Fox sanitizes 9/11 video archive to conceal perp?

Originally posted by evil incarnate

Originally posted by SPreston

posted by evil incarnate

So that little box over his face changed his height and build as well? Do you know what software they are using because I would love to get a copy.

Corel Video Studio or Adobe Premiere or Photoshop or even Paint Shop Pro would do a good job. Unfortunately, some of the 9-11 perp photoshopping seems to have been done with Microsoft Windows Paint, which would be more adequate for kindergartners and finger painting.

But then nobody ever accused the Inside Job 9-11 perps of being geniuses did they? Look at the sloppy staging and evidence planting by the FBI. J Edgar would be proud; and so would the Three Stooges.

Apparently you completely missed my question. I have all of the programs you listed and not one of them can change a persons build, height, and the shape and size of the persons body parts in relation to each other. There is no "shorter and hunched with a much shorter neck" effect in any of those programs. Yes they are great for blurring a persons face but none of those programs can do all of the other things I am talking about.

I am usually 100% on your side with your posts. This one is not one of those times. The man in the video is NOT ROB RIGGLE. It is not. Can you prove that it is?

No.

Until then, you should all refrain from claiming it is him. That is guilty until proven innocent and that is not how America is supposed to work and I for one will not take part or support it in any way.

Please actually read my question about the software again and then think about why your answer is completely off the mark.

Digitizing won't change his height, but a green screen will.

Leventhal is the only real person in that shot that is actually on the street. He is the only one with actual sun light on his face. They took his footage from an interview and put harley man in, hence the weird black guy who comes up and hangs out in the scene. Leventhal doesn't even react to him (the black guy) and he turns as if he is going to brawl, yet leventhal doesn't even flinch, nor have any shadow cast on him from the black gentleman. He was inserted to hide the green screen shadowing from Riggle.

When you green screen you have to do a thing called keying, hence the green screen. You want your back ground to be all the same color, but shadows can bleed if you don't key them perfectly. They did not have time to do that, so they put in the black guy to stand where Harleys shadow is, layering over it with the the Black guy to cover it. It worked, accept they didn't count on people finding the footage and going through it frame by frame...big mistake on their part.

Harley could have been 4 feet tall, it wouldn't of mattered because he is inserted. Check out Basic Keying by my man Andrew Kramer to see how this is accomplished by even an amateur video enthusiast, though he is not, to get the idea of what is happening in the harley man footage.

Peace

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

Harley could have been 4 feet tall, it wouldn't of mattered because he is inserted. Check out Basic Keying by my man Andrew Kramer to see how this is accomplished by even an amateur video enthusiast, though he is not, to get the idea of what is happening in the harley man footage.

Peace

Allright. Here is my last word on this. Do not try to explain green screens to me. You have a website to reference. I can only assume it is because you needed to look for one. Do you know what I do for a living? Let me just say that your little speach is great for someone who just got a copy of adobe after effects but I do not need a lecture on things I have been doing for years from an armchair amature.

Believe whatever you like. I am not telling you what to believe.

My problem is with this one single statement -"Harley man is Rob Riggle." That is guilt without due process. That is libel. That is something he can sue you for saying. Why? Because it is against the law to state that someone has done something they have not.

Here in America, we are innocent until proven guilty. I think you guys need to move to a country that adheres to your guilt until proven innocent ways.

I truly hope you either figure out what it means to be American or get out of my country.

Thank you.

Originally posted by evil incarnate
My problem is with this one single statement -"Harley man is Rob Riggle." That is guilt without due process. That is libel.

Couldn't it be just a case of mistaken identity? Since you have said the previous post was your last word on the matter, I will assume you agree. I'm surprised. You are not as unreasonable as I had thought.

That is something he can sue you for saying. Why? Because it is against the law to state that someone has done something they have not.

This is another example of your rush to judgement, pot call the kettle black, style. Saying that someone is someone is not saying that someone has done something, except in your own personal America, of course.

Here in America, we are innocent until proven guilty. I think you guys need to move to a country that adheres to your guilt until proven innocent ways.

In America as everywhere else in the world, the guilty are guilty from the moment they commit a crime, whether they are convicted in court or not. They can say they are innocent, but if they have committed a crime they are guilty.

That's worldwide and on all planets and galaxies, even in your own personal America, if you ever stop to really think about it, which I doubt, but I guess we'll never know because you have given us your last word on the topic.

I truly hope you either figure out what it means to be American or get out of my country.

I have another message for you, absent strawman. America is your country only in the sense that you live there and are a citizen. Other than that you own squat, except for your personal possessions.

