So you work at Top Secret Facility, how would you get E.T. info. Out?

Nightvision,the fact that our governments ,by design of the current democratic governing systems,DO NOT DO WHAT THE PEOPLE ASK,ARE NOT OBLIGATED THROUGH PUNATIVE LAW TO FULFILL THEIR REPRESENTATIVE OBLIGATIONS ,ARE NO LONGER ABLE TO REPRESENT THE PEOPLE WITHOUT CONSIDERING THE GLOBAL VALIDITY OR VOTING RIGHT OF EVERY HUMAN ON THE PLANET, AND FINALLY THESE GOVERNING BODIES MISINFORM US AND DIRECTLY LIE TO US .

This is why we have to approach our issue from a two-pronged perspective and circumvent our governments efforts at non-disclosure,OR WE WILL REMAIN IN THE DARK.

Any other race of humans would certainly be seeking disclosure simply because humans are caring open minded ,intelligent lifeforms as individuals,its our power systems governments,religons,global corps.,ect. that create and propogate the ugly aspects of humanity.THEY ACTUALLY HAVE TO MANIPULATE GLOBAL CIRCUMSTANCE AND BILLIONS OF PEOPLE DAILY TO CONTINUE TO MAINTAIN THEIR POLITICAL AND BUSINESS AND RELIGOUS MACHINES.

Disclosure happens every day,just not ALL AT ONCE ON A GLOBAL SCALE LARGE ENOUGH TO SCREW ANY GOVERNMENTS WHO ARE CURRENTLY PURSUEING NON-DISCLOSURE POLICYS.
The average human is a better ambassador for humanity than anyone our corrupt governments would have represent us.

This is truly what disclosure is all about,its about preventing billions of people from sharing a perspective or an opportunity for a globally co-operative feality or future.

Its not just about the races of humans that are abducting us as much as it is about maintaining global political domination BY ENSURING SURVIVAL OF MANY INDIVIDUAL GOVERNMENTS AND COUNTRIES TO ENSURE THAT WAR AND A DIVIDED PERSPECTIVE OR REALITY HAS A PLACE TO THRIVE.

It is this division of global perspective that allows evil,or bad,or negative realities to prevail over mankind as a whole ,and this is exactly why we have the power to eradicate these things from our global reality or our world. We just have to teach each other the realities of our global situation and we will by human nature choose to work together at deciding their own future path as opposed to having evil entities, few in number and selfish in nature,choose our path for us.

ETs are humans,or human races that have been on earth much longer than we have and although they may be our "creators" in the sense that they altered the genetics of an "already properly developing primate" here on earth,they sleep under the same sky as us and have the same GOD AS WE DO.Cave men were on their way to where we are now anyways its only a time issue,we were developing into our "god"as we were evolving,someone just gave us genetic "BOOSTS" that forced us to evolve faster than naturally.

Thats it thats all folks.We need to step up or step back my friends because we have all reached "GOD STATUS".Its only our behaviour and lack of a global voice or direction that is truly representative of our species that holds us back from learning more about what we can do and where we can go.Our relatives are trying to help us not conquor, us or eat us,just help us survive long enough to realise our potential.

One must also remember there are other considerations for the government that has extraterrestrial craft:

1. Roswell happened in 1947, the War of the Worlds broadcast happened in October of 1938. There was a lot of panic from people who heard the broadcast. The government did not want such panic when the real deal just crashed.

2. The military does not want to admit what we have as they would be obligated to share any information learned from such technology.

3. With many religious and other belief systems still not open to the idea of extraterrestrials, they may also think we are not psychologically ready. Seventy percent may be ready now, but that leaves thirty percent that aren't ready yet. They may be waiting for ninety percent or better before they disclose any information.

Originally posted by kidflash2008
One must also remember there are other considerations for the government that has extraterrestrial craft:

2. The military does not want to admit what we have as they would be obligated to share any information learned from such technology.

3. With many religious and other belief systems still not open to the idea of extraterrestrials, they may also think we are not psychologically ready. Seventy percent may be ready now, but that leaves thirty percent that aren't ready yet. They may be waiting for ninety percent or better before they disclose any information.

