New land for Israel

reply to post by finemanm


yeah. nice shot. shame that i live in the middle east. so, i wouldnt have to read a book. I hope someone writes a book that will make some sense about the region though. not many around.

Originally posted by LordKnowaLot

shame that i live in the middle east. so, i wouldnt have to read a book. I hope someone writes a book that will make some sense about the region though. not many around.

Just on my way out the door - so excuse the quick reply.

There are a number of books by people form the Middle East who have attempted to make sens of it.

Some I've read and most people from there I know just say it just doesn't make any rational sense.

Mike

Originally posted by dooper

So, according to most of the posters here, anyone could come in, say this was once ours, you get off, and I'd have to go.

But isn't that exactly what israel is saying?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!

Incase smilies don't count as a line, line 2.

reply to post by ufoorbhunter


You want to put the Jews on an isolated island chain, or in the frozen tundra?

It would be far easier to put sanctions on Israel to either 1. allow Palestinians unsuppressed citizenship inside Israel, 2. Or a two state system where they can op for Israeli or Palestinian citizenship (Like North Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.)

reply to post by breakingdradles


Taking land from the Arabs? What? In your world view there are no Arab countries?

Algeria, Bahrain, Chad, Comoros, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Mauritania, Morocco, Oman, Palestinian Authority, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, UAE, Western Sahara, Yemen. All are considered part of the Arab World.

Israel. The only Jewish country.

You're so right, that little speck of land that's about 50 miles from Jordanian border to coast is obviously unfair. It should never have been created because it robbed a minuscule amount of land from the other 26 countries.

reply to post by ufoorbhunter


Deuchtland, Deutchland, uber alles....

You have succeeded in reducing an entire nation to little more then chattle to be bartered and traded to ease the troubles of your, racist, hating, mind.

You gently couch it in "I understand their troubles but..." language to assuage your disgusting vile hatred. You and all of the haters who agreed with you are headed for an extra warm spot when you pass to the world of judgement, whatever that may be. I know the vast majority of your racist club members see no final judgement and that frees you to rationalize that your actions in this world have no consequences. I guess you will find out.

reply to post by Dnevnoi


Well this is innately true and actually as the thread shows applies to both peoples the Jews and the current occupants of the region.

For all intents and purposes if you wished to forget the past and make peace you would move the Palestinians... because they have no infrastructure worth talking about, there is no major trade or economic imperative in their presence, in terms of the long history and religion the Jewish (faith) has the longer history. Islam has Mecca and Medina, Catholicism has the Vatican and both religions owe their philosophies at one level or another to the Jewish faith... so there would even be an argument for "Fair" in there...

But at the bottom of it... it would be allot easier for the palestinians and the world and economy for them to move.

No one will offer them anything of value in the world of Islam dozens of nations, billions of acres of land... 1.5 billion muslims worldwide...

DITTO

For the West and Israel even if it was more practical to relocate the Israelis

So this isn't really about Israel and Palestine

It's about the rest of the world posturing and fighting for territory and control and being unwilling to part with a single INCH for peace.

Both Israel and Palestine are being USED by various factions for their own purposes and neither group wants to recognize it they want to feel "important" when Russia or Iran or America or European Nations or the Saudi USE them as bargaining chips.

reply to post by masonwatcher


Never heard of self-determination have you? If a group of people consider themselves ethnically or ideologically diverse from another group then they have the right to create a home for themselves. The Jews wanted a country of their own, but of course there was nobody willing to give up their land so they had to have a country controlling land to be given territory.

I cannot see the value of giving up Israel. It is an exporter of food in this world when food is growing scarce. The place would return to a desert in a heartbeat if the Israeli's left and then we would have to ship out aid for even more people. At least Israel does have an Arab Minority and supports them even when there is racial tension.

Also the place would descend into a bloodbath. Hezbollah, Hamas and Fatah would all strive for power causing huge civil wars. Egypt, Syria and Jordan would likely invade causing even more bloodshed.

[edit on 31/7/2009 by Persicoana]

Originally posted by Persicoana
I cannot see the value of giving up Israel. It is an exporter of food in this world when food is growing scarce. The place would return to a desert in a heartbeat if the Israeli's left and then we would have to ship out aid for even more people. At least Israel does have an Arab Minority and supports them even when there is racial tension.

I really can't let you get away with this propaganda. Israel is very bad at agriculture, kibbutzim are utter failures that contribute to desertification, the Israeli occupation forces destroy orchard groves owned by Palestinians and Israel's largest commercial producer and exporter, Agrexco, of fruits, vegetables and cereals uses imported third world labour.

Agrexco is defined by the right wing Israeli government as an element required for regional domination and is the primary reason that Israel embarked on the war against the Lebanon in 2006 to secure a 300 mile deep buffer zone that happens to include the Lebanese Litani River.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9106fefb208b.jpg[/atsimg]

Here is information on Israel's dwindling water resources and its inability to match its resources with its ambitions;

By the year 2020, Israel's population is expected to grow by 42 percent, to 8.5 million. This will cause huge increases in demand for agricultural produce and products; but urban use of land and water will also increase enormously.

In 2020 only half the amount of fresh water allocated to agriculture today (around 700 million cubic meters a year) will be available for this purpose and the amount of suitable land available for farming (360,000 hectares) will be 18 percent less than at present. www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

Nobel Prize-winning economist Gary Becker has a fascinating post on Israel's kibbutzim.

The kibbutz movement was motivated in part by the Marxian dictum of "from each according to his abilities to each according to his needs".

