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Is Baptism actually required for salvation?

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posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 02:01 AM
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Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

This man got saved and all it took was one simple repentance(only nailed on a cross, but that is irrelevant)

Luke 23
39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!" 40But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong." 42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[f]" 43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

Definition of repent:
www.google.com...=en&q=definition+of+repent&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=definition+of+repent&fp=Q9hKAq0-8-0

Most Christian denominations believe baptism is a prerequisite for salvation but in this case, it's different.

And I think repentance makes more sense even if applied for non-religious purposes. Just think the state of our planet and our future. We are .ed for destruction, unless we repent or turn away from our old selfish, greedy, and destructive lifestyles. The Earth can't sustain our wastefulness anymore and life is become more difficult as the years go by despite all technological advances.

[edit on 24-4-2009 by ahnggk]




posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 02:18 AM
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Most evangelical churches believe in a "baptism of the spirit", which can be a simple, personal thing between a man/woman and their God. It's just repentance and acceptance of Christ, really.

Catholics believe that the actual rite of Baptism needs to take place.

It varies between denominations.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 03:00 AM
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i think this is all retarded no offense to the people who believe it... hey believe in whatever you want. but in all honesty i know a lot of really good people and most aren't baptise and to think they will all burn in "hell" ? because there parents or guardians didnt baptise them as a child is rediculous and idiotic in my opinion.

"you can get baptise as an adult" yeah i know we will come to that but then we reach a point where we face the question, what if they were not raised to believe in that religion or any religion? so he burns hell?


don't get me started with hell, god loves us all on levels we will never be able to comprehend but allows a hell to exist just in case we are bad? eh i would love to read a book about "so called truth" that made sense, didnt contradict itself or leave out huge amounts of information... anyone have any in mind?



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 03:09 AM
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Never baptised here, thank goodness. Mother wasn't sure and thought it best to let us decide for ourselves.

Every one of us went in a different direction because we were given the freedom to do so.

I will always honour my mother for this.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 04:12 AM
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Ah, don't let all this religious mumbo jumbo bother ya'll, it's just a load of contrived b.s. to turn ya'll into a bunch of fearful obedient sheople. There is not a single shred of evidence to support any of it. And besides, who would want to go to heaven anyhow, that place sure sounds like some kind of horrible realm run by some kind of omnipotent megalomaniac that will have you on your knees kissing butt forever and ever. If god exists, I'd have to say he/she is one weird sicko for creating a realm where so much pain and suffering is allow, and then stands by to merely watch while so many suffer within his/her realm. Any god that it responsible for creating and allowing such horror needs to be judged him or herself! Heck, even I could be a better god than what the religious (a.k.a. superstitious) ones have made up in their .s. Their god is a retard.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 05:00 AM
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Heaven itself moves and interacts with man in baptism, that's why it's called a sacrament. If one is able he or she should get baptized because it is not just a symbol. Through baptism we, quite literally, share in the death and resurrection of Christ and become a part of His earthly body the Church.

Those who are able should get baptized and it's not wrong to think of it as a personal requirement but it's not good to think of salvation as something that's rewarded to someone because they have met the requirements or checked the boxes, so to speak. And we definitely don't want to speak evil and say someone is doomed to hell because they haven't gone through the ritual of baptism. It is good to judge ourselves harshly but leave the judging of others to God alone.

Understandably, some may not be able for baptism. As the thief was nailed to the cross, some have made deathbed conversions to Christ and some are crippled...etc. Whatever the reason, we must trust that baptism is not something WE do but God does within us even though we are unable.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 05:15 AM
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well Jesus set a best example..
If Jesus himself was baptised , u must understand how important baptism must be..



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 05:25 AM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 


There is such a simple answer to the question....

NO!

The very concept of 'salvation' leaves a dirty taste in my mouth...it shows the continued biases, and ignorance promulgated by the small-minded who ignore the thousands of years of Human existence PRIOR to the rise of (edit here) ONE OF the latest cults, some 2,000 or so years ago....using FEAR as a controlling tactic. *adding*....not to single out Christianity, there is also that OTHER cult, known as Islam...post-dates Christianity.

THEN, the various splinter sects/cults that resulted...too many to count.

Every Judeo/Christian/Muslim sect and or creed has used FEAR as the method of control.

Maybe the Egyptians did too...and the Mayans??

And...well, you name it...it's prevalent in most Human history....as a means of control.

Obey!!!! Or else!!!!!

[edit on 4/24/0909 by weedwhacker]



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 05:29 AM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 
\
Hi ahnggk/

Is Baptism required?
It was the Lord Jesus who instituted Baptism. "He who believes and is baptised will be saved" (Mark 16:16).
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit..." (Matthew 28:19)

"Truly. truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (John 3:5)

Baptism does not necessarily get us into Heaven automatically.

