Swine Flu news and updates thread

reply to post by EDteach

Originally posted by EDteach
reply to post by elitegamer23

 

Forgive me fellow ATS's, but I feel I must repeat a quote from an earlier post I made:
Public health employee in my state, "36,000 deaths of young, healthy people is NOT THE SAME THING as 36,000 deaths of the elderly!"

Clearly, this is so simple to understand:
LOSING A CHILD IS SO VERY DIFFERENT THAT LOSING AN ELDERLY PARENT.

that is what you are not seeing here. 36,000 young healthy people have not died from the swine flu.

how simple is that to understand?

i know this thread is not the place to disagree because it has a herd mentallity raging , but sometimes when people become too paranoid something should be said.

id bet some people are losing more years of their lives being worried about the swine flu then the actually swine flu will take from them.

im not starting with you, im simply replying to you.

Originally posted by dizziedame
As I sit here trying to keep my anxiety from turning into a full blown panic attack I have realized something special about this thread.

This thread is the best example of fear mongering and ignorance I've seen on ATS since I've been a member.

There is so much speculation not backed up by facts and a lot of very bad feelings between members on this very important thread.

its never a good thing when people take up the role of a shepherd and they blindly lead their sheep.

dont let this thread change your view of ats. usually people live by common sense and facts and not simple heresy.

[edit on 25-5-2009 by elitegamer23]

Thank you Elite. Alternate facts and seeing the truth from another angle is NOT bickering. It is a necessary function of finding what fits the facts the best. Seeing those facts differently is not a crime. It is necessary and admirable.

Too many people have fallen into the "two ways" trap. Two parties. Two colours. Good Evil. You agree with me or you disagree with me. You're either with me, or you are against me. I'm right, you're wrong. Left, Right.

Everything becomes a dichotomy. A false dichotomy.

Resist the polarization.

Originally posted by Aeons
Thank you Elite. Alternate facts and seeing the truth from another angle is NOT bickering. It is a necessary function of finding what fits the facts the best. Seeing those facts differently is not a crime. It is necessary and admirable.

some people in this thread just have too much stock into what they have been saying. if what you say doesnt agree with them , they would rather put their fingers in their ears because it could hurt their porfolio.


UPDATE
www.google.com...
NYC woman in 50s becomes US' 11th swine flu death

A woman died over the weekend of swine flu, becoming the city's second victim and the nation's 11th.

The woman, who was in her 50s, had other health conditions

this doesnt only kill the young and healthy. actually it seems to kill those who already have an underlying health condition.

ill also add, its only killed 11 people in the usa. not to diminish their deaths at all but, its safe to go outside people.

Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once - shakespeare



[edit on 25-5-2009 by elitegamer23]

Originally posted by dizziedame
This thread is the best example of fear mongering and ignorance I've seen on ATS since I've been a member.

No need to ignore me because I will not be back as this thread is not in the spirit of ATS which is denying ignorance.

And the winner of "most ironic post in the thread goes to......."

The percentage of discussions on ATS based on pure speculation and non sourced theory is probably 75% or better. Unfortunately this discussion has proven to have a solid base in factual, verified evidence. I'm starting to think that's a huge part of why some people feel compelled to attack it.

Apparently it's "deny ignorance minus my own willful need to bury my head in the sand" for some people. At least she has the common sense to leave the discussion rather than contribute to the attempts to shred it.

I'm curious how many of elitegamer23's friends list members will be dropping in to repeat the "fear mongering" accusation . . .

[edit on 25-5-2009 by ecoparity]

Australia Swine Flu Cases to Rise, Authority Says (Update1)

reply to post by Aeons


Okay, Aeons. Thanks for the advice about the anti-inflammatories. You might have saved my life for a couple or more days.

I just had a bout with this crap virus. My arms were numb for the last two hours, and when trying to sleep I would get 1 or 2 second bouts of shortness of breath. Very scary.

I took some alka seltzer just now, the only anti-inflammatory I could find in my parent's house without waking up the house and causing a spectacle. Now I'm starting to get feeling back in my fingers.

I think I'm going to have to go and get a chest x-ray tomorrow, as Ecoparity suggested earlier.

Just for those who don't believe, this virus is no joke. Best beware.

Originally posted by captaintrippy
Australia Swine Flu Cases to Rise, Authority Says (Update1)

Australia’s swine flu cases will rise from the current 18, chief medical officer Jim Bishop said.

Cases have been confirmed in five of Australia’s eight states and territories. The government on May 22 updated its pandemic alert to “contain,” the third-highest level. The next level, “sustain,” means the virus is established and spreading.

“I think we will see the number rise,” Bishop told the Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio today. “This is going to be a marathon rather than a sprint.”

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Well that's disappointing. Australia actually had a chance to enact border controls and bio surveillance against the swine flu. As "gung ho" as the leadership was acting in the press I had hopes they would actually do better than the rest of the World in that regard.

It seems they were either unable to impede the invasion or unwilling to fully implement the pandemic response plan. (Or simply too slow)

Has any country set the example for the rest in this regard? We had high hopes for Japan also but they failed almost as badly as the US. Only the wide spread availability in Japan of a working test kit able to actually detect this strain of H1N1 could be seen as a "success".

