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the truth about religon

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posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by tdrowe2008
 


religion encompasses the diverstity of life, many do, yet the writers OF THE PAST were bigots, racists, sinners of all kinds who hypocratecly told people to beat there wives or kill there kids, because they like todays nutbags, are crazy, but one diamond is in the rough, technology.

What was Noahs Ark? Arc of the covenant? The baghdad batteries? Technology. And I think the story in the bible conveys the actions and workings in metaphore of a certain technology, that perhaps FLYING SAUCERS are our modern NOAHS ARK because TRAGEDY in NATURE is likely to start a sequeence of mass badness and rruin our modern comfort.




posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 





It's people like who who will see a sincere apology and jump on it. Rather than understanding you inflict hatred.

This is my point about atheists. If you arent an athiest what are you? Are you capable of forgiving?

I'm not the one who will throw you in hell.

I dont condemn other religions. I think religion is a bad word. I believe it's a one on one with the guy upstairs that matters. Not what denomination you belong to.

I find it alarming that you may instil your beliefs on a young influential mind.

I guess we will fight to protect his soul. If that's how you want to play!



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 09:47 AM
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arrr how ironic jehova witness just nocked my door had to speak for ages
THEY FORCE RELIGON ONTO YOU

and dont listen to you



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by tdrowe2008
 





I like inviting the Jehovah witness’s in and converting them. I once made one cry over my Christmas tree, since he said I worshiped it.

They dont come much but when they do I just hand them a buck and close the door.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by tdrowe2008
 


Moving back to the original post


Originally posted by tdrowe2008
in egyptian times there was a sun god called horus(light) and metophorically ever
morning would fight of set(dark) and at night set would send horus to the underground .horus was born of a virgin on dec 25 had 12 diciples died on cross for 3 days and ressurected

but i guess the devil put him there to deceive everybody.................

also there is over 30 or more of the same cases for example

dinoysis born a virgin dec 25(virgo) traveld round with 12 diciples(consellstions and months) died on cross for 3 days and ressurected


Do you have any links to back up this information?
I do like my ancient Egyptian legends, and this is a new one on me.
As far most of the legends of Horus go, it was Uhat who was in the form of a scorpion who stung him. He was resurrected but not after 3 days, and I'm not aware of any mention of 12 disciples either.


I presume the second one, is supposed to be "Dionysus" and "Dionysos" which was the Greek god of wine! The legends for his mother is usually either Semele or Persephone, who were both mortal women, but then Greek Mythology is full of the Gods enjoying mortal women. Again, I'm not aware of any stories about Dionysus being killed on a cross, but he was considered one of the 12 Olympians, which would actually put him in the 12 sect, and not the leader. So if you could provide your research on this too, that would be excellent.

edited to add: How do you know that Dec 25 was all of these God's birthdays as the modern calendar was not around at that point. Dec 21 is usually granted as the Midwinter festival in most religions as for when the nights begin to grow shorter


Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by tdrowe2008
 





I like inviting the Jehovah witness’s in and converting them. I once made one cry over my Christmas tree, since he said I worshiped it.

They dont come much but when they do I just hand them a buck and close the door.


not had a Jehovah Witness since I stood on the doorstep and argued theology with him. I've been reliably informed that they still do come down our road, but point at our house before moving on.

[edit on 24/4/09 by Daisy-Lola]



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by wonderworld
 




It's people like who who will see a sincere apology and jump on it. Rather than understanding you inflict hatred.


So are you apologizing for your lack of reading comprehension or for not reading the OP in entirity before replying? Or is it because of the OP's young age that you believe that the OP is incapable of having his or her own opinion?

Hatred? Sorry I don't think it's hatred. I think its more of a pet peave than anything. I don't like being labeled an athiestthe same way you wouldn't like being labeled as a witch or satan worshipper.




This is my point about atheists. If you arent an athiest what are you?

What does that matter?


Are you capable of forgiving?


Yes, but why are you asking? Am I supposed to be forgiving someone or seeking forgiveness for something? _javascript:icon('
')




I'm not the one who will throw you in hell.