KidFlash, I very much enjoy reading your posts as they are lucid, informed and well-balanced in thought. Kudos.

What about this: The FOIA allows regular civilians access to information, albeit limited. Given that the population at large may not be entirely ready for such a truth, and getting credible and verifiable info. out of a base, is extremely difficult, what if a system was set up to allow a small group of civilians (say 5 or so) full access to a small, but truthful piece of the UFO pie?

Security could be maintained through non-disclosure agreements, but access to this info. could be gained through membership to this civilian enterprise. The info. on the inside would have to be real tangible, and credible, but in a secure location. That way, any word of mouth info. that slips out could not be immediately 'proven'. Those with membership could access this info./materials but not be able to carry any info. out of the location. Just like a real military base.

That way, each member could know the 'truth' for themselves, without jeopardizing public perception at large, or sensitive defense secrets.

The key would be gathering together a few of those on the inside with sincere intent of getting 'some' credible info. out. Perhaps a first step could be the alleged briefing documents workers are required to read before beginning back engineering ops?



I'm not sure if I have communicated this thought clearly and technically enough, but you get the idea.

reply to post by NightVision


That has been happening if the people who Major Kevin Randle has interviewed are telling the truth (and they would not have any reason to lie about the matter). Brigadier General Arthur Exon has allegedly spoken with top military people who did see the bodies at Roswell. The persons who viewed the bodies have not come forward.

Others have stated on their deathbeds to close family members what they have seen, and this is also viewed as hear say. Again, when a person is close to meeting their Maker, why would they state something that is not true?

I would imagine that people who work on the craft and bodies are a mix of civilian and military. It is probably a small number, and the people who have access have the highest clearances in the country. They may not say anything until the Grim Reaper is at their door, because they have been in the military very long and are very serious about keeping secrets.

Another problem is many people think there are hundreds of flying saucers in our inventory and people are working side by side with aliens. This myth works well with the military, as many people will think it is nonsense and will put all flying saucer stories into the same pile. Ufology and the myth that surrounds the subject is our own worst enemy. I am trying to look at this on a very realistic eye.

1. How many extraterrestrial objects have actually crashed to Earth? If they are so advanced, the answer would be very few. Most would be unmanned probes from distant parts of the galaxy.

2. What could the actually reverse engineer from an unknown technology? It would be quite beyond our capabilities, so a limited number of scientist would be working on trying to understand the concepts of what makes it work.

3. Underground bases such as Dulce, do they exist? There are many underground secret bases, but they are for keeping VIPs safe in case of an emergency. Dulce probably does not exist, but is in the mythology. The military may fly black helicopters and even drive government SUVs near the area to keep people thinking something is there.

4. Where would the stuff actually be kept? The logical answer would be at a known military base. There are many areas on military bases that are off limits unless the person has a clearance for it. Such places would be like a weapons storage area. No one would suspect a place like that used to store extraterrestrial craft and bodies. The area would also have storage for nuclear weapons, so servicemen can say they have been inside and nothing strange is there.

5. It would also be at a base with a lot of flag officers. I would imagine the person in charge being an O-7 or an O-8. Years of experience would be helpful in keeping the secrets. It would take up to a year or more just for the new clearance to be cleared.

These are just some of the things I think about in regards to this subject. It may not be as exciting as a huge underground alien base, but it is based on reality of what is out there. The sensational stuff sells books and DVDs. The dry, routine stuff does not.

reply to post by NightVision


I also want to thank you for the kind thoughts. I try to be intelligent when getting my thoughts across, but sometimes I can ramble.

I think the main problem with disclosure is how and when they would do it. The information would change the world view, literally. Who would explain it and how would they do it without people panicking? Right now the country has some major problems to deal with, and a new administration finding its way. After the economy gets going, the debate will be in the alphabet agencies that control the information. President Obama may not even know, as President Eisenhower made it so even a President would have to have a need to know.

Most of the high ranking civilians and military would lose all their retirement and other benefits if they went public with such material. That is enough to keep anyone quiet.