You and all the other lunkheads in the "love it or leave it" camp are perfectly welcome to say "Get off'a my lawn!" but that's where your deportation powers end.

Thank you.

It was a pleasure.

[edit on 7-5-2009 by ipsedixit]

Originally posted by ipsedixit
Couldn't it be just a case of mistaken identity? since you have said the previous post was your last word on the matter, I will assume you agree. I'm surprised. You are not as unreasonable as I had thought.

If it is mistaken identity, then should not the statement be "I THINK Harley Man is Rob Riggle?" Do you not see the vast difference between saying what you think is going on and definitively stating that IS what is going on?

This is another example of your rush to judgement, pot call the kettle black style. Saying that someone is someone is not saying that someone has done something, except in your own personal America, of course.

Actually, if you pay attention to the thread. It says Harley Man is Rob Riggle. It goes on to claim that this is important because he is in on the conspiracy. Have you read this thread?

It does not just say it is him, it says Rob Riggle was part of the 9/11 conspiracy. It says that he is the man in the video and because of that, he is complicit in covering up the murder of 3000 American citizens. I do not think you have read this thread all the way through.

My America? How many Americas are there? If yours is any different, then I hope it is outside of the United States borders.

In America as everywhere else in the world, the guilty are guilty from the moment they commit a crime, whether they are convicted in court or not. They can say they are innocent, but if they have committed a crime they are guilty, whether proven guilty or not. That's worldwide and on all planets and galaxies, even in your own personal America, if you ever stop to really think about it which I doubt, but I guess we'll never know because you have given us your last word on the topic.

WHAT???????????

Ok, either you are clearly stating Rob Riggle committed a crime or you are just babbling nonsense. Yes, if you commit a crime, you are guilty. Do you know Rob Riggle comitted a crime for a fact?

Let me say this again because apparently you missed it in civics class.

IN AMERICA, you are INNOCENT until proven guilty in a court of law. If you have comitted a crime, you may be guilty but you cannot be judged guilty and condemned without due process. Intrinsically guilty or not, you must assume they are innocent until it has been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. That is how it works here, I am sorry to tell you but that is just the way things are in the America I live in. Can you please clear up where I am wrong?

I have another message for you, absent strawman. America is your country only in the sense that you live there and are a citizen. Other than that you own squat, except for your personal possessions.

Actually it is my country because I respect it and adhere to its laws and enjoy its benefits. I am a part of the American society. That is what makes it my country.

You and all the other lunkheads in the love it or leave it camp are perfectly welcome to say "Get off'a my lawn!" but that's where your deportation powers end.

I am not part of any crowd. I did not once say love it or leave it. I simply said that this is the way America works and if you do not want to take part in that, then go. Do you think you can run around murdering people, stealing and raping all you like here in America? Why do you get to pick and choose which laws to obey? What gives you that amazing power?

posted by evil incarnate

IN AMERICA, you are INNOCENT until proven guilty in a court of law. If you have comitted a crime, you may be guilty but you cannot be judged guilty and condemned without due process. Intrinsically guilty or not, you must assume they are innocent until it has been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. That is how it works here, I am sorry to tell you but that is just the way things are in the America I live in. Can you please clear up where I am wrong?

Do you know this to be true beyond any doubt? Do people get treated like they are 'innocent until proven guilty' during and after the arrest or during pretrial incarceration?

Were the innocent prisoners at Gitmo, 80% of whom were eventually released without charges and without apology and without renumeration, treated like they were 'innocent until proven guilty'?

Originally posted by SPreston
Do you know this to be true beyond any doubt? Do people get treated like they are 'innocent until proven guilty' during and after the arrest or during pretrial incarceration?

Were the innocent prisoners at Gitmo, 80% of whom were eventually released without charges and without apology and without renumeration, treated like they were 'innocent until proven guilty'?

See, now that is the Spreston I know and love. Of course people are not treated that way. I see trials all the time that are basically, he is guilty, lets spend 4 weeks showing you how guilty. If you read any of my posts about gitmo, you would know how I feel and that I agree with you 1000%

The problem is that in America, we say we are a great country for so many reasons, one of which is our "innocent until proven guilty" legal system. Does it work perfectly? Not even close. Will I just start condemning people myself since bad cops and bad soldiers do it? No. I am better than that. I know what the ideal is and see it trampled constantly but I can live up to that ideal and I do.

I see bad people do bad things that amount to a guilty until proven innocent culture. I am better than that because I know what America stands for. Why do you feel that since the system does not work perfectly, that you might as well join them in the muck? Sounds to me like you are advertising for the wrong bandwagon and I am not jumping on.

