Prison life is too easy!

Okay, focus on the system as a whole. Again, my experience is limited to the NY system and for about a year I had one in Federal custody.

The prison system is about one thing.....MONEY!

Here in NY and in many states prison complexes are built in rural areas where there is literally no other industry but farming! Granted, building them far away is part of the isolation package but there is so much more to that. As we all know it is population that gives areas representation in state and federal government. Prison population is counted as local population hence giving these rural underpopulated areas far higher numbers, more government funding and a far higher representation in govt! If you do the research you will find those most vocal in their opposition to the repeal of the archaic Rockefeller laws were those legislators from these regions. Of course that makes perfect sense doesn't it?

The industry in the prisons are making products at less than slave wages and selling the same products at regular prices. Hmm, why isn't the manufacturing arena screaming about this, because who cares about felons. I have seen truck after truck loading and unloading at Auburn Correctional near Syracuse and it was like watching traffic at a huge factory. This goes on all over the nation and it is all about money!

Here we are in 2009 warehousing non violent felons and making billions off the suffering of these people and their families. How shameful the US is by far the most barbaric of all nations when it comes to corrections. The only other nations that imprison their people and subject them to these conditions are the same nations we are fighting in the fake war on terror.

Do a little digging, google these things and try to take the vengeance and hatred for criminals out of the picture and look at the facts.

One last comment about the guards and the way prisoners are treated. Imagine how you would feel if your wife or husband were in prison and told you this: When we got off the bus here and in the usual line when arriving at a new facility the guards get their point across very clearly. (This has not only been told to me by family but also by every man I know that has been to Clinton, and sadly that is quite a few) The guards tell the men, we could care less if you kill each other, that is not our concern. Know this, if you put any of our men in danger, WE WILL KILL YOU, and the ME is related to just about everyone that works here, we are all family up here and he will most certainly say that it was natural causes, check the history if you don't believe us! How in the hell can you say that this is not part of what you choose do discuss.

Back in the 80's the regular routine was for the guards to pick one man at random and beat them down in front of the entire busload of men, to get their point across. They ended up getting so much heat they were forced to stop this practice. A real discussion of prison life is not complete without including this.

IN the 6 years I have been dealing with this my loved one has witnessed at least 10 deaths one young man rigged his cell and set himself on fire only 3 cells away. He said the smell was so bad that the entire block could be heard vomiting. On more than 30 calls we have had to hang up due to fights and stabbings in the yard. It is daily fare in prison to see men cut open, and laying there waiting for medical care, the CO's refuse to carry an injured inmate and force other inmates to do this. Prison is hell and as the poster above stated so well.....the punishment is supposed to be the isolation and restriction of freedoms, not to go there to be punished by guards and the system. You never know who is sitting in a restaurant or on a bus with you filled with hatred and rage from a recent incarceration. Remember, when you seek negative consequences for another, you are bringing that same energy to yourself!!!!!

Sir, I would just like you to know, at 12, my father was TAKEN away from us. Our home was raided and 5 antique bullets were used in trial against him. And for EX-CONS, possesing any kind of fire arm, or ammunition, is an automatic felony. 3 years a bullet, 15 years. He was 45? when he went in there. Before he went in, he owned the most successful air conditioning business in the general area, and also had hepatitus-c. Jail life is not too easy for anyone. And IF you believe it is, let me take you away from your family, no matter what crime you did, because that happens. LEt me take you from them for 15 years, I just hope your family treats you better in there than i treated my father.

Just throwing that out there

Originally posted by redhead57

For those of you who think they deserve it...my fondest wish is that your son, husband or nephew is locked up and you can then really see what they go through. Or better yet, I would love to see you in prison and then tell me how easy they have it.

Better yet, actually have experience "working" there or being locked up. And then you realize that most people really don't have the foggiest idea what truly happens in the prison.

It appears every body here think "They know it all" just by watching TV or hearing 2nd hand information from friends\family that were incarcerated.

Your Talk about inmates lacking funds, and food poisonings. I won't deny, but the rest of your post screams ignorance from lack of experience.

The true statements I will address, the rest I ignored.

Yes, There is a bunch of smelly, under nourished inmates. Some choose to be that way. And so, offend both inmates and the "police". For some its a survival mechanism. For others, its simply they don't care.