The government keeps area 51 garded in order to help keep the focus there, they still test experimental craft there, which is why the boundries have been pusshed further out, but these are usuall craft they getting ready to disclose anyway just in case. As far as I have heard, nothing is stored there anymore, it is usually taken there from other secret sites, and returned back after testing.

reply to post by AlienCarnage


Carnage, I'm not sure if you've been reading this thread but its not longer about Area51 and I'm not sure how your comment is relevant to the discussion at hand.

reply to post by KidFlash


What about releasing critical information in the form of a movie script to hollywood? That way there is still plausible deniability.

reply to post by NightVision


I have been reading the thread, but I was trying to stay on OT but I conceed your point.

This is a second post, but it is seperate from my previous post, in that it is going on topic with your current discussion so I think it is allowed.

The government coverups being talked about, such as roswell for example, were not covering up crashed alien craft, they were covering up secret military craft that had crashed during testing. The coverup was using the UFO story to their advantage and making it look as though this were the actual story being covered up.

If you were to get any information out about anything, you would be dissapointed to find it was all terstial, and would be grounds for military trials, due to leaking information about military top secret aircraft, equiptment . . . . . etc.

This is the problem in asking for disclosure and why you will never recieve it. Military around the world would have to reveal all top secret projects . . . and since they are all terestrial in origin would not be the answers people are looking for.

[edit on 4/29/2009 by AlienCarnage]

Originally posted by AlienCarnage


The government coverups being talked about, such as roswell for example, were not covering up crashed alien craft, they were covering up secret military craft that had crashed during testing. The coverup was using the UFO story to their advantage and making it look as though this were the actual story being covered up.

If that is the case then why did the army retract their UFO 'cover' story, as you put it?

Your assumption that there were no ET craft at Roswell is in direct conflict with the testimony and death bed confessions of Army Personell Walter Haut, Jesse Marcel, several other Army enlistees, and The AirForce's own press release in 1996:

May I direct you to the Walter Haut Memo. This memo was only to be released in the event of his death.

2002 SEALED AFFIDAVIT OF WALTER G. HAUT

DATE: December 26, 2002 WITNESS:

Chris Xxxxxx

NOTARY: Beverlee Morgan

(1) My name is Walter G. Haut

(2) I was born on June 2, 1922

(3) My address is 1405 W. 7th Street, Roswell, NM 88203

(4) I am retired.

(5) In July, 1947, I was stationed at the Roswell Army Air Base in Roswell, New Mexico, serving as the base Public Information Officer. I had spent the 4th of July weekend (Saturday, the 5th, and Sunday, the 6th) at my private residence about 10 miles north of the base, which was located south of town.

(6) I was aware that someone had reported the remains of a downed vehicle by midmorning after my return to duty at the base on Monday, July 7. I was aware that Major Jesse A. Marcel, head of intelligence, was sent by the base commander, Col. William Blanchard, to investigate.

(7) By late in the afternoon that same day, I would learn that additional civilian reports came in regarding a second site just north of Roswell. I would spend the better part of the day attending to my regular duties hearing little if anything more.

(8) On Tuesday morning, July 8, I would attend the regularly scheduled staff meeting at 7:30 a.m. Besides Blanchard, Marcel; CIC [Counterintelligence Corp] Capt. Sheridan Cavitt; Col. James I. Hopkins, the operations officer; Lt. Col. Ulysses S. Nero, the supply officer; and from Carswell AAF in Fort Worth, Texas, Blanchard's boss, Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey and his chief of staff, Col. Thomas J. Dubose were also in attendance. The main topic of discussion was reported by Marcel and Cavitt regarding an extensive debris field in Lincoln County approx. 75 miles NW of Roswell. A preliminary briefing was provided by Blanchard about the second site approx. 40 miles north of town. Samples of wreckage were passed around the table. It was unlike any material I had or have ever seen in my life. Pieces which resembled metal foil, paper thin yet extremely strong, and pieces with unusual markings along their length were handled from man to man, each voicing their opinion. No one was able to identify the crash debris.