I believe America was great and can be great again. I believe that if everyone lived the way Americans should here, things would be much better. I refuse to toss my integrity out the window though because Lindy England or whatever liked to stack naked prisoners and point. I am so sorry for you. Sounds to me like you hate the U.S. Why are you still here? Why can't you be better than those animals at gitmo?

Originally posted by evil incarnate
If it is mistaken identity, then should not the statement be "I THINK Harley Man is Rob Riggle?" Do you not see the vast difference between saying what you think is going on and definitively stating that IS what is going on?

This segment of the discussion is becoming tiresome. Personally, I think there is a good chance that Harley Man and Rob Riggle are the same person. letthereaderunderstand, however, having spent a lot of time in close study of photos of the two of them is convinced that they are one and the same. He is so convinced that he assures us "Rob Riggle is Harley Man. Trust me."

Well, I for one, trust him, but I am still reserving final judgement for the voice analysis.

In the context of the discussion it is perfectly clear where we all stand on the subject. I think you are a nit picker and should realise what letthereaderunderstand is saying in the context of the discussion.

If you were trying to make a libel case in court, you wouldn't have a hope in hell.

By the way, your ATS handle doesn't help you make points in discussions, evil incarnate, and it doesn't even suit you personally. You should be called "the banality of evil, incarnate."

Edit to add: I starred evil incarnate's last post. My opinion of him and his views is improving, but I still think he is being overly harsh on letthereaderunderstand.



[edit on 7-5-2009 by ipsedixit]

Originally posted by ipsedixit


Well, I for one, trust him, but I am still reserving final judgement for the voice analysis.

Trust him? Does he have any proof or evidence? What has he done to research it? Where is the damning evidence? I have not seen any. All I see is people saying that it is for a fact him.

You know as well as I do that none of these people actually know that 100% for a fact.

If anyone here that is so sure about it has that proof, I will be waiting and watching eagerly. I have a feeling it will be a while.

reply to post by evil incarnate

evil incarnate, I don't want to derail the thread but perhaps you could clear something up for me. How did you accumulate -331 points? Were you bad and just kept being bad, digging yourself into a hole? I've never really understood the point system around here.

Other than that, I see the point you are making but I think it is a captious one in context and you are wrongfully smearing other people in the thread by tarring us all with the same brush.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
reply to post by evil incarnate

 

evil incarnate, I don't want to derail the thread but perhaps you could clear something up for me. How did you accumulate -331 points? Were you bad and just kept being bad, digging yourself into a hole? I've never really understood the point system around here.

Other than that, I see the point you are making but I think it is a captious one in context and you are wrongfully smearing other people in the thread by tarring us all with the same brush.

Who did I smear? That is a blatant lie. This must be going around today. Show me who I have smeared and perhaps I will address your post. Until then, you are just plain lying about me. I hope it makes you feel nice to have to lie to put down someone you do not agree with.

I may not be very nice but I am honest. You shoud try it.

Now please show who I smeared or retract that statement.

The only person being smeared here is Rob Riggle.

Originally posted by evil incarnate
Wrong in accusing and convicting. You have said that IT IS Rob Riggle. You have been the judge, jury and executioner. That is not how America works. If you think it is him, you investigate. All you have done is simply say it is him because you think it is him. What logic is that?

I think this smears not only SPreston but everybody in the thread, except for people who have stated that it is not Rob Riggle with even less justification than the people who think it is him.

You also said that letthereaderunderstand was the worst sort of American. Dude have you ever heard of Bernie Madoff?

The whole purpose of this thread is investigation. Many in the thread are convinced that Rob Riggle is Harley Man. Some are certain of it, but the bottom line is that these are opinions expressed in a discussion forum.

If we were in court a lot of what you say might be admissable, but outside of court people are free to express their opinions, even if they express them as certitudes, at least in the context of a discussion forum.

Maybe at some point there will be a legal challenge to that. Maybe ATS site programmers will have to put a new signature under every post, "All of the above is alleged to be true, funny, helpful, informative, or whatever".

I myself would caution letthereaderunderstand to be aware of the doppelganger factor. Despite appearance, connections to the military, placement in Lower Manhattan at the right time, and absent a convincing voice identification, or other witnesses who know more about the Harley Man interview, there is a chance that Harley Man is not Rob Riggle.

I think that you are mainly disturbed by what amounts to a little high-fiving among people who think that the American justice system and government in general has let them down big time.


