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Global Insite: China Sees EU as Mere Pawn.

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posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 08:10 AM
Well, I don't know who owns the Federal Reserve, but I do remember seeing an organizational structure that assigned a prominent role to Lehman Brothers. I wonder how that's working out for them?

I know who owns this farmland though...I do!
It rains down softly upon my fields and the sun still shines and I didn't have to ask a banker for this.

Unless you can produce some evidence for these..."Powers that Be", I'll just assume that its just a lie. Sorry to hear about your slavery.

A British mean that place that will collapse long before we will?

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 08:12 AM
Honestly who really cares which country has teh most powerz? The living standard of the average citizen more directly effects your life then whether or not you are a superpower. With nuclear weapons wars of conquest are by proxy and if the wars of recent superpowers are anything to go by (USSR in Afganistan, US in Vietnam, Iraq and Afganistan) are more of a drain on the nations involved then beneficial. Even in the old days before nukes empires were more about satisfying the vanity of kings and dictators then improving the standard of living of the average citizen.

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 08:24 AM
Sounds like a lot of posters in this thread have never been outside of the US. US citizens are the only people I know (I'm dual US/UK Citizen with a concealed weapon permit and consider myself pretty independent) that crassly proclaim to be part of the "best country in the world" having never experienced first hand any other country.

Back on topic:

The EU is a fairly loose, but economically strong alliance. It works well for the time being. Like everything, there will be an end or a time of change or a time when the institution is perturbed. Will it last? No, nothing does. BUT, what China is saying has no ground.

If you know modern Chinese history, especially the last 20 years, you'll know that China as a united country isn't that unified. It's quite literally barely holding itself together. Politically it is very unstable. You have a relatively fractured, yes fractured, people with a top heavy government that fewer people in the country are finding easy to live with every year. China has put on a mask of a unified people, and it can do that, it has a very centralized, fairly impenetrable government. The reality is otherwise. I suggest many people who post here check out China's recent history and see how relatively un-united they really are.

Economically, I have a friend who's the son of Chinese immigrants in the US. He now lives in Shanghai. He was Yale Under, Harvard B-School. He can't tell me often enough how he regrets leaving the corporate litigation firm he was working at in LA to go work in Shanghai. Frustrating is his favorite word lately.

Considering that you can live quite easily on the equivalent of $50 a week in China says something about the standard of living.

When these underlying cracks come to the surface, the US will simply detach its economy from China and move it to India. The EU will probably do its own thing as usual.

I enjoy it when political entities say things like "The EU isn't a threat" or "Russia is no longer a threat." Economic threat? I thought the whole idea of economics in the sense of internation trade was, originally, for mutual benefit.

I would LOVE to see China operate under the duress of western food embargoes. The country would starve in a year tops. The US exports Arkansas rice to China for God's Sake. If the EU ever gets a hold of the Ukraine, modernizes its agriculture to western standards (which is 1% of the population produces 60% of the food), then both the EU and the US will be huge exporters of food. Russia has the capability, IMO, but hasn't modernized it yet. China has no room, and is slowly turning its own country into an overpopulated toxic wasteland.

[edit on 25-4-2009 by Galvatron]

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 08:31 AM
reply to post by Jacob08

Actually, I want to take issue with your views. The notion that governments don't exist to improve the lives of the average person is false. I went homeless. I slept and ate at the church (which operated thanks to government grant money) and I have to say that the individual determines the quality of their own life. All the things a person needs to improve their condition is available in this world...sometimes free of charge.

Its obvious to me that the myths you propagate involve wicked people who are greedy and in power and before they lose this place which they acquired through treachery, will tell more lies to get stupid people to help them destroy it, so that noone else can have a quality life.

The people who lead the decadent lifestyle you suggest are the same people that are now "exposing" official corruption, hoping that the people decide to destroy their own home because those guys got a bigger piece of pie than we did; unfortunately a lot of this energy is coming from Europe.

Apparently Europe's, specifically the EU concept, dreams of the future required that the US fell and it hasn't...and it won't. boo hoo.

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 08:40 AM
I think what you said is fairly ignorant.

The EU's mission statement or milestone for success never has, nor ever will, require the US to fall. As an Economics major, Finance and International business minor, I can say with strong confidence that the EU economically was formed to compete with, and more importantly, to better trade with, the US and the rest of the world. If the prime driver of the economic collaboration was taken away, then what would be the point? If the US crumbled, sure the EU would gloat a little, but so would China, so would Russia, so would India, so would Brazil, so would Argentina, so would South Africa, I can go on and on until I name every country.

As an economic entity, as of 2007, the EU became the world's largest economy. I'd say the collaboration worked on that front.