(9) One of the main concerns discussed at the meeting was whether we should go public or not with the discovery. Gen. Ramey proposed a plan, which I believe originated from his bosses at the Pentagon. Attention needed to be diverted from the more important site north of town by acknowledging the other location. Too many civilians were already involved and the press already was informed. I was not completely informed how this would be accomplished.

(10) At approximately 9:30 a.m. Col. Blanchard phoned my office and dictated the press release of having in our possession a flying disc, coming from a ranch northwest of Roswell, and Marcel flying the material to higher headquarters. I was to deliver the news release to radio stations KGFL and KSWS, and newspapers the Daily Record and the Morning Dispatch.

(11) By the time the news release hit the wire services, my office was inundated with phone calls from around the world. Messages stacked up on my desk, and rather than deal with the media concern, Col Blanchard suggested that I go home and "hide out."

(12) Before leaving the base, Col. Blanchard took me personally to Building 84 [AKA Hangar P-3], a B-29 hangar located on the east side of the tarmac. Upon first approaching the building, I observed that it was under heavy guard both outside and inside. Once inside, I was permitted from a safe distance to first observe the object just recovered north of town. It was approx. 12 to 15 feet in length, not quite as wide, about 6 feet high, and more of an egg shape. Lighting was poor, but its surface did appear metallic. No windows, portholes, wings, tail section, or landing gear were visible.

(13) Also from a distance, I was able to see a couple of bodies under a canvas tarpaulin. Only the heads extended beyond the covering, and I was not able to make out any features. The heads did appear larger than normal and the contour of the canvas suggested the size of a 10 year old child. At a later date in Blanchard's office, he would extend his arm about 4 feet above the floor to indicate the height.

(14) I was informed of a temporary morgue set up to accommodate the recovered bodies.

(15) I was informed that the wreckage was not "hot" (radioactive).

(16) Upon his return from Fort Worth, Major Marcel described to me taking pieces of the wreckage to Gen. Ramey's office and after returning from a map room, finding the remains of a weather balloon and radar kite substituted while he was out of the room. Marcel was very upset over this situation. We would not discuss it again.

(17) I would be allowed to make at least one visit to one of the recovery sites during the military cleanup. I would return to the base with some of the wreckage which I would display in my office.

(18) I was aware two separate teams would return to each site months later for periodic searches for any remaining evidence.

(19) I am convinced that what I personally observed was some type of craft and its crew from outer space.

(20) I have not been paid nor given anything of value to make this statement, and it is the truth to the best of my recollection.

Signed: Walter G. Haut December 26, 2002

Signature witnessed by: Chris Xxxxxxx

[edit on 29-4-2009 by NightVision]

reply to post by NightVision


I don't know if you have understanding of how the military mind works but I will let you in on it.
Take Roswell for example. A downed military test craft is seen by many, the government gets in as fast as possible to clean it up, but by then there are already stories of a flying saucer, bingo great opotunity for cover story, but they can't just say it is an alien craft so they "cover up" the "alien crash". They find the flimsiest story possible, ei. weather baloon, so that people will know that something is being covered up, but what the people think is being covered up is the alien crash, not the actual truth. This starts a whole process of denial of aliens and since there are no real aliens there is no chance of discovery, and using this new belief anytime someone sees something more than likely it will get attributed to aliens. The military will deny it since it is obviously not aliens, this leads to more suspicion from people who are seeing these craft. And thus the circle continues. The government is lot lying they are not covering up aliens, in this stage they are not even necessarily blak ops projects, just tests of advanced vehicles and technology.

Besides if you look at the discriptions of the roswell crashed vehicles from origional statements, you will see that they fit well with later declassified military vehicles.

Deathbed confessions from something that had happened many years before. I don't know if you have ever been bedside while someone is dying but I have been many times and their perceptions of reality ar very skewed, so any confessions of this type can not be held to be reliable.As far as others that have come forward, again this is years after the fact, and if it is not a confession right after the fact, memories do get distorted, even talking to friends from years past about ordinary things their perception of things is usually differnt than yours. So obviously this is not a reliable source either.

Originally posted by AlienCarnage
reply to post by NightVision

 

I don't know if you have understanding of how the military mind works but I will let you in on it.