The state\government closes all of the mental institutions, then Demands them to be rehabilitated within society. And those type of people can not be rehabilitated while they live on the street. So to prison they go. Where they are both miss treated by inmates and under educated guards.

And by mistreatment, I mean taunts, neglect, and the occasional lock-in- the sock or shanking. As to forcing them "hygiene" on them, forget it. The ACLU would be on them for "cruel and unusual punishment". So inmates take upon themselves to "Educate" stinky inmates by putting soap into socks, and beating the living daylights out of them. Then threatening them "if they tell" with bodily harm. (In the olden days, The CO"s would spray them with fire hoses. Which was stopped in about the mid 1980's.)

As to food poisonings, I will simply state Big corporations feed inmates, and accidents "happen". The rest I prefer not to talk about.

Also the inmates now have many ways to "communicate" with family. Besides the ever present Visitations usually between 8 to 4, 7 days a week. They also can write mail, send e-mails, and Call during Rec time. They also can communicate via web cam. All paid for by your tax dollars, inmate funds, or inmate funds provided by family. So the level of communication could be compared to a strict summer camp. The poor kids at most get to communicate once a week, the rich kids every day a week when the sun is shining.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


You have no idea, how true this is.

Republicans love prisons, it makes them money for them by cheap labor and Big Corporations.

Democrats love Prisons, It makes them money for them by education services, lawsuits, and rehabilitation.

As to the roman Republic compared to the American republic. I think you need to start a new thread on this, And I would look forward to reading the results.

The Rich "inmates" live like kings, the poor inmates on the other hand. Are neglected and abused, truly like the outside world. The Rich inmates would be "Roman citizens", the rest are the slave class.

I don't know what prisons you are talking about with access to the web, but the NYS system does not have that. Global Tel charges families between $3 and $5 for a 30 minute call depending on the distance. An inmate can only call home if the family can afford the calls.

Again, my experience is only with NY. If an inmate in the NY system has no outside source of income then they have to hustle to get hygiene supplies.

Regardless of your opinion, the people I know that are incarcerated are close family members that have no reason to lie to me. In fact it has only been over the past 3 years that I have been able to get either of them to open up.

After one of them was beaten in the shu, missed a court date mysteriously, and after a call to the prison on a Friday where I was assured they were there and then skirted away to a prison far away (they lied to me as no transports are started on Fridays), I know what I am talking about. When the state did come to investigate the beating it was nearly 3 weeks after the incident and the investigator from the Inspector General's office asked him, do you have pictures of the injuries. Sure he did, he has a polaroid camera right in his property.



[edit on 4/26/2009 by redhead57]

Originally posted by they see ALL
Oh yes, prison is, as ThirdJohnAdams termed it, the ultimate form of timeout, and, yes, this is a great form of punishment. I believe, however, that there are things in prison that make this time fun. It's not going to be as fun as the outside world, but it's as fun as prison life can get. When parents puts their kids in timeout, they don't get television, so why should prisoners? The logic is incredibly flawed!

Children's brains are so infantile (as well as most grown ups) that television amounts to some sort of enjoyment. Don't get me started on television. (I don't watch TV. I'll admit to watching the occasional movie though). I don't know, I guess in my opinion/my world television is worthless that I couldn't give two craps about if they get TV or not... so if they want to watch tv, I don't feel uncomfortable giving them one of the few they decisions they actually do get to make to watch it or not.

I might agree to some reading, but no television. Television isn't fun (well for the most part), but it sure will make the time easier and will make the time seem to pass by quickly. Anything that might pass the time quickly is wrong. Prisoners should focus on what they did, not what's on television.

You said it, television isn't fun. Also, they don't have the option to watch tv for 24 hours a day. I don't know about you but I am most reflective/active in my own head at 2 times of the day. As I am laying in bed, before I fall asleep... and when I just wake up. If you have to fall asleep and wake up for 10 years straight thinking about the guy you beat up, I would say that is plenty of time for reflection.

I'm not saying we should make them psychotic, but I'm just shocked at all the fun stuff they have. Prison is supposed to be the worst form of punishment in a country, so why are they seeming to have fun. Again, I'm not saying let's treat them horribly or that they are having the best times ever.

