Did a Comet Cause the Great Flood?

Let's return for a second to the original subject.

I don't think anyone except ardent Judaeo-Christian fundamentalists actually takes the Great Flood too seriously as history.

For certain one of the many cultures that contributed to the myth cycle that formed the early books of the Old Testament, experienced a devastating deluge.

Absolutely no way of knowing how early the event that formed the story actually happened, or exactly where. Possibly as early as 7-8000 BC has been speculated.

One of the biggest cul-de-sacs of biblical scholarship have been vain attempts to reconcile the religious myths with recorded history.

Any region with lowlands near bodies of substantial bodies of water, over thousands of years will inevitably experience at least one major flood - probably a number.

So along with the giant ark made of gopher wood, and the pairs of every animal on Earth, let's put this charming story in some realistic perspective.


Mike

Originally posted by Naturally Smooth
I read this article a few months ago, and thought it was really interesting. Then I realized it might not be well known, so decided I'd post it here. Basically, this guy Bruce Masse believes that a comet crashed into the Indian Ocean about 5,000 years ago, causing what is now known as the Flood Myths.

Sadly for him, the first Flood myths date to earlier than that.

Masse’s biggest idea is that some 5,000 years ago, a 3-mile-wide ball of rock and ice swung around the sun and smashed into the ocean off the coast of Madagascar. The ensuing cataclysm sent a series of 600-foot-high tsunamis crashing against the world’s coastlines and injected plumes of superheated water vapor and aerosol particulates into the atmosphere. Within hours, the infusion of heat and moisture blasted its way into jet streams and spawned superhurricanes that pummeled the other side of the planet. For about a week, material ejected into the atmosphere plunged the world into darkness. All told, up to 80 percent of the world’s population may have perished, making it the single most lethal event in history.

Ugh. His physics is really off.

Secondly, we had at least four civilizations with writing and records then, including Sumeria, Egypt, China, and India. They would have recorded such events.

We don't find mass leveling of cities from 3,000 BC, either or a single season of very large and violent hurricanes.

Almost every culture has a legend about a great flood,

That's an urban legend, actually. The only ones with flood legends are places where there are floods. Furthermore, if you look closely at some of them (the Aboriginal "legends") you'll see that they arose only after the Christian missionaries came in and told them the story.

The Bible describes a deluge for 40 days and 40 nights that created a flood so great that Noah was stuck in his ark for two weeks until the water subsided.

The multiple legends do mention that, and a large local flood could cause you to be trapped for awhile. But what we don't see is a have caused a massive die-off of fish species and whales and dolphins and so forth at this time (global flood). We don't see or read about widespread destruction of fish species at the time.

Such a flood would have caused a great (or even major) extinction of species of animals including the specialists such as manatees, lemurs, and a lot of other things. We'd see a "great extinction" event taking place at that time. Instead, the last "great extinction" event took place about 12,000 years ago.

I think the guy is a) comet-happy and b) has absolutely no knowledge of physics or astronomy. Or geology. Or weather systems.


[edit on 26-4-2009 by Byrd]

reply to post by mmiichael


"So along with the giant ark made of gopher wood, and the pairs of every animal on Earth, let's put this charming story in some realistic perspective."

And let us not forget the important part my grandnephew brought up: Gophers are mammals, they're not made of wood.

reply to post by Naturally Smooth


There are ideas that multiple comets hit the Earth over 10,000 years ago. They could have melted ice from the glaciers back then and caused massive flooding. All peoples have flood myths in their stories, and they could have come from that cataclysmic event.

reply to post by Byrd


Two things: One, I really recommend you read this link, as it contains much more detailed information than the Discover article:

Recent Cosmic Impacts on Earth

From Page 3:

Chinese sources recount how the cosmic monster Gong Gong knocked over a pillar of heaven and caused flooding toward the end of the reign of Empress Nu Wa, around 2810 BC. The 3rd century BC Egyptian historian Manetho says there was an "immense disaster" (but doesn't say what kind) during the reign of the pharaoh Semerkhet, around 2800 BC. The tomb of Semerkhet's successor, Qa'a, was built of poorly dried mud bricks and timbers showing unusual decay; the following pharaohs of the second dynasty relocated the royal cemetery to higher ground. Masse's analysis of astrological references in multiple myths from the Middle East, India and China--describing planetary conjunctions associated with the flood storm, whose actual times of occurrence can be reconstructed using contemporary astronomy software--leads him to conclude that the event happened on or about May 10, 2807 BC.

Two, would you mind describing how the "physics is really off," as well as your qualifications in the field of physics?

Thank you.

Nope an Anunaki mothership did.

reply to post by Byrd


I think you ought to read the available papers on this subject review and the credentials of the scientists working on it before casting such dispersions as this.

"I think the guy is a) comet-happy and b) has absolutely no knowledge of physics or astronomy. Or geology. Or weather systems.


I would tend to think that a guy who runs the archeological digs for the los alamos nat labs, is a qualifieed archeologist and that he does rub elbows with some of the brightest ,minds in the fields of physycis and astonomy and meteorology.
After all scientists working at the los alamos nat labs have done some of the most ground breaking work on celestial body impacts.

