Originally posted by budski
A good topic - thanks OP!
There are many factors, and certainly I believe that there is a conspiracy element here, but only in the fact that fast food chains deliberatelt try to "hook" people into addiction by the use of sugars and simple carbs.
Alongside this is the lifestyle choice, as well as the lazy factor.
Put another way, I can make a healthy, balanced meal in the time it takes to get in a car and go to the nearest drivethru.
Media is also to blame - we are constantly bombarded with ads telling us how tasty this "food" is, and the problem is, some people believe it.
Education is the key.
We could kill two birds with one stone, and get rid of these leech-like corporariotns, use less resources and become healthier, just by the process of education.
Now if only we could get people to listen, instead of staring at the idiot box....
Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd
reply to post by rapunzel222
Oh, I'm interested. This is a discussion forum. We're supposed to discuss. If you don't want people commenting on your posts, start a blog and turn off the comments.
You make these assertions yet you provide no source. I'm saying that for every study you claim to have read that proves meat to be the devil, I'll provide you with actual studies that show the exact opposite.
also, obviously dont drink coke, soft drink, anything with aspartame in it like equal; caffeine (coffee) - green /herbal tea is ok.
make sure get enough protein by beans/chickpeas/lentils/corn etc.
Coffee? I believe the verdict is not out yet on the effects of coffee although there have been multiple studies demonstrating coffee's health benefits. Coffee berry is one of the best sources for antioxidants.
people need to be getting all minerals too; often iodine deficient (seaweed); magnesium deficient (green vegies); selenium deficient (nuts - brazil nuts); calcium - figs/bread; vit d - sunlight - 15 mins a day; enzymes - q 10 - flaxseed oil etc etc. essential sugars/proteins. chinese herbs are a good way of getting your minerals u may be lacking and fixing any health probs too. mushrooms often found in the herbal combos can cure lots of th ings.
While I agree with 90% of that quote, I can't agree with the bold. There is no such thing as an essential sugar/carbohydrate; however, protein and fat are completely different stories.
there's plenty of evidence to back up my assertions about meat. I started this thread to inform people about the existance of the book : the china study incase they want to read it and inform themselves.
There's no evidence in this thread that back up your assertions. Period. So you started this thread as a book recommendation but you conveniently titled your thread, Conspiracy to keep people fat and unhealthy?, which is it? I think it's funny that you started the thread making claims, after which you decided to plug the book. This thread is nothing more than opinion presented as fact.
You coming on here and arrogantly accusing me of false assertions without even reading the material i pointed out to you seems a little dumb. Why dont you go on another thread? this ones for people who want to read the books im talking about and discuss it.
Dumb? I think providing no evidence is dumb. I think ignoring the facts is dumb. I think posting a thread in a discussion forum and then telling those who disagree with you to leave your thread is dumb. I've read your material and I've read The China Study and I believe that it's a bogus study and that many studies conducted after it were evidence of this accusation.
I'm sure you didn't read my material, did you? Do you know why there are so many conflicting studies released almost daily? It's because most of these studies are epidemiological and aren't meant to determine causation.
“Eating foods that contain any cholesterol above 0 mg is unhealthy.”
"Folic acid is a compound derived exclusively from plant-based foods such as green and leafy vegetables."
Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Very interesting however i have one problem with what you say, when we talk of calories in and calories out we aren't talking biology, we're talking physics. If the energy in is less than the energy out the human body will use it's reserves. This is a simple fact, whilst leptin resistance may be a key, it does come down to will power for the majority of people. Obviously people on drugs like steroids will have a great deal of trouble. In the end this can easily be proven by taking an obese person, monitoring them 24/7 and watching their weight plummet. This has been down many times, even tv shows about obese people have covered it.