No but if I need directions I know who to ask.




I dont condemn other religions. I think religion is a bad word. I believe it's a one on one with the guy upstairs that matters. Not what denomination you belong to.


So God is some dude that is in control wether I become successful or not?



I find it alarming that you may instil your beliefs on a young influential mind.


I find it alarming that you think that it's ok if you do it but if I post a link and share my opinion with such an 'impressionable' person it is wrong.




I guess we will fight to protect his soul. If that's how you want to play!


You are protecting his soul?!? Sorry, I don't really feel like playing but thanks.


[edit on 24-4-2009 by 12.21.12]



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by tdrowe2008
 


Did you just finish watching Zietgeist?

Try watching this one.

www.youtube.com...

Welcome to ATS, and remember. Your chances of living sane life have greatly increased now that you realize that religion is like a joke that most people don't get.


yes. .. I gave him a flag....



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 10:20 AM
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What part of religion requires slave like requirements? If you strip away most religions they boil down to the belief of something greater than just being born, eat, propagate then die. Also, many views of morality and philosophy are embedded, providing ethics within a society.

One needs to ask if religion is bad or wrong or is it just humans by nature that tend to drift down dark paths? Many times with our advance intelligence we strive for the common good, but our natural basic instinct of a hunter/gatherer continually influences our behavior.

Our behaviors that we would consider wrong were most likely part of evolution’s survival of the fittest. If I went back a million years, and I had a killer instinct, horded food/water/shelter, dominated men and women anyway I felt like doing as an alpha male, only to one day have another male kill me to take my place, might have been exactly what nature intended so that only the strongest genes are past on. To have the beliefs that existence does not end and moral and ethical values are needed for an intelligent sociality might be looked at as being slave to a religion, but I would not call it that.

I understand the idea that a person doesn’t need to be religious to have ethical and moral values, but history has shown we are truly at our worst when religion is totally absent. This also doesn’t mean that man will not corrupt religion to suit their personal desires either, but even when this happens sooner or later the basic root of religion still provides guidance like a light in the dark to get back on a correct path.

BTW to the OP,

I'm really bad with grammar and spelling too, so I suggest you use a word processor to make your point easier to understand.


[edit on 24-4-2009 by Xtrozero]



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


Yeah, you pretty much nailed it on the head. Except, religion for the most part is man made and used as a control mechanism as you described. Religion is a manipulated form of spirituality. Spirituality is what man must attain to become fit for survival, not religion.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by Xtrozero
 


Yeah, you pretty much nailed it on the head. Except, religion for the most part is man made and used as a control mechanism as you described. Religion is a manipulated form of spirituality. Spirituality is what man must attain to become fit for survival, not religion.


Any motivator can be used as a controlling agent even spirituality. I also suggest that religion is a method for man to name and describe spirituality, so I see them mostly as the same thing even though all cannot be correct, but most have the same basic core.

I find it impossible to have spirituality without it being an religion too since spirituality is the abstract ideal and religion is the action of how that spirituality affects and is applied to you and your life.




[edit on 24-4-2009 by Xtrozero]



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


Your posts need to be replicated on every on every religion bashing threads.


You are totally right on. Is every aspect of all religion good? No. Are they parts and pieces of all religions that can lift up mankind? You bet.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by tdrowe2008
ok guys im new so bare with me i just want to share my thoughts on religon

just think about this . whether u like it or not u probally beileve in god no matter how hard you try to think diffrent you have been brainwashed through school and the media to beileve in god and jesus . religon is the most powerfull form of controll ever in human history we believe as are human standard beleif that there is a all powerfull entity that lives in heaven and he gave us 10 laws that we must not do (10 commandments) if we do any of them things we go to hell 9but he loves us). most humans are scared of death so they will most probally follow the rules set by the so called creater .WE ARE SLAVES TO RELIGON AND IN MY EYES THAT IS A FACT .the goverment controlls the media the schools ,war what makes you think religon is the only thing that is untouched.