These people are not giving me the confidence I require that the future response to an H5N1 outbreak will be much better.

reply to post by ecoparity

Originally posted by ecoparity


And the winner of "most ironic post in the thread goes to......."

[edit on 25-5-2009 by ecoparity]

i never got to vote for the 'most ironic post in the thread'

i would have put my vote somewhere like this.

this was at a time when you were telling everyone you had inside sources telling you that many people were going to die. weeks later 11 people have died in the usa.

Originally posted by ecoparity

To my fellow "fear mongers" who stocked up on food and medical supplies I say "good job" and let's try and be supportive as the PTB try and make the leap to telling people to prepare. They will be accused of trying to scare people but the fact is real "panic" in these type of scenarios is very rare.

My kid's school is still open and I can no longer keep them home without endangering their standing. If the school ends up closing this week and either of them become sick I'm going to be looking for someone to hold responsible.

your fact that real panic is very rare was kinda shot down when you admited you kept your kids home from school. you were the one who was showing real panic so it must not be too rare.

even though you were saying people should stay out of public places or they are going to get sick and possibly die you sent your kids back to school. irony!

that post might have gotten my vote for most ironic.

[edit on 25-5-2009 by elitegamer23]

The on going theme of this thread also has been to share info and for the end user to shuffle through and base there own mind on what they find suits them..I dont think anyone here is passing their words as gospful..

I am glad Eco and The borg has been keeping this thread alive..If its not in your status que to agree,why even bother to type a responce?


I am also gratefull to all who has shed any positive light in this thread,specificly a personal expeirience of a loved one not being open to a problem on the horizon,I have and am dealing with just the same thing..I feal as though its being responsible,wether be right or wrong at the end..

reply to post by elitegamer23


What are you afraid of? That all of the so called "fear mongering" might actually have some basis in fact? Guess what? IT DOES.

People ARE going to die. This is just the beginning.

Originally posted by CINY8
From the NY Times:

“As we see more cases in the community we are going to see more severe illness and possibly death,” Ms. Scaperotti said. “If you’re sick right now with flu, you probably have H1N1.”

www.nytimes.com...

Also - in regards to avoiding drugs/herbs to enhance your immune system, the advice not to use them is due to the fact that in some instances a cytokine storm can happen:

en.wikipedia.org...

Hi guys,
once again, thanks for the updates and for the interesting posts! I have been reading quite a bit yesterday and if you allow me I would like to ask a question regarding the cytokine storm problem. I downloaded and read most of the "Good Home Treatmen of Influenza" guide and have been reading some blogs that I encountered in the past few weeks. The former does not include any herbs or essences, but the latter are filled with advices regarding them; i.e. making a tea with clove oil, cinnamon oil and honey, or dringing an echinacea tincture etc.. Now I just want to know if I understand this correctly. Those natural remedies boost the immune system, so in the case of a regular/seasonal influenza they would actually help and be a great asset. In the case of this novel influenza, if you get the mild variants, they would also help. But if you get the variant that induces a cytokine storm, they can be the nail in your coffin. Did I understand this correctly? So, what can I do? Would it be logical to say:

Not taking them MAY increase your suffering, but won't precipitate chances of dying in ANY way; however taking them MAY help you in some cases but MAY also precipitate your death.

If this is correct, would it be prudent to completely leave natural herbs out of the treatment? If not, how can I decide what to take and when to take it? I will be reading a bit about herbs, as another user suggested. It's just frustrating that these are supposed to be cures but can turn against you.

Just speculating here, but...

Does anybody else think that the probable downplay of this virus maybe because countires like North America don't want to look vulnerable in the eyes of their enemies, say North Korea perhaps?

Originally posted by Hx3_1963
And...

Surveillance and Detection
22 May 2009
A New Influenza Virus
fhp.osd.mil...

Department of Defense Pharmacoeconomic Center
(Editorial); Highlights of the November 2002 Meetings of the DoD P&T .... Help E-mail Service), Anticipated Delay in Flu Vaccine Availability .... Cromolyn inhalers and the TSF, Beclomethasone inhalers and the TSF, In the Literature. ...
rxnet.army.mil...

(locked)Hmmm...

Story Submitted: Nov 01, 2008
Flu Vaccinations Now Available at Base Clinic
www.quantico.usmc.mil...

[edit on 5/24/2009 by Hx3_1963]

I managed to access the rxnet.army.mil site. (legally)

Any particular info you were looking for?

And thanks for the link, very interesting information, going to spend some time exploring the site.

PS. Big thanks to both yourself and Eco for the time and effort you have put in on this thread. getting lots of good info

reply to post by ecoparity

Well that's disappointing. Australia actually had a chance to enact border controls and bio surveillance against the swine flu. As "gung ho" as the leadership was acting in the press I had hopes they would actually do better than the rest of the World in that regard. It seems they were either unable to impede the invasion or unwilling to fully implement the pandemic response plan. (Or simply too slow)

They were too slow on the uptake. We had over 100 people being tested (negative results mind you) when this started a month ago, and they are now only getting to the point of being concerned.