Utopian socialistic experiments like the kibbutz movement, and countries that tried to create large-scale efficient socialism, all failed...
www.becker-posner-blog.com...

Israeli activities on Palestinian land, farm successfully for centuries by Palestinians, has resulted in desertification;

www.demotix.com...

You see in the zionist mind, up is down and down is up. In the same way the Palestinians have been violated, the land is being violated. The only reason Israel is producing any agricultural food stuffs is because of the exceptional reliance on the US tax payer's dime.

Also the place would descend into a bloodbath. Hezbollah, Hamas and Fatah would all strive for power causing huge civil wars. Egypt, Syria and Jordan would likely invade causing even more bloodshed.

This is mere speculation and has no basis on reality. You make it seem like Palestinians are little punching robots that will continue throwing punches even if there was no Israel.

With regards to your allegations against Egypt, Syria and Jordan, it is complete nonsense and has no basis on reality. In fact, Israel is now making claims on Jordanian territory now on land it claims were owned by Jews when the area was occupied by the Britain. Strangely enough this land is includes rivers and headwaters.

Jews to Reclaim Land in Jordan?

by Maayana Miskin

(IsraelNN.com) The Israel Land Fund, a group dedicated to restoring Jewish property in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria, is reportedly looking east. According to AFP, the organization plans to begin buying historically Jewish properties in Jordan as well.

Many Jews purchased land in what is now Jordan during the British Mandate, when such land was seen primarily as part of the greater Land of Israel. In 1946 Jordan declared independence as an Arab, Muslim country.

Israel cannot exist without a crisis. When this head of steam builds up, the Israelis will be recruiting a new enemy for the US.


[edit on 053131p://pm3141 by masonwatcher]

reply to post by masonwatcher

Thanks for clarifying some of the points I made and correcting some points. Regarding the food I agree after doing further research that it isn't exactly great.

Whatever option either removing Israel or keeping it there will bring violence. I cannot see a feasible solution which will end in peace either way other than what is currently being proposed in the present day.

Say the Palestinians were removed. There would be an uproar in Muslim states and most likely a war would follow. If Israeli's are removed then it would become a grab for power between Hamas, Fatah and Hezbollah and the nations around Israel. This would cause immense loss of life on a scale not seen in any of Israel's recent conflicts.

We can only hope that peace will come via a diplomatic route and the siege of Gaza lifted. But for removing either side it will only bring more problems than it solves.

Originally posted by Masonwatcher
With regards to your allegations against Egypt, Syria and Jordan, it is complete nonsense and has no basis on reality. In fact, Israel is now making claims on Jordanian territory now on land it claims were owned by Jews when the area was occupied by the Britain. Strangely enough this land is includes rivers and headwaters.

Although I was impling after Israel had left the nations around would attack, I completely agree here. The fact Israel is trying to expand in the present into non disputed territories is clearly wrong and should be immediately stopped.


[edit on 1/8/2009 by Persicoana]

The original sin was to decide that this "land without a people" should be divided between this "people without a land" and ... the former owners of this land.

From the very beginning, the Palestinians who lived on the lands given to the Jews had no chance to stay there.

By all means, which includes murder and terrorism, they were chased from their own land.

The same occured and is occuring nowadays on the others lands later occupied by the Jewish army. (West Bank and Eastern Jerusalem)

The Zionists lead the Jews into a dead-end dilemna.

As strong as the Zionist state can be, including the nuclear power ( to be used on their own land ?) it will never be able to maintain the presence of eight million of mighty invaders in the midst of tens and tens of million people enraged against them.

That is as simple as that. It's not hate speach. It's realism.

So, one day or another, they will have to go.
To Hell if they want, but they will go, or die on the land "given by their God"

We cannot redo history.
We cannot say : "They should have gone to Namibia, or Australia, or elsewhere". Because they didn't.

The real scenario is coming to its real end.
And it's not a happy end.

reply to post by orkson


These Muslim Israelis weren't chased from their land until the 1948-49 invasion by Lebanon, Syria, Transjordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt.

Once the invasion began to "make the ground run with Israeli blood," many Muslim Israelis hauled ass to neighboring countries, rather than helping to defend Israel, and merely weren't allowed to return.

I don't blame Israel for that. Any chicken* who ran out of me wouldn't be allowed in my presence again, either.

This migration during this invasion was also to enable the considerable Arab forces a "free fire zone." They wouldn't have to worry about killing Muslim civilians, freeing them to fire openly as only Israeli military and Israeli civilians would be left.

And they had the balls to want to RETURN?

Hell no!

1967 - another invasion threatened and troops were gathered on the borders of Israel for months.

Israel won, and gained more land.

Just like every other nation of earth, all through the millennia.

The Palestinians don't like it?

Then choke on it.

reply to post by ufoorbhunter


I read somewhere on some supposed whistleblower's site that according to Zionist plans..during WWIII, Israel would take the south island of New Zealand, and China would take the North, in a cooperative staged "conflict" strategic attempt to have the best base of action in preparation to take Antarctica when the poles shift in 2012 and the Earth turns 45 degrees, thereby making Antarctica a newly open land for settlement and development... being in a temparate climate, melting it's ice...

contemporary logic would have Chile/argentina be the best place.. but i guess that doesn't fit into the forcasted plate tectonics movement for 2012 or something?... and how the continent of Zealandia would also be raised.. being more land to procure for the new earth..

forgot where I read it.. guess you'll have to google for it.





[edit on 1-8-2009 by prevenge]