in egyptian times there was a sun god called horus(light) and metophorically ever
morning would fight of set(dark) and at night set would send horus to the underground .horus was born of a virgin on dec 25 had 12 diciples died on cross for 3 days and ressurected

but i guess the devil put him there to deceive everybody.................

also there is over 30 or more of the same cases for example

dinoysis born a virgin dec 25(virgo) traveld round with 12 diciples(consellstions and months) died on cross for 3 days and ressurected

try to tell me the devil put that many stories there just to test people faith jesus is the most recent myth
ainceint civs called the sun the sun of god the savior of mankind does that sound similar

(jesus)(horus)(mithra)(krishna) sOn of god savior of mankind seems easy to miss translate

ok around 100 ad christianity was founded they created the story of jesus (the sun) and turned him into a actuall human so now we pay are adoration to jesus instead of the sun anyway the goverment can lay back while we are controlled by a invisible god witch DOES not exisit and if it wasnt pounded into are brain everyday it would actually sound quite ridicoulous

religon pretends to be your freind and counter to evil.for example if you are religous u live in the religous world were u fully beileve in the god if a war brakes out you wont worry and wont be scared to die(cus your a idiot) thinking your goin to heaven

does anybody no why were are slaves to religon because i no why but i just cant put it into words lol sorry im only 17


The religion part in the Zeitgeist movie was full of misinformation and bullocks data, so i would advise you to do your won research and make a conclusion, i do agree to some extent with the religion part of the Zeitgeist movie though not completely. Everything else discussed in the first and second movie is true. But you are 17 you have all the time in the world to explore and investigate, so don't worry. But you need to ask yourself, do you feel like a christian, atheist, or something else? I went through the same thing you did when i was 11. Since then i have formed my own beliefs about life, death, the world and this thing we call reality. You should do the same, don't fall under influences that easily, question everything, and make your own conclusions.


Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by tdrowe2008
 







I wonder if God will file your page in a file called "B" for Bunk, for his reference.

Do you believe in an after life or have the philosophy that you will eat like a deer, shi# like a deer and die like a deer. Basically like roadkill,,lights out?

We are only slaves to religion if we want to kill, steal, etc.

[edit on 24-4-2009 by wonderworld]


A person doesn't need to fall under some type of religion for s/he to believe in after life. Its the same if you claim a person can't be spiritual unless that person is religious. You are a slave to religion if you blindly believe in what you read or heard when you were young, and believe in that in literral sense. I assume you acquired your knowledge about christianity from your parents or grandparents? You must have acquired it from somewhere .... Now if that is the case, then ask yourself, what if your parents were atheists, you would have been an atheist too, singing a different tune then the one now, so it all comes down to social conditioning, influence, and upbringing. Religion itself has nothing to do with it.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


Well I would agree that spirituality is our fundamental core. Religion has it's own interpretations and it does help describe our spiritual truths.

But disagree that religion is needed in society. It is more like a cancer to the earth than anything. Spirituality is the only tool for survival, religion is to misunderstood by many and understood by so few that when not wielded properly becomes more of a nuisance than a solution to any of our problems.

But the best advice I ever heard came from Ghandi, "Become the change you want to see in the world."

People need to stop using religion to settle their differences. Become empowered to change the world for the better and also be loving and kind. That really is the goal isn't it? Heaven describes a utopian society does it not? So heaven on earth is possible, but humanity must change for it to happen. They must stop blaming others for their shortcomings and become empowered to taking on the task of being self reliant and becoming accountable for his or her deeds.

Religion is the only thing that slows society for that same fundamental reason. If humanity develops itself too fast, it would most likely destroy itself by the ways of nuclear war, but it also must allow humanity to progress. But what it really comes down to in the end, is wether humanity decides wether or not it is up to the task of living together and willing to step up to the plate and do what it actually takes.

Through spirituality we have the ability to not only survive but also the ability to create a better world to live in. Your conscience is the only requirement.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by Xtrozero
 


Yeah, you pretty much nailed it on the head. Except, religion for the most part is man made and used as a control mechanism as you described. Religion is a manipulated form of spirituality. Spirituality is what man must attain to become fit for survival, not religion.