When one is immersed into the water(. and all)one is "buried with Jesus into His death" /Romans 6:4) and is renewed into a new life.

"For as many of you as have been baptised in Christ, have put on Christ" (Galatians 3:26-27)the new clothes that are worn at the baptism.
"Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation, the old has passed away, behold the new has come" /2 Corinth 5:17
So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls (Acts 2:38,41)
baptize all nations (Matt. 28:19)
In the Old Testament, circumcision was a form of Baptism.
And in the New Testament, a believer enters into a new covenant with God (Col. 2:11-12)which is the baptism of water.

It is said that the skull of Adam lay where Christ was Crucified.
Adam was baptized through the Blood of Christ, which flowed from Him and down onto Adam's skull and released the 'original sin' which was,death (eternally away from God)and physical death.

As for the quote you gave on the Thief on the Cross, the thief on the cross was under the Old Covenant and therefore did not have a requirement of baptism...
St John the Baptist was also using a form of babtism/forgiveness of sins,of which the Jews followed.

helen



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 05:43 AM
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matt 28:[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
[20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

yes, baptism is a direct commandment from jesus.

mark 16:[16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

early apostles understood that getting baptized was required they they practiced that.

1 cor 12:[13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

so was the thief "saved"? the passage of the thief is often used to justify not getting baptized based on jesus statement of seeing him in paradise. the church teaches that when we die, we go to heaven of hell based on the things we did in our life. the bible does not support this. first, there is a resurrection.

acts 24:[15] And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

this resurrection encompasses the righteous and the unrighteous. rev 20- 22 denotes a time of healing that would span a thousand years. this "judgement day" is a period when people will be able to make up their minds free from the influence of satan (he is abyssed during that time)

so was the thief "saved"? well technically no. the thief did not have time to display true repentance for his sins, nor did he have the time to live in way that god would approve. christ too did not say he was saved. he said he would see him again in paradise. during the thousand year reign of christ, this thief will have the opportunity to display his repentance.

rev 20:[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

so the real question is, why would one NOT want to get baptized? is it possible that there is a desire to "do what you want,when you want" while justifying to yourselves that it is ok, because thats "just how god works"

is it possible that people think that they can mock god's mercy and that he would put up with it?

being baptized is giving a public display in your faith in jesus' sacrifice. it also displays your dedication toward god. if you are dedicated to god, why wouldnt you get baptized?



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
The very concept of 'salvation' leaves a dirty taste in my mouth...it shows the continued biases, and ignorance promulgated by the small-minded who ignore the thousands of years of Human existence PRIOR to the rise of (edit here) ONE OF the latest cults, some 2,000 or so years ago....using FEAR as a controlling tactic.


so what you are saying is that humans are perfect the way they are?



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by Roark
Catholics believe that the actual rite of Baptism needs to take place.

Catholics believe in a few different kinds of baptism.

The traditional baptism in water.
Baptism by desire.
Baptism by blood.

The baptism by water is done with running water. The river jordan was running and therefore the water must be running during a Catholic baptism. Poured over the . for example.

Baptism by desire is when a person wishes to be baptised but cant for some reason. Like if he's in prison or in a desert or whatever ...

Baptism by blood. A martyrs death or being killed for belief in God.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 06:17 AM
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Originally posted by monkcaw
Heaven itself moves and interacts with man in baptism, that's why it's called a sacrament. If one is able he or she should get baptized because it is not just a symbol. Through baptism we, quite literally, share in the death and resurrection of Christ and become a part of His earthly body the Church.

Prove it. I've $100 that says you can't. And, referring me to someone else that said or wrote the same is no proof. How do ya'll come up with this stuff anyhow, hum? Heaven, hell, god, baptized, sacraments, resurrections, dogma ... blah! How do you know all this ain't a boatload of lies and bull, hum?

People, don't let these make-believers scare you with their threats of eternal damnation of hell unless you join their fraternity of contrived beliefs. And besides, which one of these 4500 or so conflicting religions is the (possibly) correct one? At best, only one can be correct, at most, while the rest are blatant liars. Liar liars, pants on fire, ha.

We should sue all these religions for false advertising claims. Prove to me that there are negative consequences for not playing make-believe with ya'll. And, what if I subscribe to your made up beliefs, there are other religions that state I'm still destined for hell for not joining their gang of superstitious beliefs. Blah, religion sucks and blows.
There should be a law against threatening people with eternal damnation for not joining these gangs and clans of intimidation. I mean, imagine if some corporation came out and claimed that unless you buy their product you're gonna go to hell. BARF!

[edit on 24-4-2009 by Divinorumus]



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 06:29 AM
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Originally posted by helen670the thief on the cross was under the Old Covenant and therefore did not have a requirement of baptism...


