European Net Neutrality being threatened?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Some really grim paranoia around here

Its much too late to control "the" internet much less restrict access to "it", unless electricity is turned off. Wondering who is more delusional...those who desire to restrict the Internet or those who are afraid its actually going to happen...

There is no such thing as "the" internet in the sense of one monopolized entity that can be restricted or controlled.

No it’s not a complicated measure at all. It’s already done actually, the US restricts access to many illegal sites. Most all kiddy porn sites from what I remember. And no I am not speaking of sites which block access to users based on locality.

Just search Google for US restricted sites there are many.

It’s always odd when the government wants new legislation for issues that are already addressed etc.

I remeber seeing a list once one a US .gov site. Maybe FBI.gov



[edit on 3-5-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

[edit on 3-5-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


It's also used to control who views certain content. For example, you can watch the latest South Park vids in the US online, but if you try to access from outside, you get a screen saying you cannot due to existing contract issues for those who have the broadcast rights for that programme in your territory.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


I dont mind google restricting crime. But if they start restricting too much, people will simply remember that google is only ONE of many Billions of websites and choose to go elsewhere. Google is not the Internet. Some like to believe so, but they are not.

The Telecoms Reform Package has sod all to do with net neutrality or free speech or restricting the internet. If anything it's about controlling monopolies and providing a basic level of quality of service to the average consumer. The problem here is that people are all to quick to believe some moron bloggers personal interpritation rather than read it for themselves. That would require effort and people are lazy so instead opt for the FUD/bandwagon approach.

What people fail to realize is that the internet has never been free, it has never belonged to the people and the only reason they can view sites like this is becuase the "facsists" they like to whine about have invested heavily in the broadband infrastructure that they have the misguided opinion somehow belongs to them. I'm pretty sure that there is some sort of underlying irony in there somewhere. The internet isn't yours, it isn't mine and as with any other service you pay for, if you don't feel you're getting value for your money, stop paying for it.

I have been saying, for quite some time now, that because Orwell failed to predict the Web, They are scrambling!

I have said that efforts would be made to control information and access.

And here we go.

The web has been an unforseen threat to any and those in power world wide, because normal humans in countries everywhere can talk to one another without the intercession of the media or governments. We can get information straight from the horses mouth.

I hope this legislative garbage does not pass.

Originally posted by quackers
The Telecoms Reform Package has sod all to do with net neutrality or free speech or restricting the internet. If anything it's about controlling monopolies and providing a basic level of quality of service to the average consumer. The problem here is that people are all to quick to believe some moron bloggers personal interpritation rather than read it for themselves. That would require effort and people are lazy so instead opt for the FUD/bandwagon approach.

What people fail to realize is that the internet has never been free, it has never belonged to the people and the only reason they can view sites like this is becuase the "facsists" they like to whine about have invested heavily in the broadband infrastructure that they have the misguided opinion somehow belongs to them. I'm pretty sure that there is some sort of underlying irony in there somewhere. The internet isn't yours, it isn't mine and as with any other service you pay for, if you don't feel you're getting value for your money, stop paying for it.

All technology and break throughs BELONG TO ALL THE PEOPLE. Anyone who thinks otherwise believes in a caste system with ownership at the top.
Sorry, thats a no go!

It always amuses me that even when a certain topic has been "debunked", as it were, there is still an army of people willing to believe the original article, no matter that there is no shred of truth in it.

This "legislative garbage", as someone put, is anything but. Would anyone care to read proper articles or the legislation itself, or would you rather believe a third hand account that is inaccurate and misleading?

reply to post by stumason


I don't much care what this article says, in the end there really is a push to censor the net, check Australia, Germany and a few other western countries that are starting slowly with the censoring. It'll get worse though.

There's more than a few international computer-networks (internets). We can use alternative networks. Don't give up hope.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Some really grim paranoia around here

Its much too late to control "the" internet much less restrict access to "it", unless electricity is turned off. Wondering who is more delusional...those who desire to restrict the Internet or those who are afraid its actually going to happen...

There is no such thing as "the" internet in the sense of one monopolized entity that can be restricted or controlled.

Tell that to the Chinese ...
and us Australians.

Access to internet sites has been greatly restricted already for some of us.
And our government's plan, if they ever succeed in fully enforcing it, would also greatly reduce the speed of all internet in Australia.

The dramatic fact about all this is that no one talk about.Here in Italy, media, tv, newspaper don't talk about this.Very few people knows what's going on, very few people knows what telecom package is.
Media and TV talks only about piracy, pedopornography, and all the bad stuff about the net, in order to make the people think that Internet is evil.
The sad thing is that if plenary vote of UE will let a little window open for the HADOPI law (the french 3 strikes down "law"), Italy,UK, and many other countries will follow this madness.
People that use Internet wisely risks to be criminalized without reason, and
will become a b-citizen (no privacy, no right to a trial in a court of law,interne ttraffic under undiscriminated control) only because owns (and pay) a contract with an ISP.
Is the craziest thing I've ever seen, I hope for the better, but I think is very obvious that the goverments of many countries are trying to operate a mass censorship, and to mutilate Internet, because is not easy to put it under total control.
Sorry for my bad english

I wonder if you will be able to gather information using the Tor Network (Network savvy Chinese use it to get around the Golden Shield) from a Euro ISP using this. i suppose eventually they would just block you from connecting to any tor nodes? isn't there some other Network dog something. maybe one of you Network savvy individuals would like to enlighten us on alternatives?