Politically is another story entirely.

[edit on 25-4-2009 by Galvatron]

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 08:42 AM
reply to post by huckfinn

Yes good government is important but a country doesn't need to be a superpower to be a nice place to live. That's why I was saying it shouldn't be that important to the average citizen because they rarely benefit. There are plenty of countries who aren't superpowers and are nicer places to live then China or the USSR when it was a superpower.

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 08:46 AM

Originally posted by silent thunder
snivviling, government-coddled Euros who whine and screetch endless complaints about the US while our tax dollars go to pay all the while for their militaries. It's pretty hard to take seriously a bunch of paunchy, sweater-bellie-d cafe welfare cases who whine and stamp their wittle feet beacuse the world isn't treatging them with the dignity they think they are accorded.

You haven't got a clue what you are on about my friend and your opinions are nothing more than bias propaganda based generalized stereotyping rubbish.

Cop onto yourself.

If you are saying that to try and make yourself look/feel better somehow about the civilian death toll your country is after building up over the decade or the ridiculous amounts of debt/bad health you are in because your government is too corrupt to care about its citizens.. then keep making these stupid statements about us "Whinging Europeans" and our crazy political ideologies where taxpayer money goes back into society instead of bombing another one.

Otherwise get a grip on the reality of the world.

I don't consider myself 'European' but I can acknowledge that the general "Mainland European" way of thinking regarding aggressiveness, society and pretty much everything else is light years ahead of yours... you obviously cant understand it and therefore hate it...

We understand that fact and therefore give you less time than you "think" you deserve.. thats probably also adding to the giant chip on your shoulder in relation to the subject.

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 08:49 AM
I agree, Jacob.

Canada, Norway, Australia.... routinely listed as the most desirable places in the world to live. Are they economic, political, or military behemoths? Nope. They take care of their people, and people there take care of each other. Do they have trade deficits, you better believe it. But the intellectual capital and novel products and service exports due in large part to their standard of living surely keeps them "in business."

I live in Dallas, Texas now. Would I like to live anywhere else? I can only think of a handful of places. As a US/UK dual citizen, I loves me my gunzsz.

Either way, China has no ground to stand on when it says stuff like that.

Dermo, you're right. That guy clearly isn't very worldly. Like I said. Americans have the annoying tendancy to say they're the greatest without ever experiencing anything else. It's like Saint Nick. No one ever tells them otherwise and when they've been programmed since children to think that way, when they're adults it is very hard to let the know otherwise.

The US, right now, is acting like the teenage son with angst saying "I hate you dad!"

Europeans view Americans as teenagers to a large extent who have a simple culture and without the stomach for a proper war. Hence why Europeans are cautious about going to war. But when they do, it's for keeps. If you want a history lesson on war, read European history from ~100 B.C to 1945. More wars than anywhere else on earth combined.

[edit on 25-4-2009 by Galvatron]

[edit on 25-4-2009 by Galvatron]

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 09:09 AM
reply to post by Galvatron

I don't think its that ignorant, but insightful. As a person who acquired advanced degrees in Business, Financial Markets and Trading and Public Policy and Administration, I now see that the EU was set up to pick up the slack after America fell in this most recent War. America hasn't fallen, won't fall; thus their isn't any slack to pick up and the EU isn't turning out to be as dynamic as the planners had hoped.

The Euro was to take over from the Dollar. I remember when Jay-Z, a rapper, in late 2007, I think, promoted use of the Euro, as opposed to the Dollar in a Rap European production and trade systems were to take over from a destroyed American infrastructure, etc. It's all quite obvious, now that the lights are on. America was to be turned into a slave colony for real, not like the one people describe on these threads.

Europe's, Africa's and the Middle East's plot to betray America was comprehensive.

People are still holding out hope that the American system will collapse in the coming months...but it won't.

American's have to face the facts...Europe, Africa and the Middle East view us as children and incapable of fighting to the very end; with people over here claiming to be German-Americans, African-Americans or Arab-Americans, instead of just being Americans, they may have a point.

Our relationship with China will be our first adult relationship in over 100 years and our resources won't be available to be wasted on their problems. This is their fear. The nations over there have been in a constant state of War since the beginning of history...there is nothing more that we can learn from them.

[edit on 25-4-2009 by huckfinn]

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 09:19 AM
What recent war? "Iraq war"? The EU and Euro was created long before that..

Betrayal? Many European countries followed bush into it..

[edit on 25-4-2009 by AR154]

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 09:19 AM

Originally posted by huckfinn
America tumbling down? Where do you get your information? Probably from some dark corner on the web.

Perhaps you should come from under your stone... sub prime mortgage crisis, unemployment rate, major debts? The automotive industry collapse?