I can't really offer a rebuttal to this statement because I can tell from your writing that we have different opinions of fun. Being locked in a cage, let out to play a couple hours a day, is not fun even if you do get to go play fetch for 3 hours. You get me? That is the way I see it. It's like, if someone said you can play your favorite game in the whole wide world every day for the rest of your life.... BUT, you have to eat trash food, sleep on a crap mattress, live in a cage, crap with people watching, have the constant possibility of being raped in your butthole or stabbed, have to be strip searched on a regular basis... would you like to have fun and play your game? No.. heck no... I would like to know on what planet is that considered fun... Did you not consider this , or do you think the situation and environment in which you are watching TV / playing a game is irrelevant to your comfort level?

Yeah the downtime is the worst part, but they have opportunities to have fun or, at least, to make the time pass quickly.

It sounds like you are advocating that they have no form of release for their stress whatsoever and should have zero fun. If you spend every single day absolutely miserable for 10 years, I would love to see that psych evaluation at the end of 10 years....

So what's the difference between your lollipops and ice cream and my televisions and CD players? I would give them the former out of the two groups!

You took what I was saying out of context, the only reason I mentioned lolipops and ice cream was to make sure no one thought I was advocating a get-away retreat for criminals. I guess for the fun of it though...

Lolipops and ice cream - short, momentary release of endorphins and a childs treat

TV and CD players - tv, useless form of entertainment by getting involved and interested in something that has no meaning or value to you other then what you tell yourself ... but a cd player, I completely and totally would advocate that every prisoner gets one. Music is one of the best forms of therapy on the planet.

So that's to answer your question.

Get ready to make a mess. They do have freewill! Sure, it's not like the freewill of the outside world, but they have the freedom to make weapons, make coffee/liquor, attack each other, rape each other, attempt breakouts, and etc. Of course, they aren't allowed to do these things, but they have the opportunity to do them. If the animals in zoos had this much freedom, they would love the place!

Whew, I almost blew chunks but then I made it to the third sentence and you conceded. I can leave my room right now if I'd like. Prisoners are told when and for how long they may leave their "room." I can go make a sandwich right now if I'd like. Prisoners are forced to eat what any sane human being would consider trash, and when to eat it. I can go get in my car and go to watch a baseball game. A prisoner can't even leave their cell without permission, let alone get access to a car. I could go on... and on... and on...

They do not have FREE will. They are extremely limited in the decisions they can actually make. They have the ability to make those decisions you listed, yes. But that is not free will. Free will is what got them there in the first place by deciding to commit the crime... free will is what you lose when you get there.

When I use the term free will, I am referring to this:

Free Will
1 : voluntary choice or decision
2 : freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention
source

Free will is doing WHATEVER you want, WHENEVER you want. That does not exist in prison, sorry. I guarantee if you ask a prisoner if you could do whatever in the world you want right now, their answer would not be "go to the recreation room and watch The Simpsons."

-------------------------------

After reading your responses, I'd say the main hang ups between you and I are definitions of fun and free will, and I'm also apparently placing a higher price tag on LIFE, or a percentage of LIFE. Losing 10 years (or however long) of your existence IS the worst punishment you could receive, period.

reply to post by msnevil

You have no idea, how true this is.

Trust me when I say I know how true this is!

Republicans love prisons, it makes them money for them by cheap labor and Big Corporations.

Prison labor is so insanely lucrative because it can only be used to create products and services to sell to the government. It is against the law to retail to the public anything made with prison labor, which means only the government can purchase the products and output and they buy them at extremely inflated prices. The profit margins for Corporations like Unicore Industries are obscene; the tightly held stock pays an incredible dividend.

Democrats love Prisons, It makes them money for them by education services, lawsuits, and rehabilitation.

I had a 7th Grade education when I went to Prison at the ripe old age of 34. When the Education Department at the Prison Camp discovered I had no High School Diploma they held me in camp one day instead of bussing me out to work and told me I had to start attending classes to take my GED. The Prison Camp was directly paid 2,400.00 in Grant Money for every GED an inmate achieved while incarcerated there. The same 2,400.00 is available to any American Citizen who passes their GED once reaching Adulthood. I was told that 10% of that 2,400.00 would be deposited in my Commissary Account upon passing it.