No need. Thank you though. I have friends in the DOD, and Navy Intel. I understand how cover stories work, but I'm afraid you simply haven't looked at all the evidence. Its really that simply. No offense.

Besides if you look at the discriptions of the roswell crashed vehicles from origional statements, you will see that they fit well with later declassified military vehicles.

Descriptions? From who? Where? Have you studied this case? I have studied the Roswell case in detail. The military vehicles you speak of weren't even tested in near the crash site until 1952.

Deathbed confessions from something that had happened many years before. I don't know if you have ever been bedside while someone is dying but I have been many times and their perceptions of reality ar very skewed, so any confessions of this type can not be held to be reliable.As far as others that have come forward, again this is years after the fact, and if it is not a confession right after the fact, memories do get distorted, even talking to friends from years past about ordinary things their perception of things is usually differnt than yours. So obviously this is not a reliable source either.

There is no denying that after many years pass, that memories can get blurry or skewed, however, in this case the 5 major key players recall almost exactly the same details. There's a very slim chance that 5 individuals could all be hallucinating the same events.

At any rate, the key players I am speaking of all documented these events as they happened and later released them shortly before their deaths. Kinda throws the 'hallucination' argument out the window.

reply to post by NightVision

Descriptions? From who? Where? Have you studied this case? I have studied the Roswell case in detail. The military vehicles you speak of weren't even tested in near the crash site until 1952.

I used to be a believer in these crahes being of alien in origin, thus I have every book, magazine article, newspaper article, and video, that I could get my hands on. There are many descriptions of the crashed vehicles given in all of these. If you have been following the story like you said you have I shouldn't have to point this out to you.

As far as testing of top secret military planes and equipment, this goes back much farther than 1952, sory but I don't know why you would think otherwise. WWII ended in 1945, buit during the war many top secret Aircraft were tested not far away from here and even after the war, they did not just suddenly start testing in 1952.

In 1937 the flying wing was built. By 1947 they were testing othe military designs similar to this with many similarities and differences. One of these experimental craft fits with one of the descriptions in the documentation that I have read. I am at work now and do not have the material to quote from, but I am sure if you do a google search you can find it easy enough.

There is no denying that after many years pass, that memories can get blurry or skewed, however, in this case the 5 major key players recall almost exactly the same details. There's a very slim chance that 5 individuals could all be hallucinating the same events.

At any rate, the key players I am speaking of all documented these events as they happened and later released them shortly before their deaths. Kinda throws the 'hallucination' argument out the window.

There were many discrepencies in there descriptions from original to later released documents. Hardly verbatem, which attributes to the time passing i suppose you would say. Just about everone who promotes these stories as proof, overlooks this. They always quote the testimonies and refuse to see the discrepencies in testimonies. Even when debated about, they still refuse to see the obvious discrepencies, I will look around when i get home tonight to see if I can point this out to you from the source, since I am at work and do not have access to it currently.

Originally posted by AlienCarnage
reply to post by NightVision

 

I used to be a believer in these crahes being of alien in origin, thus I have every book, magazine article, newspaper article, and video, that I could get my hands on. There are many descriptions of the crashed vehicles given in all of these. If you have been following the story like you said you have I shouldn't have to point this out to you.

"These crashes"? Roswell had one crash reported to be extra-terrestrial. There we others reported in NM at other times, but I was under the impression we were talking about Roswell. Without getting into a spirited debate over Roswell, I would advise you to state your credentials and/or sources before going any further.

As far as testing of top secret military planes and equipment, this goes back much farther than 1952, sory but I don't know why you would think otherwise. WWII ended in 1945, buit during the war many top secret Aircraft were tested not far away from here and even after the war, they did not just suddenly start testing in 1952.

This is obvious. I reffering to the Air Force's own report in 1996 stating that what the Roswell witnesses saw were down weather balloons. Declassified Military Records and testimony show that balloon testing did not take place in that area until 1952.

There were many discrepencies in there descriptions from original to later released documents. Hardly verbatem, which attributes to the time passing i suppose you would say. Just about everone who promotes these stories as proof, overlooks this. They always quote the testimonies and refuse to see the discrepencies in testimonies. Even when debated about, they still refuse to see the obvious discrepencies, I will look around when i get home tonight to see if I can point this out to you from the source, since I am at work and do not have access to it currently.