Any motivator can be used as a controlling agent even spirituality. I also suggest that religion is a method for man to name and describe spirituality, so I see them mostly as the same thing even though all cannot be correct, but most have the same basic core.

I find it impossible to have spirituality without it being an religion for spirituality is the abstract ideal and religion is the action of how that spirituality affects/applied to you and your life.




Sorry but spirituality has nothing to do with religion, you have something mixed up. I don't have to be a part of some religion in order to be spiritual. Spirituality and spiritual philosophy are very distinct things compared with religion.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 11:36 AM
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First off welcome to ATS.

I say, question everything...

Even the answers you get from the first questions you ask. Just because you are looking for answers doesn't mean you'll always find the truth(if there is such a thing). All the answers you find may not be.

There's a lot of BS out there. There are many partial truths. Non-truths. True Lies. Very little total honesty out there, and even then it may not be true.

The only truth is nobody REALLY knows. That's step numero uno.

You can prove that people manipulate religion. You can't prove that it's all a lie.

It's all about perspective.

Here's a thread about Truth vs. Belief:
www.abovetopsecret.com...'



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by wonderworld
Dont listen to the atheists.


Don't listen to the cultists either..


..and remember that 'spirituality' and 'organised religion' are two completely different subjects altogether.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by tdrowe2008
 


Well a deer doesnt have a soul. I now feel bad about my previous comment. I didnt know he was only 17 looking for answers. I apologize to him.

I figured he'd been around a lot trying to start a holy war.


You don't have any proof that animals don't have souls. I don't have proof to point otherwise either. But i myself, do know that we humans, and animals possess a spirit/soul. Afcourse ours has evolved on a completely different level and its a lot stronger. Has your "God" said that animals have no souls, or is it just your opinion? If animals posses emotions and sensations then they definately possess a soul, you don't need conscience in order to have a soul. Coscience is just an extension of the soul complex called the Oversoul. Animals have a weak Oversoul, and insects haven't evolved one yet. That does NOT mean they do not possess a soul.

About the "holy war" thing: If such a thing exists, it happened in the past. And it was started by people like you. Sorry to say so, but it's true.

The Crusade Wars anyone?

Oh yeah, one more word about that, jihad. I'll let you make your own conclusions based on that.


Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by tdrowe2008
 





I jumped the gun and didnt know your age and curiosity. Dont listen to the atheists.


I sense the same influence in that sentence of yours here. Why don't you let him decide for himself? Such a ridiculous line by a christian...


Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by tdrowe2008
 







Well I don’t mean to alarm any pet owners but I don’t believe in doggy heaven but he may allow a few pets in.

A deer does not have a soul. It doesn’t not have a conscience to choose good or evil. We do.

I am a Christian and also believe in Aliens, but with a different view than most.

I don’t mean to preach but here’s a one liner that comes to mind about proof.

“Blessed are those who have not seen yet believe”

I have proof both do exist.


Again, even though you have no proof that animals lack soul, you claim it to be so. But on the other hand you do believe in aliens, which is interesting. How does that corelate with you religion, I though that "God" only made one type of life on one planet and it's us? According to christianity. But nevermind, i suspect what you mean when you say you believe in them but in a different sense, but i don't to play guessing games. And what proof is that you have that both do exist? Just curious ...



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by WickettheRabbit
 


Yes I agree, however odd this may sound. I have known atheists to become believer on their death bed. They get scared.

So I wonder if there are different levels of Heaven? A saint level, a lukewarm level, a confused agnotic level, and a believe at the last minute level.

Since I consider myself a semi-science wizz, especially in human anatomy I know that the heart and mind are only organs.

They are not capable of love, hate or any emotion. All these feeling come from 2 top dudes and are located in the soul. Know what I mean?

Also when a baby takes it's first breath their is something holy about it. The same with dying and taking the last breath.