I was not thrilled about that, I looked forward to my fresh air and exercise out on the Golf Course and the social relationships I had established there and did not want to have to take any preparatory classes.

Once again it was all about the negotiation. After a heated discussion the Warden herself agreed that if I could pass the pre-evaluation GED Test that I could just take the GED and skip the classes. It was a two day test, which they assured me no one could pass without taking the preparatory classes. Gee thanks for assuming I am stupid just because I never went to High School and ended up in Prison!

It took two weeks to get the results on the pre-evaluation GED Test back from the State of Florida which thankfully they let me go back to work while waiting for. They finally called me to the Education Department and I was on pins and needles walking over there but to my relief found the Teacher and assistants assembled out in front of the building who when they spied me 50 feet away all started doing their best Wayne’s World impersonation of “We’re not worthy, we’re not worthy”. I said I guess that means I passed? The teacher said “Am I allowed to speak directly to genius?”

I knew there couldn’t have been anything to High School! I never felt bad the Government wouldn’t let me attend.

I passed the 3 day GED Test the next time they held it two weeks later in the top 2% of the entire State of Florida.

This is your brain…this is your brain on drugs…this is your brain on drugs while reading a good book!

As to the roman Republic compared to the American republic. I think you need to start a new thread on this, And I would look forward to reading the results.

I have been thinking of it, but it really is just the Roman Republic… a rose by any other name is still a rose my friend, and contractually every last Treaty from the 8th century on I have read clearly displays a continuation of the Roman Empire, and every Treaty from the Treaty of Paris to the Treaty of Ghent clearly illustrates we were made not just a part of it, but an integral and key part of the Roman Empire, which we are bound to and with through contract.

The Rich "inmates" live like kings, the poor inmates on the other hand. Are neglected and abused, truly like the outside world. The Rich inmates would be "Roman citizens", the rest are the slave class.

This is pretty much the size of it, but citizenship in the Roman Empire does not require wealth, many Roman Citizens were poor apartment dwellers, many of whom existed on the Welfare System of the day better known as Bread and Circuses. The Bread and Circuses got to be just too costly for the state to maintain, and its zenith 245 days of a 365 day year were devoted to games at the Coliseum and Hippodrome. Christianity, Catholicism, and religion became the Bread and Circuses of a leaner, meaner Roman Empire, which still thrives to this day, unbeknownst to most people who do not intimately understand the law and history.

To become a Roman Citizen requires only one very simple thing…understanding you are in Rome and talking and presenting yourself like a Roman Citizen in front of any Court of Law, which I simply chose to do for humor and cleverness’s sake, not having any idea that the words and phrases I was speaking to the Judge in Latin actually identified me as a Roman Citizen worthy, deserving, and GAURANTEED every privilege due to a Citizen of Rome.

It sounds crazy, but hey it’s a crazy world and so am I!

reply to post by they see ALL


[INSULT REMOVED], Prison is no easy thing, i served 13 months in Australia and it was hell, I cant imagine what it'd be like in the states, yes the prisoners make it harder, but what do you expect when you put thousands of criminals in a facility together we're gonna make cupcakes?? first things first, the guards while some are decent blokes are usually pure evil, they don't care about anything to do with the cons and promote violence, while thankfully there wasn;t much rape going on, there was still regular beatings and humiliation from guards, first day there in australia someone will come up to you and say join us or we'll kill you, from then on no matter what you were in there for you become a bigger criminal then on the outside, I saw a 18 year old kid who was in, for weed have to stab another con only to have his head beaten in with a rock, the kid got an additional 4 years and I have no idea what happened to him but I'm guessing he isn't just a weed dealer now, prison is hell, the demons inside make it more so.

[edit on 28-4-2009 by SkepticOverlord]

reply to post by Plasma applicator

Excellent post
I must admit I am endeared.
ira esse perfida non potest.

Thanks my friend and the rich and powerful are treacherous by and large.

I have often gotten angry too at the Powers that Be and the unseemly things they do since I was a small boy.