America was nothing after WWII compared to what it has just become! I have the vision to see that our reputation after WWII was not deserved, we were not what everyone said we were. It wasn't until after we survived the latest plot that we truely became a HyperPower and everyone knows it.

Can you elaborate this ''hyper power thing'' and ''the latest plot''?

Why would Russia be so freaked out by US, along with our NATO dog, pushing up to their borders? We stand in the midst of the Middle East, d1ck swinging and noone can do anything about it.
Dude...we Won this war..Ha! A big party is starting over here and China, Japan, Korea, etc. are with us.

Oh really? That's why America has been begging for help from its (European) allies, right? In fact, the US would not be capable of invading another country now... Pakistan for instance. But dream on Mr America.

Europe irrelevant. Guy you are so funny. The Roman empire, the British, Dutch, French, Spanish empires lasted for ages. I would dare to make a bet that the US supremacy is not gonna last a hundred years.

American arrogance and ignorance, it's sickening.

[edit on 25-4-2009 by Mdv2]

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 09:23 AM

Originally posted by Galvatron
BUT, what China is saying has no ground.

I would LOVE to see China operate under the duress of western food embargoes. The country would starve in a year tops.
[edit on 25-4-2009 by Galvatron]

Don't want to argue politics, we all have our own views. But you have at least two mistakes in your post.

First, China didn't say anything, it is all western speculation. You didn't read the original article, I guess.

Second, we produce enough food for ourselves. Period. We export more food than imports. Your love has no ground. Sorry.

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 09:24 AM

Originally posted by AR154
What recent war? "Iraq war"? The EU and Euro was created long before that..

Uh...yeah...I think that if the EU was designed to pick up the slack that it would already have to exist when we fell. If we fall first and then they build it, they'd risk not being able to pick up the slack.

The EU went through a development process with the final pieces added in 2002, I think; just in time to fulfill its true purpose. The act of betrayal I continually refer to occured in November 2005. They like November and schedule most of their treachery during this month.

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 09:38 AM
That's silly. There is no chance in hell that the Euro would ever replace the U.S. Dollar. Buying oil, for example. The US arranged that with the House of Saud a log time ago. It's a written contract that the House of Saud won't accept any currency besides the US dollar. Read about it. The whole threat of OPEC dumping the dollar in favor of the euro was to cause market volatility and open opportunities for them. It was lip service. Research Aramco, the House of Saud, and their contract with the US, and US oil companies.

As far as the Euro dominating the Dollar in other areas? I know many people who work for European companies but live in the US. They get the option to be paid in Euros. Almost none take that option. It isn't worth while. Sounds like a grand strategy for the fall of the US Dollar to me

[edit on 25-4-2009 by Galvatron]

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 09:46 AM
reply to post by Mdv2

The destruction you see is not the REAL America, but a parasite system that had attached itself to America. If America was falling for real, it would not be televised; you wouldn't know what happened.

Do you have any ideas concerning how War works? if not, it may be useless for me to explain it to you. However, that's not America begging for help, that is the beneficiaries of the parasite system I mentioned above that was attached to America begging for help.

Because I suspect that the source of the parasite system is located in Europe, the Middle East and Africa...what you think is the destruction of the American system is instead another system.

Americans were not a superpower, or hyperpower, as many "experts" kept repeating for decades. It was a compliant and occupied nation. When we became non-compliant with the people who'd fashioned themselves our owners just recently...they tried to take our superpower status and drag our name through the dirt. Fortunately for us all, it only works if we cared for these terms to begin with...we did not, so it isn't working.

America is in fact today, what we were only in name in the past. In the present time we are far more powerful than we've ever been. Wealthier than we've ever been and have a brighter future than we've ever had. It's a bunch of propaganda to suggest the opposite.

Your problem may be this, you think you know America, but do not. You know yourself, but cannot stand to see yourself in the mirror. Someones world is being ravaged and nothing can save it; the only thing I am 100% certain of is this, it ain't America or by extension the United States.

I think you may have been lied to. I hear people screaming in the dark and noone can/will save them. It's actually hilarious.

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 09:51 AM
reply to post by Galvatron

If the plan involves the destruction of the Dollar, then the Saudi can sell his oil in any currency he wants to under the new arrangement. I am aware of the contract regarding dollar denominated oil.

I am also very aware of the details of the plot to subvert the American system, which European players were key. That is why they are so concerned with the US/China Alliance. For a greedy person, this is unacceptable and represents and existential threat. Haven't you heard the screams?

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 10:00 AM
Red China:

China DOES import more foodstuffs than it exports. Read some recent ERS reports.