*Case Study #1:
National Level Cross Country Skier; Female - 20y
Client Information from September 2002:
5’6" ; 160lb ; 22% fat
(125lb lean, 35lbs fat)
Client Information from December 2002:
5’6" ; 135lb ; 9% fat
(123lb lean, 12lbs fat)
Net result — 12 weeks:
25lbs lost; -23lb fat; -2lbs lean
*Note that in case study #1, we increased energy intake by a whopping 1500 per day while energy expenditure remained the same. Since the athlete was weight stable in September—prior to hiring me—you might have expected her to have gained weight during our 12 week program. However, as you can see, she lost 25lbs (while preserving most of her muscle mass). Since the energy balance model above, as it appears, can’t explain this very interesting result, that’s one strike.
What interests me now is the idea that a high carbohydrate diet, recommended by western medicine may be harmful! Or maybe it's only the simple carbohydrates that are causing this problem and complex ones are still ok.
I still hold fast to the opinion that the majority of obese people can control their diet with will power and they are simply lazy and weak willed. If that offends people then sorry but that is the stark truth.
Again yes and no. The modern eating habits we have often do cause insulin resistance as we have an abundance of simple carbohydrates which we readily shove down our throats. Just look at people who drink 2 liters of fizzy, sugar filled drinks each day on top of their usual food intake! I have no doubt that this would cause insulin resistance and that is why we're seeing mroe of it.
However saying it is typically followed by insulin resistance i am not sure about. Maybe we need to separate type II diabetics into two further groups. Those who are insulin resistant, usually due to diet and those who are not insulin resistant and it appears to be genetic or at least have a genetic factor.
Associations of Selected Variables with Mortality for All Cancers in the China Study Total Protein +12%
Animal Protein +3%
Fish Protein +7%
Plant Protein +12%
Total Lipids -6%
Total Calories +16%
Fat % Calories -17%
Fat (questionnaire) -29%*
* statistically significant ** highly significant *** very highly significant
(Data taken from the original monograph of the China Study.)
But the actual data from the original publication paints a different picture. Figure 1 shows selected correlations between macronutrients and cancer mortality. Most of them are not statistically significant, which means that the probability the correlation is due to chance is greater than five percent.
It is interesting to see, however, the general picture that emerges. Sugar, soluble carbohydrates, and fiber all have correlations with cancer mortality about seven times the magnitude of that with animal protein, and total fat and fat as a percentage of calories were both negatively correlated with cancer mortality.
Originally posted by rapunzel222
reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd
well, they guy was a pretty prominent scientist in the usa, and on the board of an important committee for informing the public about health and disease. saying he's a liar and a misinformer just doesnt sound right to me. no one ever had a problem with stuff he did til he wrote this book.
do you really think drug companies would let it get out that cancer - perhpas some types of cancer - could be cured by eating vegetables and avoiding milk? do you know how much money they'd lose if they did?
so who's going to fund the studies to check his stuff out? no one.
you refer to other studies that disagree with his findings. well, i remain skeptical of any other studies, after the stuff he disclosed in his book about certain prominent scientists. i would rather trust him, than people who may be compromised.
also, intuitively, his findings seem to make sense; as far as i can see. do you know that since globalisation has occurred in india and peole have switched from vegetarian to a western diet (meat, dairy, junkfood), rates of heart disease and cancer are skyrocketing? its a fantastic growth industry for pharma companies (that was sarcasm..).
Diet appears to be related to the high rates of CHD, obesity, and diabetes, although a genetic component may exist in some cases. In recent decades, consumption of foodgrains also has shifted from coarse grains (e.g., barley, rye, maize, millet, and sorghum) to refined rice and wheat.
eating plants wont give u unhealthy types of cholesterol in your body. eating meat etc will...
whats wrong with saying there's folic acid in vegetables?
you refer to other studies that disagree with his findings.
mdconsult.com< br />
Data were from the Fukuoka Colorectal Cancer Study, a population-based case-control study, covering 782 cases and 793 controls. Diet was assessed by interview, using newly developed personal-computer software for registering semiquantitative food frequencies. The intake of beef/pork, processed meat, total fat, saturated fat or n-6 PUFA showed no clear association with the overall or subsite-specific risk of colorectal cancer.
reply to post by rapunzel222
Starred for the good information there.
Not 100% the governments fault though,people aren't stuffing down the garbage with a gun held to their head.
But you spend more on food,diets and medicines when you're a porker so what do you really think they want?