Again, you offer no source or evidence for your argument, and quite frankly I am losing interest. If you're going to continue this way, perhaps the 'Gray Area' forum would be of interest to you.

The wealth of books, and articles, and newspaper clippings you say you own, have somehow left you w. nothing more than Google searches to go on? Sorry, I am having trouble buying your side of the debate.



[edit on 30-4-2009 by NightVision]

[edit on 30-4-2009 by NightVision]

reply to post by NightVision


You are talking about the weather balloon???? I thought we were far beyond that obvious fake coverup by now. I am talking about actual experimental Aircraft, that match descriptions given in many different places. Unfortunately like I said, I am at work, so I do not have the texts with me currently, but when I do get home this evening I wil be happy to quote from my source material anything you would like.

By the way, there were "TWO' crash sites in Roswell. One was scattered over a farm, the other was were the "bodies" were found. For someone who supposedly knows about this case, you don't seem to have all of your information straight.

reply to post by NightVision


This is the related to the first crash which is obviously used to help promote the balloon story.

July 9, 1947, edition of the Roswell Daily Record

"The balloon which held it up, if that was how it worked, must have been 12 feet long, [Brazel] felt, measuring the distance by the size of the room in which he sat. The rubber was smoky gray in color and scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter. When the debris was gathered up, the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches thick, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds. There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine, and no sign of any propellers of any kind, although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil. There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument, although there were letters on some of the parts. Considerable Scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction. No strings or wires were to be found but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used.”

Project Serpo Releas:

The information posted stated that in July 1947 there were two extraterrestrial UFOs that crashed in the state of New Mexico, and they formed the basis for the Roswell incident.

This talks about the two craft that crashed. When I get home I will find more from my books for you, but this information should suffice for now.

Originally posted by AlienCarnage
reply to post by NightVision

 

By the way, there were "TWO' crash sites in Roswell. One was scattered over a farm, the other was were the "bodies" were found. For someone who supposedly knows about this case, you don't seem to have all of your information straight.

It is obvious that there were two crash sites at Roswell reported to be Extra terrestrial. In my mind they count as one crash being that they occurred near, or on the same day. I'm talking about anything before or after July 1947. See where I'm going with this?

As well, the fact that you give Project Serpo any credit displays very little credibility in your findings. Project Serpo is information given from an anonymous email source thru another third party, and then delivered to Project Camelot. Good luck finding anything verifiable there.

if you want to continue this discussion I recommend you create another thread, otherwise please don't derail this one any further off topic. At least source your material, or state your credentials, if you have any. Roswell Daily News clippings do not count unless your trying to prove that they are capable of detracting their own information. If you have anything beyond what you cut and pasted from your Google Searches, I would love to see it.

Good day to you, sir.



[edit on 30-4-2009 by NightVision]

[edit on 30-4-2009 by NightVision]

reply to post by NightVision


I am not derailing your thread, you continue to ask for source information, but you fail to provide your own, your belief in these things is simply not enough, please do provide your own sources as well. You state I am derailing this thead, because it questions your beliefs, but you back none of your claims up with hard evidence either. You supplied "testemony" from sources, when I discouted those, with good reasons that are easy to understand, which seems to be your only real case, you ignored it and contiue to ask me to offer proof without supplying any yourself aside from the "testimony". I provide two quotes which you don't happen to agree with so you discount those, even thogh one supports your case.

I have an open mind, as I said I once was a strong supporter of the Roswell incident as an alien crash, but then I started to look at it more objectively and opened myself up to all possibilities, and it just does not add up with it being an alien crash site. There are many other beter stories that are more of a possiblitity, but this one I no longer believe is.

In order to be objective, you must look at the case from all angles, not just a narowminded point of view, that is how you deny ignorance which is the main purpose of this site.

[edit on 4/30/2009 by AlienCarnage]

Originally posted by AlienCarnage
reply to post by NightVision

 

I am not derailing your thread,you continue to ask for source information, but you fail to provide your own, your belief in these things is simply not enough, please do provide your own sources as well.