Being in the ADF, decide today to have a look for info that is supposed to be briefed to the troops. Found that their information page is 7 days behind everyone else, with only the basic symptoms of flu being listed.

On a positive note, the media has commenced the Swine Flu commercials, What to look out for, how to wash hands, cough into tissues etc. Personally, I would have been running them about two weeks ago, if not for the swine flu then for the simple fact we are heading into our normal flu season.

Will keep watching and see how this progresses

Please, can we keep this thread on topic ie: SWINE FLU NEWS AND UPDATES. If you want to debate fearmongering etc can you please create a new thread.

In reply to Antmar

Who exactly are you pointing that post to?

Are you a mod?

[edit on 25-5-2009 by skitzspiricy]

Swine flu scare: cruise ship quarantined

Authorities have quarantined another cruise ship in Sydney because of swine flu concerns, disrupting the travel plans of around 2,000 people.

A spokeswoman for P and O cruises says the Health Department is awaiting swine test results on two passengers, who returned on the cruise ship from the South Pacific this morning.

The ship was due to set off back to the South Pacific at 4:30pm AEST but is awaiting approval from the Health Department before it can depart.

Around 1,400 passengers have already boarded the ship and 600 others have been told to return to the Darling Harbour terminal at 6:00pm to find out whether they can embark.

P and O's spokeswoman Sandy Olsen says concerns were raised after several passengers who returned on the ship from the South Pacific this morning tested positive to the Influenza A virus.

She says as a precaution the Health Department conducted further tests for swine flu and they are awaiting those results before the ship will be allowed to leave.

"It's incredibly inconvenient for passengers and we'd like to apologise to those passengers whose holidays aren't getting the start that they were hoping," she said.

The national total of swine flu cases is 18. A 20-year-old Queensland student became the 17th victim last night and Western Australia confirmed its first case this morning.

reply to post by skitzspiricy


Anyone. This thread is so long and takes ages to read through as it is.

I enjoy reading both 'sides' of this topic. It keeps me thinking & questioning. So I hope everyone stays on the thread.... and contribute if they have views, regardless if it doesn't 'fit' with the majority!

Its the off-topic, finger-pointing, personal attacks and bickering I find frustrating having to wade through it.


On topic:

I've noticed that the WHO website have not posted any updates yesterday or today, yet. Perhaps they are not going to have Sunday updates now?

For those of you that read my 'WHO Data - Actual' posts I'll post as soon as the info comes to hand.

Here is a portion of Dr Margaret Chans Closing remarks at the Who assemby, dated 22 May, which relate to the current pandemic situation.

Please visit source for the full speech.

Bold is by me which I feel is important...

First, this is a very contagious virus. We expect it to continue to spread to new countries and continue to spread within countries already affected. Here, we have little doubt.

Second, this is a subtle, sneaky virus. It does not announce its presence or arrival in a new country with a sudden explosion of patients seeking medical care or requiring hospitalization. In fact, most countries need a sudden explosion of laboratory testing to detect its presence and follow its tracks.

...

Third, up to now, the new virus has largely circulated in the Northern Hemisphere, where epidemics of seasonal influenza should be winding down. We need to watch the behaviour of H1N1 very carefully as it encounters other influenza viruses circulating during the winter season in the Southern Hemisphere. The current winter season gives influenza viruses an opportunity to inter-mingle and possibly exchange their genetic material in unpredictable ways.

Fourth, in cases where the H1N1 virus is widespread and circulating within the general community, countries must expect to see more cases of severe and fatal infections. We do not, at present, expect this to be a sudden and dramatic jump in severe illnesses and deaths. But countries, especially in the developing world, where populations are most vulnerable, should prepare to see more than the present small number of severe cases, which are being picked up under the best detection and testing conditions possible.

reply to post by elitegamer23

Kiora Elite,

Yes you're totally right there, it doesn't appear to just kill the young, but also older people. The mortality rate also seems to increase with age.

However, the infection/death rate percertage is unfortunately a lot higher in general for our young people.

According to the Who Weekly epidemiological record for May 22, on page two, the percentages for Mexico are:


Age - Confirmed cases - % confirm - Confirmed deaths - % death - Case-fatality ratio

0-9 - 1046 - 28% - 6 - 8.1% - 0.6%
10-19 - 943 - 25.3% - 4 - 5.4% - 0.4%
20-29 - 754 - 20.2% - 21 - 28.4% - 2.8%
30-39 - 413 - 11.1% - 17 - 23.0% - 4.1%
40-49 - 306 - 8.2% - 12 - 16.2% - 3.9%
50-59 - 183 - 4.9% - 10 - 13.5% - 5.5%
>60 - 68 - 1.8% - 4 - 5.4% - 5.9%
Unknown - 21 - 0.6% - 0 - 0.00% - 0.0%

Total - 3734 - 100% - 74% - 100% - 2.0%


As you can see, the distrubing trend for these stats is that over 53% of those infected are under the age on 19.

And the mortality rate for this same age group is a lot lower at 13.5%.

Edit to correct a number



[edit on 25/5/09 by antmar]