Alex Jones August 4th 2008 - the 'powers-that-be' plan to turn the Internet into nothing more than a glorified cable TV system where access to anything other than mainstream sites will be highly restricted

blackouteurope - It means that the Internet will be packaged up and your ability to access and to put up content could be severely restricted.

blackouteurope - Under the proposed new rules, broadband providers will be legally able to limit the number of websites you can look at, and to tell you whether or not you are allowed to use particular services. It will be dressed up as ‘new consumer options' which people can choose from. People will be offered TV-like packages - with a limited number of options for you to access.

yeah Alex Jones is a nutter and there is no New World Order. (sarcasm)

Its funny you know because, I think, I was prob one of the biggest skeptics out there to all this NWO stuff. In fact i got so sick of it I started to look into things for myself. Now, sure enough there is alot of rubbish and disinfo out there but i am starting to see that alot of you guys are right. Im not ashamed to admit i was wrong.

We must not let them take the internet away from us. The internet is literally waking ppl up and giving ppl like myslef the tools to research things for them selfs so they can see the truth.

I dont know how we can do it but we must figure it out one way or the other.

Peace

[edit on 4-5-2009 by tempest501]

Originally posted by tempest501
Its funny you know because, I think, I was prob one of the biggest skeptics out there to all this NWO stuff. In fact i got so sick of it I started to look into things for myself. Now, sure enough there is alot of rubbish and disinfo out there but i am starting to see that alot of you guys are right. Im not ashamed to admit i was wrong.

We must not let them take the internet away from us. The internet is literally waking ppl up and giving ppl like myslef the tools to research things for them selfs so they can see the truth.

I dont know how we can do it but we must figure it out one way or the other.

Peace

[edit on 4-5-2009 by tempest501]

Well,
for what concern Europe I think is too late.Tomorrow will be the plenary debate about the telecom package, and the 6th may will be the final vote.At present the package says the 3 strikes law in unapplicable, but ISP can legally filter and discriminate applications and traffic to users.
But everything can change suddendly.Today (tomorrow maybe) France Assemble' will vote HADOPI 3 strikes law and this time will be voted on.
We hope telecom package will reject this terrifying law once for all, or probably it will be some time before they realize how dangerous is this measure.

reply to post by TheBandit795


This seems to be more an ISP push am I right?,to carve up the net into packages to $ell.(like all the vista packages) Premium will co$t you.

The internet as we know it is at risk because of proposed new EU rules going through end of April. Under the proposed new rules, broadband providers will be legally able to limit the number of websites you can look at, and to tell you whether or not you are allowed to use particular services. It will be dressed up as ‘new consumer options' which people can choose from. People will be offered TV-like packages - with a limited number of options for you to access......
*It means that the Internet will be packaged up and your ability to access and to put up content could be severely restricted.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0969be789a9f.gif[/atsimg]

I didn't see any reference to a "Filter" type restriction as the Australian government are still trying to implement.

Source:
Optus says 'yes' to internet filter plan Phillip Hudson April 23, 2009
OPTUS customers in Sydney and Newcastle will be asked to take part in the Federal Government's controversial test of internet filters. In a boost for the Government, the nation's second-largest internet service provider said yesterday it would take part in a six-week trial.

Zelong.

I must admit that my first reaction was led primarily by fear and paranoia.. But part of it may be caused by an event from a month or so ago - I could not reach thepiratebay anymore. Turned out the hosters of thepiratebay (in Sweden) had legal reasons to shut its DNS down. As a result, it disappeared from the net. Luckily it returned shortly after, but a big legal fight was necessary to keep it up IIRC.
link to wikipedia entry

I had never seen such a thing before and it scared the TCP/IP out of me.


[edit on 4-5-2009 by scraze]

Okay, whether this is true or not, an attack upon the internet is an attack upon ATS is it not?

I've been reading the swine flu threads and people have lost it there. They have become obsessed. They need to stand back and take a look at what else is going on.

Has anyone read about this today?

Agency denies internet spy plans



Doesn't surprise me one bit!

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Some really grim paranoia around here

Its much too late to control "the" internet much less restrict access to "it", unless electricity is turned off. Wondering who is more delusional...those who desire to restrict the Internet or those who are afraid its actually going to happen...

There is no such thing as "the" internet in the sense of one monopolized entity that can be restricted or controlled.

OK, and that may be the case, but what do you make of this?:

STRASBOURG, France — The United States has too much control over the Internet and needs to give it up, a European Union bureaucrat declared Monday. EU Information Society Commissioner Viviane Reding, a Luxembourgian, called for "full privatization" of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), demanding that it be removed from the supervision of the U.S. Department of Commerce when its operating agreement expires on Sept. 30.

"In the long run, it is not defendable that the government department of only one country has oversight of an Internet function which is used by hundreds of millions of people in countries all over the world," said Reding in a statement.

She purports to be calling for less, not more, government involvement in the Internet, using a free-market argument against the Commerce Department's control of ICANN.

However, read on as this points to more of a NWO agenda:

Like the 2005 plan, Yet Reding may have undermined her own free-market argument by simultaneously proposing a new international body, a "G12 for Internet Governance" that would oversee ICANN and be made up of voting representatives from around the world.

Like the 2005 plan, that would essentially be handing over Internet control not to the free market, but to the same creaky collection of international bureaucrats who control the EU and the U.N. — which might mean a lot more government involvement in day-to-day Internet operations.
.

(both sources from Reuters)

What do ya think?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Donkey_Dean

 

I dont mind google restricting crime. But if they start restricting too much, people will simply remember that google is only ONE of many Billions of websites and choose to go elsewhere. Google is not the Internet. Some like to believe so, but they are not.

What does this have to do with Google? If you believe you have unrestricted internet you are mistaken. There are restricted site for US users at this time.

I have seen this list I swear to god! I am digging and will post when I find it.

I think the same powers that allow for the un warranted wiretaps allow for the blocking of websites and seizure of assets etc.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by Donkey_Dean]