HR-1913...An obstruction to teaching Biblical principles?

The so-called hate crimes bill will be used to lay the legal foundation and framework to investigate, prosecute and persecute pastors, business owners, Bible teachers, Sunday School teachers, youth leaders, Christian counselors, religious broadcasters and anyone else who the law deems capable of committing a crime motivated by hate of the victim. The problem is that innocent people like those just mentioned who believe in the Bible teachings will come under the rubric of committing a hate crime if they express their religious beliefs.

H.R. 1913 broadly defines "intimidation. A pastor's sermon could be considered "hate speech" under this legislation if heard by an individual who then acts aggressively against persons based on any "sexual orientation." The pastor could be prosecuted for "conspiracy to commit a hate crime." During congressional committee markup in 2007, Representative Arthur Davis (D-AL) admitted that the legislation will not protect a pastor from prosecution. (So-Called hate crime bill threatens religious freedom)

Read the full opinion article here, describes the bill too

I understand how we must help to protect people of different sexual orientations, but claiming that a pastor's sermon, based on the Bible, could be the instigation of a hate-crime is possibly taking this a bit too far...does anyone agree?

I'm sort of worried about this. Anyone else?

More insanity from the government.
This is truly oppression.
It is time to review those "Protocols",and realize that altho they need to be updated, they are indeed a plan for dominating the world.

NWO/World Government=Zionist Domination

There is nothing in it for the common people.

reply to post by OhZone


Yes, I agree, this does seem like more insanity from the government...what will they do next?...scary...

I think it is possible that sermons could instigate hate crimes, in fact I know that they can - look at certain muslim clerics, and the disdain the some christians have for atheism and such like (not a hate crime as such but not very christianlike)

While I don't think that your average christian sermon/ nor islamic sermon does, this it could be a real possibility.

Also, I want to add that I never would have known about this bill save for listening to a Christian radio station this morning. Seems that bit by bit unreported, "unimportant" ramifications are happening to us and only through sources outside of the typical media sources (such as ATS, the Christian radio station, and others) are we discovering them.

reply to post by shihulud


Yes, I agree with you too. I have been to certain sermons that were down right scary (very hell-fire filled...yikes, wanted to run out the door!).

But hopefully this isn't a first step in the door to produce more bills that will limit religious free speech...you know?

hate speech is hate speech, whether it comes from a pastor or from a white supremacist. Might I remind you that Leviticus demands the death of homosexuals and many others who don't fit into the cookie cutter that is Christianity.

Don't get me wrong, I think people should be allowed to preach against homosexuality and other things they deem sinful -- it's guaranteed by the first amendment -- but anyone calling for the slaying of another individual because of their lifestyle should be prosecuted.

Do you mean that same hate speech where if you disagree with Obama you automatically are racist and therefore hate all people of African descent? Hmmmm. I am sure they would never use this law in that way. So I guess we are all safe. I give a Ye!

reply to post by LiquidLight


I was under the impression that just by mentioning the Bible teaches homosexuality is wrong would be basis enough to charge a pastor with a hate-crime, if one of his flock (and an unstable, most likely mentally ill, psychologically damaged one of his flock at that) were to go out, after listening to the pastor's sermon on homosexuality, and commit a violent crime against a person of a different sexual orientation.

But if this unstable person hid his or her mental troubles, how could the pastor have possibly known this?

This is something I am not quite knowledgeable about...but how many of you have actually heard a pastor/minister/preacher deliver a sermon whereby he or she advocated committing a violent crime against a person of a different sexual orientation?
I have not. Not ever. I have typically heard the sin being stated, and how the sin is wrong, according to the Bible, and warnings of not continuing to live in such a sinful manner, but certainly NOT promoting harm upon those who continue to live in the sinful manner.

I thought a pastor or other spiritual teacher was about converting others, or enlightening others, certainly not promoting violent crimes. But that's just my small world assessment.

Anyone else?


[edit on 24-4-2009 by Astarfaraway]

When pastors scream scriptures at people and works them up in a fervor all sorts of ugly things can happen. So many claim they love the sinner but hate the sin and then proceed to use hateful speech and talk of perverts, sicko's and the like.

Religious freedom is a must. But so is respect, which our christian friends so often don't show to those that don't follow their rhetoric. To legislate behavior though is a bad thing and a slippery slope.

reply to post by Astarfaraway


If it keeps religion out of schools, what's the problem?

Ok to all the frogs in the pot, the water is beginning to boil but you will be dead before then. Why? because you see the problem but just keep sitting there and you figure when it starts to boil you will fight back. Wrong. So keep talking. You say you are angry and outraged, but what are YOU doing about it besides bitching to the choir?

reply to post by redhead57

To legislate behavior though is a bad thing and a slippery slope.

Yes, I agree with what you said. Sure, there are pastors that can whip up a frenzy in the congregation...but usually isn't it directed at converting from sinful behavior to righteous behavior? I have heard frightening sermons on hell but it was certainly not meant to promote violence toward others, but to break down resistances to change, so that righteousness could flourish in the soul...but, that said, I could see how it could maybe be the straw that breaks the back for a certain individual, bringing on anger, rage...

I guess the bottom line on this is we will just have to observe the very first instance of a pastor being charged with a hate crime for giving a particular sermon...and then understand and mull-over all the details involved, and see if we can still sleep at night, comforted that no one's free speech had been violated, comforted that no one's freedom of religious speech or ability to practice a particular religion had been violated...
Because anyone of us could be next...

Just a watch and wait sort of attitude...

This thread about H.R. 1592 discussions virtually the same issue. Except that HR 1913 is to help indian tribes get grants to deal with hate crime issues.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

I'm going to suggest that you read the actual bill; there's nothing in there that warrants the accusations that are being made. In fact, it specificly makes a point about protecting the right to free speech. So unless they're upset that they can't tell their parishioners to go out and hurt/harm/kill their homosexual neighbors, that there's no crime in bible discussion.

SEC. 10. RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.

Nothing in this Act, or the amendments made by this Act, shall be construed to prohibit any expressive conduct protected from legal prohibition by, or any activities protected by the free speech or free exercise clauses of, the First Amendment to the Constitution.

The article posted by the OP is alarmist and misleading.

reply to post by Jadette


Jadette, thank you, and I truly hope this is true, not just an appeasement statement. The Christian radio station I listen to in the morning has been quite forthright and reliable as far as reporting news in a broad spectrum, that is with left- or right-wing emphasis, and so when the DJ mentioned this bill, with concern in his tone, I felt concern myself.

Time will tell...



[edit on 24-4-2009 by Astarfaraway]

reply to post by Astarfaraway


I agree that, if it limited the expression of speach, I'd be alarmed too.

And honestly, I think it's a good thing that we keep a critical eye on everything.

I find it how christrians assume themselves to be a target by this bill. Given the fact that if you look through it, it never at any point clearly labels Christianity as a hate speech. Infact the only mention of religion in H.R. 1913 is that people of religion can commit hate crimes against people of other religions, and the reverse applies as well.


Other than paranoid christian's, this bill is useless. It's already illegal to incite a riot.