For 2008, China has an export/import ratio for grains, feeds, and milled foods of 1.4/2.6. Fertilizer is a staggering .2/2.8 ratio. and "other" food stuffs is .4/1.2.

Don't tell me they export more food than they import. My recent trip to see my buddy in Shangai was revealing. The cities are booming, but standard of living for non business executives is rather low still. The countryside is a different story all together. If you visit the tourist locations it's beautiful. But if you go to average-joe town in the country it is quite polluted and grim looking. Hell, I even visited Wuhan for 2 days. Talk about toxic. You could barely see down the street, and it wasn't foggy out.

What I'm trying to say is that China really needs to step up if they want to be a player. They're trying so desperately but some of their steps have landed very off track.

China also needs to check it's debt collateralization as well as the "equity" it owns in the U.S.

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 10:46 AM
No need for bashing each others continents and no need for degrading Europe in such a fashion. As of 2007 we are the largest economy in the world accompanied with a strong currency, we are leading the developments ongoing Climate adaptation and mitigation[the most crucial challenges of our time], actually the union was never so united as during the Kyoto protocol, we lead the world into new science opportunities with the greatest scientific project of all time with CERN's LHC in Geneva. Most important we live in peace since '45 -1948 (ROME) and with great prosperity, wealth and health for all our citizens.
2 Huckfinn I challenge you to explain your sources and findings why Europe is the source of the parasite system of the world?, and why we want the US to fall? why you think the US is more powerfull then ever and who can you relate these findings to the financial and economic crisis started last year..?

[edit on 25-4-2009 by Foppezao]

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 11:26 AM
reply to post by Foppezao

I don't think Europe is the source of the parasite system, I approximated that 1/3 of the people that make up the parasite system are working out of Europe and possibly even of European descent, possibly using their new EU concept as a sort of bucket to catch all of the wealth they loot from America. Whenever some powerful man falls in this country, especially the corrupted ones, the first place they mention he might run to escape prosecution is Europe.

I see the History we read as seeing America through Europe's and Asia's eyes; thus incorrect. I see Religion, especially Christianity, Atheism, Islam and Judaism as totally foreign concepts to America and responsible for the degradation of our society. I see the idea that American's are England's children as an obvious lie. It continues...Politics, Monetization, etc. all parasitic concepts coming straight out of Europe.

It seems that Europe is of the habit of viewing and using the Americans, specifically of the United States, as a Mercenary to accomplish its goals. I am sure the people that are doing this would much prefer to capture America and keep it as its personal possession without destroying us, but if this is not possible, then they will try to destroy it. As they have been... trying.

Many people give a long discussion about America's problem being using too much credit, or consuming too much and not producing enough as the reason for its downfall, but I see it as our system is under a well coordinated attack intended bring about collapse. Yes, I think its lead from someone living in Europe; Europeans lead the world in many areas and destroying non-compliant nations is one of them. If I had to point to one person...I'd say it's Reza Pahlavi and Aga Khan.

Take the subprime collapse, nothing more than financial bombs that were set to go off if we didn't deliver what they wanted. They didn't get what they wanted, the bombs went off. It has nothing at all to do with a mundane discussions concerning fiscal and monetary policy (very European ways of doing things), as the likes of Ron Paul would suggest. They won't get what they want, we'll get more attacks.

I mentioned in an earlier post that this is a game, a scenario if you will, I am playing right now. I am far more benign, indifferent, with my views concerning foreign worlds, but as time winds down in this war, I've decided to take the posture of extreme intolerance to all things non-American.

I don't believe that a true wedge can be driven between America and Europe. I don't view Europe as a threat. Perhaps they are I don't see it. I do see China's emergence as positive for America. I see China's problems with their environment as an opportunity for American companies. I see America's relationship with China as possibly disagreeable to Europeans, who will be put on the back burner as a direct result.

It's inevitable and everyone knows it. We'll still be friends, but Europeans won't be dictating terms to us...those day are long gone.

posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 11:34 AM
reply to post by Galvatron

Can you give me a link to support what you said?

I have a link for you from United States Department of Agriculture Foreign Agricultural Service to support what I said.

FYI, China total grain production: 421.2 million tons. enough for Chinese.

Comparison: India total grain production 215 million tons. World total production is 2225.

US did force China and Japan to import the evil US GM crops to balance the trade at a pretty price. We don't need that. In Japan, US rice was rotten in stock.

BTW, I agree China is still much poorer country compared to western world, if it makes you happy.

Final question, can you tell me whether China produce enough food for Chinese? Just say YES or NO.

Anyway, do NOT tell us we will be staving without western food.

[edit on 25-4-2009 by redchina]

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