Many have died and came back to life with identical stories of lights at the end of the tunnel. Some wont make it in to the light.


7 years ago i was diagnozed with what you americans if im not mistaken call penicitus? Nevermind, i had to undergo a 4 hour operation because on eof teh intestines blew up and there was soem rick involved that my other organs might be damaged. Because of that the operation lasted 5 and a half hours and in th emiddle of teh operation my heart just stopped functioning. I was clinically dead for 2 minutes. It was at that time that i had my first OBE (Out of Body Experience). It was enough proof for me that the souls exists. But i didn't see no light or tunnel vision tthing liek many other claim to have seen in this state but i did see an array of various colors blending in to one another and the whole thing seemed like a caleidoscope sort of thing. the colorrs were so vibrant like they were alive, i can't even put it into words what i actually saw.

My point being, i got awake in a hospital bed an hour later and the doctors saying "you will be fine, we got you back" and things like that. Many people, including some that are atheists, after an experience liek that might become believers and adopt a religion of some sort. But it depends how you translate your experience in your own logic inside your mind. I didn't think it was something special or something like a divine interventionm from God etc. And i easily could have. But i spent 2 months in that hsopital bed thinking about that day and what actually happened. I started believing in the soul, because i previously didn't, but i didn't start to believe in God, not the entity as described in the bible at least. I have my own definitions of what "God" might be. My point was that something liek you said, a near death experience or death bed situation does not convert a person, not everybody at least, the ones that do it, do it out of fear, not out of true belief.

Something i remembered about the lights at the end of the tunnel. You are not supposed to go there. Many have been decevied and went there and have had their souls taken by some forces, according to contactee reports given by some extarterrestrials. There is not much i can explain here i need to start anothe thread on this but i just wanted to mention few things on that one.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by wonderworld
 



Wonderworld:

I like your little animation things and all, but I'm sorry. I personally disagree on a few things:

First the deer thing... How can you tell us that something like a deer doesn't have a soul? So us humans are the only ones worthy of having a soul? That's a little egotistical to think like that, don't you think?

And then you said: "We are only slaves to religion if we want to kill, steal, etc."

The religious ones are the ones who put their entire faith (yes - the F word) - their entire life on a ""God" that NEVER shows his face. These people believe a friggin BOOK. ONE BOOK. This one book dictates lives...
Now, I agree with some of the ten commandments - like the no killing, no stealing, etc, but the rest is bunk and you all know it. And the part that kills me is how people interpret the bible and the laws to fit their beliefs.
How can you do that when this bible and religion and this God is SUPPOSED to be perfect? I hope I delivered that last one correctly...

AND... My favorite... How many religions are there??? How many say that if you don't believe in their's you will burn forever? What makes everyone think theirs is correct? What makes you think your's is correct??

How many wars have been started over religion? How many have been killed for believing in the cosmos - BY Christians and Catholics???

Oh, and then the Bi-polar God - the one who slaughters millions and millions in the Old Testament for utter BS, and the God in the New Testament who doesn't hurt a fly...

But yeah, just remember people: It's all about ONE book. If anything, that book should be your god, because there is more proof of that book's existence than there is of this phantom God who just sits up there and watches us all destroy eachother - OVER HIS NAME. Great entity.

Are you getting it yet, or are some of you going to start quoting the bible?


I am sorry to be a jerk about this, but damn it. This is just ridiculous...
It is possible to live and have laws, be spiritual and productive as humans without religion, but some of you hide behind it because you are perhaps scared (IMO) to admit that there IS no "God('s will).
It's OUR WILL - Everything is on us. It is our choice to do the right thing. GOD doesn't pull the strings up there. When something good or bad happens, people say it's God's will.
It's Karma - a simple equilibrium of positive and negative.