In case you didn't read through this thread, let me remind you that it is not about Roswell, it is about how to get critical info. out of a top secret facility. The T&C's of this site require you to discuss the matter at hand. If you want discuss Roswell in another thread, I would be happy too.

you continue to ask for source information, but you fail to provide your own, your belief in these things is simply not enough, please do provide your own sources as well.

This is incorrect and a reflection of poor memory on your part. I provided to you an authorized, signed and witnessed affidavit by public information officer Walter Haut (PIO) at the 509th Bomb Group based in Roswell, New Mexico during 1947.

If thats not enough, his testimony is in direct corroboration with that of Maj. Jesse Marcel, Jesse Marcel Jr. Sgt. Robert Porter: B-29 flight engineer, Mac Brazel, 1st Lt. Robert Shirkey: The base assistant operations officer, Sgt. Robert Smith: Roswell 1st Air Transport Unit.

Oh, and lets not forget:

Retired Air Force Lt. Colonel Raymond Madson was the Project Officer for the Air Force's "crash test dummy" program from 1956-1960 at Holloman Air Force Base. The program was used by the Air Force to debunk stories of Roswell alien bodies in their 1997 "Case Closed" report, citing Madson as a key witness. However, Madson, in a recent interview, says the crash dummy explanation was nonsense, part of a coverup, and his personal views on the Roswell case were completely misrepresented by the Air Force. Madson instead believes that an extraterrestrial crash actually happened and that the alien bodies were stored for a period of time at Wright-Patterson AFB. This was based on his service in the early 1950s at Wright-Patterson and speaking to "others who would have been positioned to know" that there was a "very secure facility" at the base where the recovered bodies were stored. His wife was also employed at the base in the early 1950s in the medical laboratory. Madson said she was told by coworkers about child-sized beings "from another world" who had crashed to Earth sometime prior to her employment and brought to the base to be studied. [34]

You state I am derailing this thead, because it questions your beliefs, but you back none of your claims up with hard evidence either. You supplied "testemony" from sources, when I discouted those, with good reasons that are easy to understand, which seems to be your only real case, you ignored it and contiue to ask me to offer proof without supplying any yourself aside from the "testimony". I provide two quotes which you don't happen to agree with so you discount those, even thogh one supports your case.

Testimony is the basis on which our legal system is founded. This has nothing to with beliefs or agreement. Evidence either stacks up or it doesn't. You are using outdated press clippings and personal opinions as the basis for your argument. I asked you for credentials because your paragraphs are piling up basic spelling errors. I'm trying to get a lock the educational skills of who I am debating

I have an open mind, as I said I once was a strong supporter of the Roswell incident as an alien crash, but then I started to look at it more objectively and opened myself up to all possibilities, and it just does not add up with it being an alien crash site. There are many other beter stories that are more of a possiblitity, but this one I no longer believe is.

Again, thats your opinion. If you can provide me with any sourced material of crashed top secret craft at Roswell before or after july 1947, that would go along way toward giving your argument some credibility.

In order to be objective, you must look at the case from all angles, not just a narowminded point of view, that is how you deny ignorance which is the main purpose of this site.

Narrow-minded would be completely discounting the corroborating testimony of the witnesses, military and non-military, which is pretty much what you are doing. By your logic, all of them, despite some not knowing each other, would have to be in collusion. Hardly a balanced perspective.

It is clear you need some educating on this topic beyond your newspaper clippings. I recommend you start here

[edit on 30-4-2009 by NightVision]

reply to post by AlienCarnage


1. Why would the government still keep Roswell a secret if it was one of ours?

2. Why would the base commander give permission to tell the story of the flying disk to the newspapers if it was one of our Top Secret craft? The base commander would of known about that one.

I was also in the military and the Roswell case is one that will not go away. I know how they work, especially in the logistics and maintenance areas. The above questions are valid if was one of ours, as it would not have been told to the press.

There are many other cases in which a craft with alien beings was sighted, and Lonnie Zamora comes to mind immediately.