I had a politically minded grandfather who with the aid of his elderly friends started schooling me about the ‘real’ world starting from the time I was 6. They would say “The books in school are going to tell you this is what happened but it wasn’t, what I am going to tell you is what is what really happened, I was there, I saw it, I lived through it”

By the time I was 13 the Government didn’t even want me in a Public School to infect other kids with what I had learned.

By the time I was 14 the Government didn’t even want me in any form of Government institution because I was just so incorrigible and had become a Master of what the Government hates most…costing them money! The old “hey it’s a pretty nice place you got here, it would be a shame if this or that where to happen to it if you know what I mean, badda boom badda bing”. Not bad for an English/Irish kid huh?

I lived in Southern California for a decade, West Hollywood right next to Beverly Hills.
Drive up and down the residential streets of Beverly Hills, Belle Aire, Hombey Hills and behind the door of every multi-million dollar mansion lives some kind of criminal. On paper it looks like Owner of Such and Such Company, President of such and such Charity, Member of such and such Pollo Team, Graduate of such and such University, but I guarantee you without exception they are a person who is bending and breaking a host of laws every day whether it be how they manufacture, how they import, how they export, how they pay and maintain employees, how they pay or evade taxes, how they obtain and use insider information and sweetheart deals and politicians, etc., etc.

The disturbing, deep, dark ugly truth about the world we live in is that people who are sent to prison for committing crimes aren’t being sent to prison for committing crimes, they are being sent to prison for being no darn good at committing crimes!

They were petty, sloppy, amateur or little league and didn’t line the right people’s pockets with a percentage of the spoils.

They don’t send you to jail for being a crook, they send you to jail for being a dumb crook!

There is such a thing as false accusation in this world. 50 some people have been released from Texas prisons in the last decade on DNA evidence. People who had spent tens of years in prison for crimes they did not commit. At least one of them died in prison and was exonerated posthumously. These were people the government swore up and down could not possibly be innocent. All of them were of low income.

THIS COULD BE YOU OR SOMEONE YOU LOVE.

There are political prisoners in the USA. I met many in my 8 years in Federal prison. There is also the industry of the prison system to consider. Billions are made on by paying slave wages to prisoners performing what is often skilled labor that they are literally forced into. This is the reason that the USA has more prisoners than China, a country with 10 times as many people. Most Chinese are already slave laborers. No need to lock them up. In the USA, you still need an excuse to enslave people. At least for now.

reply to post by they see ALL


Prison life is too easy!

HA!

That is hilarious coming from someone who has never been. I am reminded of the 18 year old bombarded with military recruitment propaganda only to find out the brutal reality of war.

I guess if one watches NatGeo channel for info on this subject, owned by NewsCorp by the way, one could reach your conclusion.

What's Prison Life really Like?

Please allow me to break it down for you, unfortunately for me, based on my own adventures.

TVs are a privilege, not everyone is allowed one. They are 13 inches, sometimes b&w and can only be purchased from DOC for around $200. Good luck coming up with that after the court rapes you with thousands of dollars of restitution and court costs. Also, watching daytime tv gets really really really old, fast. Not to mention, you are watching others live happy fun lives while you rot in an overcrowded cesspool of filth.

The commissary is a piece of paper and a pencil. It is a list of over priced junk food that you fill out once a week if you have any money. Honey buns that have 1000% of your daily fat, Ramen soup with 800% of your daily sodium, and weird powdered mixes, just crap.

The inmates that give interviews for tv shows like the one you watched are now in isolation, dead or on there way. The Guards on those shows sometimes act like they're cool with an inmate or savvy to what's really going on, but as soon as he turns his back, there's another world going on.

I remember in kindergarten we had nap time. We had these little vinyl coated mats about 3 inches thick. Well guess what, thats the mattress in there.


I was busted with under a pound of Marijuana, which is a plant, not a crime. My car, $12,000, and various other possessions were forfeited to the DEA. I paid $7,000 in court costs not to mention nearly $5,000 for representation for a lawyer who turned out to be in cahoots with the D.A. 3 year sentence.

I hate criminals, murdering, raping, molesting, thieving, lying, godless savages. I say lock them up. I get my kicks from a plant instead of alcohol and overly prescribed expensive chemical pills. And that, my friends is why they said I'm just as bad, and threw me in with the rest of em.

If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on. - Terence McKenna

peace out