And before I end this, check it out.
When you put everything you are and everything you know on a "higher power" with the use of faith, doesn't that relinquish your own power???
It sounds like a mind-trip to me. People say their lives change and stuff...
Here's my theory about that:
In karate, when you break that board, how are you breaking it? It only breaks when you have faith that you CAN break it. You have to make yourself believe that it will break, or it won't break.
Doesn't the same thing apply for religion and what we're talking about here? If you make yourself believe, then it will be true (IN YOUR MIND).
That's genuine???
That analogy was crummy. I know what I want to say, but I don't know how to assimilate it.
Basically I'm saying it's all just a mind trip. And it's a little cocoon for people to hide in which keeps them blinded to the true meaning of life (whatever that is).

We shouldn't have to use something called faith to figure this all out. I don't like that word. AT ALL. The meaning of it is shady in the first place, no???

Let say you are buying something at a jewelry store or something (I say jewerly store because their stuff is behind glass). You give the jeweler $5,000USD for that huge gold necklace. The jewelery takes the money and says he will be back with the necklace. Hours pass by and he hasn't returned with it (not likely in the real world, but just listen). You ask the other jeweler why the man hasn't returned, and he says "he will, just have faith".
You all are still waiting for that jeweler... Sound familiar????
I'm done.
Peace.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by 12.21.12
 





It's people like who who will see a sincere apology and jump on it. Rather than understanding you inflict hatred.

This is my point about atheists. If you arent an athiest what are you? Are you capable of forgiving?

I'm not the one who will throw you in hell.

I dont condemn other religions. I think religion is a bad word. I believe it's a one on one with the guy upstairs that matters. Not what denomination you belong to.

I find it alarming that you may instil your beliefs on a young influential mind.

I guess we will fight to protect his soul. If that's how you want to play!


In what way did he inflict hatred? I am not an atheist and i do not require a label so you can understand me or my views better. Im not 100% atheist though i have mainly atheistic views on religion in general. But im quite spiritual, and i do believe in a lot o fthings, atheists don't (I think, just assuming). And yes, i am capable of forgiving and asking for forgiveness, I don't need religion to teach me that (or anyone else for that matter). If you think that religion made you a better person, then what kind of person would you have been without it? Worse? If the answer is yes, then i have a question for you: Are you capable of comparison with other people? If so then compare yourself without all that you learned in religion and myself living an entire life without religion. Whats the result? More importantly, whats the point? Did i really need/ed it? Do YOU really need it?


Originally posted by Daisy-Lola
reply to post by tdrowe2008
 


Moving back to the original post


Originally posted by tdrowe2008
in egyptian times there was a sun god called horus(light) and metophorically ever
morning would fight of set(dark) and at night set would send horus to the underground .horus was born of a virgin on dec 25 had 12 diciples died on cross for 3 days and ressurected

but i guess the devil put him there to deceive everybody.................

also there is over 30 or more of the same cases for example

dinoysis born a virgin dec 25(virgo) traveld round with 12 diciples(consellstions and months) died on cross for 3 days and ressurected


Do you have any links to back up this information?
I do like my ancient Egyptian legends, and this is a new one on me.
As far most of the legends of Horus go, it was Uhat who was in the form of a scorpion who stung him. He was resurrected but not after 3 days, and I'm not aware of any mention of 12 disciples either.


I presume the second one, is supposed to be "Dionysus" and "Dionysos" which was the Greek god of wine! The legends for his mother is usually either Semele or Persephone, who were both mortal women, but then Greek Mythology is full of the Gods enjoying mortal women. Again, I'm not aware of any stories about Dionysus being killed on a cross, but he was considered one of the 12 Olympians, which would actually put him in the 12 sect, and not the leader. So if you could provide your research on this too, that would be excellent.

edited to add: How do you know that Dec 25 was all of these God's birthdays as the modern calendar was not around at that point. Dec 21 is usually granted as the Midwinter festival in most religions as for when the nights begin to grow shorter


[edit on 24/4/09 by Daisy-Lola]


Dionysus wasn't killed on a cross, he was one of the 12 olympic Gods though, that's true. Not sure if he was born on 25 Dec., i think thats a lie. But his mother WAS actually Semele, and she was mortal and a virgin too. I'm not so sure about the other people, and i don't know much of Egyptian mythology so i won't speak on that.



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