reply to post by Ian McLean
for some reason I haven't seen this thread - it's just not turning up in my "My ATS" choices - and now I see why - it hasn't gotten nearly the
attention it should
maybe if you worked the words "Swine Flu" into the title somehow...
this is so interesting to me - I don't even know where to start - so, if it seems like I'm just babbling - not only is that my usual style of
expression, but in this case - I can barely organize my thinking - there's so much too say
...and noticed that I was expressing myself with complicated phrases, big words, and tightly-packed paragraphs, rather than simply saying what I was
trying to say in a simple, straight-forward way. Maybe that's just my writing style; I often express myself that way. It's not the best thing for
communicating, to be needlessly complex. Or is it?
this is something I've been thinking about a lot recently - while I was putting stuff in to a music thread I started
about creative expression and the person who is doing the creating - you can't escape yourself - even when you're trying very hard to sound like or
be like someone other than who you are
musicians, painters, writers - they all have a way of trying to express something inside (that they themselves may or may not even really understand)
and it always just comes out "pure them"
you can work at your craft - examine it, refine it - guide it - play with it and experiment with it as much as you want - but in the end you can't
the difference between Shakespeare and Hemingway, Van Gogh and Rembrandt - you can't really separate the messenger from the message - the form
works for the person doing the creating
but it seems the person on the other end – receiving the message – is free to choose the form that’s most meaningful to them – and discard
what seems meaningless
... Sometimes, the results of our actions may be related to the origins of our actions in subtle ways that aren't 'provable'.
I love that idea - without even having to get metaphysical about it
And maybe that effect, in a 'non-linear way', makes it easier to express one's self in a complex, convoluted manner, rather than just
getting to the point simply.
I'm not sure exactly what you're thinking - do you mean that a convoluted journey towards what you're trying to say is the only way you (as in you)
can think through it all to arrive at what you're saying? You couldn’t say what you mean to say if you said it any other way?
That got me thinking to how, sometimes, the best works of art (painting and such) are those where the impact of what the artist is trying to do
isn't obvious, or even clear at all.
I’ve gotten into actual arguments over this – because much of the time I don’t think the artist knows where they’re going – they just get
there – and are just as surprised by what they’re seeing as anyone
So if we go back to the results of our actions being related to the origins of our actions - I think many times the person who is doing the expressing
would like to believe they’re in control of the message – just ego maybe
maybe it’s possible that the process that’s going on in the background at all times is always trying to get it’s message out – with or without
your permission – so, it creates a fistula (yeah – sorry about that) of sorts – with some form of artistic expression
I think that, in many ways, such works of art manifest themselves in the mind of the audience, and not so much on the canvas or even in the
mind of the artist.
if you believe in something like the collective unconscious – not so much as a psychic connection (or at least, not necessarily psychic) but in as
much as we may all share a very basic language of symbols that exists separate from a language of words – with it’s own rules - something that we
all understand without understanding how or why – or even really knowing that it’s even there – then I see that – very clearly
art does manifest meaning in the mind of it’s audience – it’s always seemed to me to be the most immediate explanation of a feeling or
experience – knowing without knowing
the most interesting part is the feeling that you do know something – but you don’t have a way to put that into words – even when words were
what you were using to express yourself – as if there are invisible subtitles under everything you say
Does that mean that creative expression has some kind of 'awareness' of subtlety, and its audience? Is the idea that everything is best be
expressed as simply as possible somehow not conducive to creativity?
novel, short story, prose, poem – I don’t know – it may not be about complex versus simple – but what language belongs to you
like I said – probably just babbling – don’t know if I got where you were going with this
but I can see this subject shooting off in about a dozen different directions – and I’d like to go off after each one