What makes him under the Old Covenant?

Anyway, thanks for all those who gave their opinion. I know that Jesus gave the command to be baptized and seems to be an important thing to Christians.

I am baptized myself, birth, youth, Holy Spirit.

The reason I asked because I can see nowadays, it isn't making a big difference in people's lives. It's become more of a ritual. People are still the same, maybe the baptized no longer curse afterwards but they are still very well into this world. They still strive for a place in this world which is not the teaching of Christ.

Christ didn't come here to teach us to kiss the #@! of the rich but to help and save the lost, the poor, the homeless etc.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by ahnggk

And I think repentance makes more sense even if applied for non-religious purposes.


baptism is a public display of that repentance

acts 2:[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 07:14 AM
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Boy do I feel sorry for you who posted this thread. The Atheist, Agnostic, Catholic, and feelgooders all chimed in and I am wondering if you are more confused now than ever. The Bible spells out the answer and it does not contradict itself. I will be as brief as possible.
1. No infant baptism anywhere in either Testament. That was easy!
2. Water in the OT is est. as a cleansing agent, thus to a Jew baptism was an issue of purification - Jn 3:22-25 getting in the water was a declaration of guilt Matt 3:1-7
3. To the Christian in the "Church Age" water baptism pictures a death, burial and resurrection. Dead in trespasses and sins, (standing in water) buried in the likeness of his death (under the water) raised in newness of life (raised out of the water).
4. Paul made a difference between water baptism and the gospel he preached. I Cor 1:17
- the gospel he preached is in I Cor 15:1-4
- water baptism is only a picture of the real thing
- so, you believe the gospel first, by accepting Jesus Christ as your
Saviour
- then and only then as a believer do you submit to water baptism to
picture what has happened spiritually
- It is a outward public declaration that you have been saved, and not a
sacrament to get saved.
So the answer is no, you do not have to be baptized to be saved, but it is the first act of obedience for them that are saved!
Sorry for the longevity of this post, hope this helps.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 08:36 AM
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Can a person baptize ones self? Can a person use a garden hose for baptism. Is there evidence of pagan baptism pre dating Christianity?

Is being "washed in the blood" the same as a baptism?

Is it the actual ritual of baptism that assures salvation, or the spirit of the baptizee during the ritual?



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by Lordsside
1. No infant baptism anywhere in either Testament. That was easy!

Scripture states that entire families were baptised.

Entire families ... grandma, grandpa, father, mother, aunts, uncles, cousins, children, babies. These make up families.

I understand that some fundamentalist christians want to exclude those scripture statements that refer to ENTIRE FAMILIES .. but their interpretation is myopic.


Infant Baptism


Peter explained what happens at baptism when he said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38). But he did not restrict this teaching to adults. He added, "For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him" (2:39). We also read: "Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name" (Acts 22:16). These commands are universal, not restricted to adults.

More detail is given in Luke’s account of this event, which reads: "Now they were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them; and when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them to him, saying, ‘Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God’" (Luke 18:15–16).



But, one might ask, does the Bible ever say that infants or young children can be baptized? The indications are clear. In the New Testament we read that Lydia was converted by Paul’s preaching and that "She was baptized, with her household" (Acts 16:15). The Philippian jailer whom Paul and Silas had converted to the faith was baptized that night along with his household. We are told that "the same hour of the night . . . he was baptized, with all his family" (Acts 16:33). And in his greetings to the Corinthians, Paul recalled that, "I did baptize also the household of Stephanas" (1 Cor. 1:16).

In all these cases, whole households or families were baptized. This means more than just the spouse; the children too were included. If the text of Acts referred simply to the Philippian jailer and his wife, then we would read that "he and his wife were baptized," but we do not. Thus his children must have been baptized as well. The same applies to the other cases of household baptism in Scripture.


Early Church Teachings on Baptism


Irenaeus - He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God: infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age" (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).

Hippolytus - "Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them" (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D. 215]).

Origen - "The Church received from the apostles the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. The apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of the divine sacraments, knew there are in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit" (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 248]).



[edit on 4/24/2009 by FlyersFan]



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by Divinorumus
Prove it. I've $100 that says you can't.

baptism gives grace
Born again in baptism
Read and learn.


And, referring me to someone else that said or wrote the same is no proof.

You are on the internet and you demand proof, but say that someone can't use facts and proof that are written down to prove the truth of what they said. So you want them to magically appear in front of you and prove it? :shk:


How do ya'll come up with this stuff anyhow, hum?

People smarter then you and me, and with their spiritual eyes wide open, understand great truths .. obviously better than you do and I do.



posted on Apr, 24 2009 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by ahnggk
Is baptism necessary for salvation?

article here You may find this article interesting. While I don't follow along with the whole thing, it does offer some insights into answers for your question.



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