in a scandal that has now snaked its way right to the office of UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, it appears that it was at the UN, and among Security Council members who opposed the invasion, that Iraq was "all about oil".

Isn't there an old saying that "socialism means never having to say your sorry?"




seekerof

I find it odd that anybody writing an editorial can claim that those countries were against the invasion yet they also voted for the resolution which started the invasion. Of course it makes for a stronger opinion if you avoid such facts.

heelstone, you use "can claim" and "avoid facts" and yet you have steadily denied the evidences provided throughout this thread?

Those claims are "facts"....and if you care to debunk those facts, start right here with these threads, k?
Cause they all the "facts" I need to show that you are indeed the one avoiding facts!
Anti-war nations 'took bribes' before war began.
The French War For Oil, Along With Others.



seekerof

[Edited on 27-4-2004 by Seekerof]

Uhhh, this is going to be revealing. I hope they post what is said in this hearing:
Michael Soussan, a former program coordinator for the $100 billion fund, to testify before HIRC

Frenchman Michael Soussan, a former program coordinator for the $100 billion fund, is expected to be the star witness of a House International Relations Committee hearing looking into Saddam's gigantic $10.1 billion rip-off.

Committee sources said Soussan, now a New York-area writer, is expected to give the first, under oath, public account from an insider about how top U.N. officials were aware of Saddam's oil smuggling and kickback schemes but chose to let him get away with it.

seekerof

Heelstone,
of course they could have voted for another resolution that had NO stated consequences other that a vague threat....they didnt think anyone was going to actually DO something to jeapordize their secret oil for food rippoff scam.

This lie was a win/win.....they got to LOOK like they were against saddam and supporting this, but in reality required NOTHING was done to upset their secret plans.

We shall soon see what the reactions are to this scam as it gets more light.

Originally posted by CazMedia
Some ally france turned out to be. The Russians i can see doing this as they need hard currency, and well screwing the USA in a quiet way helps ease the sting of losing the cold war, but those darn french have about worn out our "alliance".

_____
"Opinion polls show almost 80% of people in France are against a US-led war against Iraq.
Many of those see American military and economic aims in Iraq as one and the same thing.
America's critics claim that America's policy on Iraq is driven by its appetite for oil.
But could similar claims be made about France? "
news.bbc.co.uk...

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

Released today,
Claim that Baghdad has list of oil-for-food cash bribes

UNITED NATIONS - An Iraqi official said today there was a list of cash bribes made by Saddam Hussein's government to journalists, politicians and groups in connection with the US$67 billion ($108.92 billion) UN-run oil-for-food programme.

Jalal Talabani, a Kurdish member of the Iraqi Governing Council, said Iraqi officials combing Saddam's files had not decided whether to release the list as part of a burgeoning scandal over the defunct programme.

"We have a list of cash paid to journalists, personalities, groups and parties," Talabani told a news conference after conferring with UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan over an Iraqi interim government.

A separate, previously released list contains the names of more than 250 individuals, business, politicians and other groups alleged to have received vouchers for oil they could sell.

seekerof

On May 2, 2004, Tim Russert interviewed Kofi Annan on Meet the Press. Of course, Mr. Annan denied he and his son did anything improper. The link is to the transcript. I had difficulty finding a good quote to provide. Mr. Annan's interview appears first.

www.msnbc.msn.com...


[Edited on 4-5-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]