This doesnt represnt the work of some loon like stichin or the likes but the works of a several respected researchers each studining their own field.


Im actually quite surprised at your response Byrd, to just off handedly dismiss the work of qualified scientists.

Some people hate this subject and I believe Byrd is one of them. The term "Great Flood" always brings to mind the biblical narrative and most see that as fantasy. I bet she's tired of repeating herself about there being no evidence of a great deluge. I've given up discussing that subject here on ATS. I'll reply to a thread on that subject but I won't start one. Hanslune and Byrd would rather discuss actual digs and how they relate to already established archaeology. You must find common ground that has no hint of religious bias.

Lately I've had more fun talking about the early Mesoamerican contact theory because it has no religious bias. Coming here to ATS has never changed my mind about the Biblical narrative but the words of wisdom coming from people like Byrd and Hanslune have made ancient history more interesting. It's like having your own personal tutor.

[edit on 27-4-2009 by lostinspace]

Originally posted by Naturally Smooth
reply to post by Byrd

 

Two things: One, I really recommend you read this link, as it contains much more detailed information than the Discover article:

Recent Cosmic Impacts on Earth

Thank you! The detail is actually more convincing to some degree and while I would tend to agree with the concept that local myths sometimes describe meteors landing in the area, I find some spots of it unconvincing. Again, this could be from lack of complete data... I don't have his book, of course.

From Page 3:

Chinese sources recount how the cosmic monster Gong Gong knocked over a pillar of heaven and caused flooding toward the end of the reign of Empress Nu Wa, around 2810 BC. The 3rd century BC Egyptian historian Manetho says there was an "immense disaster" (but doesn't say what kind) during the reign of the pharaoh Semerkhet, around 2800 BC. The tomb of Semerkhet's successor, Qa'a, was built of poorly dried mud bricks and timbers showing unusual decay; the following pharaohs of the second dynasty relocated the royal cemetery to higher ground. Masse's analysis of astrological references in multiple myths from the Middle East, India and China--describing planetary conjunctions associated with the flood storm, whose actual times of occurrence can be reconstructed using contemporary astronomy software--leads him to conclude that the event happened on or about May 10, 2807 BC.

It's data like that which causes me some doubt. The "Gong Gong" story may be related to local weather-based flooding of unusual magnitude. Manetho (I've been discussing this recently) is a Greek priest who was recording Egyptian history and gave a "kings list" with Hellenized names.

Wikipedia has a short and good review of the reign of Semerkhet (from 2900, not 2800) and goes into the fact that he was an usurper and tried to remove his predecessor's name (destroying him in the afterlife) only to have his own name destroyed: en.wikipedia.org...

I don't know that the tomb of Q'aa was poorly constructed. Not all of the tombs were formed from granite or limestone, and the ones from that era are in pretty bad shape (see the tomb of Den and others up to Semerkeht): www.touregypt.net...

Two, would you mind describing how the "physics is really off," as well as your qualifications in the field of physics?

I will in a later post (very tired tonight) but in brief, I taught college calculus for a number of semesters and also taught high school physics. I have some idea of explosions and all though I'm not a physicist for any company.

Calculus, and physics are not a prerequisite for a degree in Archaeology. I'm a member of the Texas Archaeological Society, and have a tiny bit of field experience as well as cataloging and identification experience.

I do, by the way, have a Masters' in Anthropology and rock art is one of my specialized fields of study. Masse's identification of a 'horned serpent' as a comet caught my attention (and annoyed me, because if he'd been doing good rock art research he would have recognized it as probably being Quetzalcoatl, who shows up in Southwest rock art (I'm saying "probably" because I haven't seen the piece he's seen (to my knowledge) but I've seen a good deal of it, some in the area near Los Alamos.) He's not the oldest God Symbol, but he's certainly old and quite popular in rock art of the area.)

Originally posted by lostinspace
Some people hate this subject and I believe Byrd is one of them. The term "Great Flood" always brings to mind the biblical narrative and most see that as fantasy. I bet she's tired of repeating herself about there being no evidence of a great deluge.

Noted... and 'guilty as charged.' I noticed myself that it's sort of turned into a hot button with me. Ditto the "comets wiped out civilization" bits.

I can't say that I actively hate them (because I do admit that local events like the Tungaska expolsion) can have a huge impact on a local area. But I'm biased against them because so often there's bad science or no science there. A good example is in the main article, the identification of what sounds like a solid description of the petroglyph for Quetzalcoatl (found in the area) being described as a comet without further information.

I've seen (and am convinced) by things like the star patterns at Painted Rocks, Texas and the Chumash pictograph of the formation of the Crab Nebula.

But, yeah... the "this huge rock hits the ocean and causes tsunamis worldwide that obliterates civilizations and swamps the tombs at Abydos (which is not anywhere near the sea, but rather in the middle of Egypt and some 400 miles away from the ocean in any direction) does cause me to grit my teeth and go "grrrr."

Guilty as charged. In the name of scholarly integrity, I confess my bias.