[edit on 7-5-2009 by ipsedixit]

Originally posted by ipsedixit

Originally posted by evil incarnate
Wrong in accusing and convicting. You have said that IT IS Rob Riggle. You have been the judge, jury and executioner. That is not how America works. If you think it is him, you investigate. All you have done is simply say it is him because you think it is him. What logic is that?

I think this smears not only SPreston but everybody in the thread, except for people who have stated that it is not Rob Riggle with even less justification than the people who think it is him.

Your very clearly have no idea what a smear is. What I did was state FACT in repeating someone else's beliefs. Whatever you want to think it is, calling it a smear is just funny.

You also said that letthereaderunderstand was the worst sort of American. Dude have you ever heard of Bernie Madoff?

Yep. He is the worst sort of American too. What is your point?

The whole purpose of this thread is investigation. Many in the thread are convinced that Rob Riggle is Harley Man. Some are certain of it, but the bottom line is that these are opinions expressed in a discussion forum.

No...they have stated it as a FACT over and over again. I already explained the difference between "it is him" and "I think it is him." Do we need to go over this again?

If we were in court a lot of what you say might be admissable, but outside of court people are free to express their opinions, even if they express them as certitudes, at least in the context of a discussion forum.

No. It is against the law to write down and publish something defamatory without factual proof. Internet forums most certainly apply. Perhaps you should go to your library and look into libel law. You will see that the fellas you are so fast to stick up for could be sued by Rob.

Wouldn't that be great? They put themselves in the position where it is possible that they are taken away from the environment they wish to investigate for a long time. I just do not see how being tied up in court is going to help when all you have to do is admit that you do NOT KNOW FOR A FACT, as has been said.

Maybe at some point blah blah blah i already coverd this nonsense you do not know anything about the law back to you....blah blah blah blah blah blah



there is a chance that Harley Man is not Rob Riggle.

That is all you had to say. Did it hurt?

I think that you are mainly disturbed by what amounts to a little high-fiving among people who think that the American justice system and government in general has let them down big time.

You need to stop thinking it is not doing you any favors.

I believe the governement has failed miserably in many ways for a long time. I do not have a problem with that premise. What I have a problem with is that a good man who does much to support the poor grunts who are thrown into this pointless war is called out on treason charges but some internet UFO forum junkie.

Got it?

Wait a minute. Now I get it. You think we are overstating the case against Riggle, or perhaps manufacturing one out of thin air. I've always thought that there was a case against Harley Man, at least enough of a one to warrant a closer look at him.

But you are saying that we will have to do that without putting forward a Harley Man suspect? That's like one of those old locked room mysteries only in this case we have to figure out who Harley Man is without actually naming anyone.

Very clever. I underestimated you. Maybe you are aptly named. Are you a member of the bar?

Originally posted by evil incarnate

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

Harley could have been 4 feet tall, it wouldn't of mattered because he is inserted. Check out Basic Keying by my man Andrew Kramer to see how this is accomplished by even an amateur video enthusiast, though he is not, to get the idea of what is happening in the harley man footage.

Peace

Allright. Here is my last word on this. Do not try to explain green screens to me. You have a website to reference. I can only assume it is because you needed to look for one. Do you know what I do for a living? Let me just say that your little speach is great for someone who just got a copy of adobe after effects but I do not need a lecture on things I have been doing for years from an armchair amature.

Believe whatever you like. I am not telling you what to believe.

My problem is with this one single statement -"Harley man is Rob Riggle." That is guilt without due process. That is libel. That is something he can sue you for saying. Why? Because it is against the law to state that someone has done something they have not.

Here in America, we are innocent until proven guilty. I think you guys need to move to a country that adheres to your guilt until proven innocent ways.

I truly hope you either figure out what it means to be American or get out of my country.

Thank you.

Are you upset because you personally hold that the Harley man is a plant, therefore if it were Riggle, he is implicated? I really don't get your point, because I have said over and over again that he is innocent and will remain that way. I haven't brought any charge against him other then believing Harley man and Riggle are the same person and I shy not away from my statement.

I don't know what you do for a living, but by your remarks, I would have to gather that you do some sort of work with video. If so, I didn't know that and still don't as you didn't actually state what you do, so there is no reason to take offense. I left a link to a site hoping it would help you, but if you are an expert, then forgive me as I didn't mean to waste your time nor offend you in any way. I meant to give someone who I have no idea about an example of what I was saying, that is all.

Like I said, violence begets violence, so I won't label you anything you haven't labeled yourself or me. Harley man and Riggles voice is the same. That is what I went off of from the beginning, before analysis, and that is what cemented it for me. This has been shown to be true in preliminary analysis and can be seen in this thread if you have not yet seen it. Harley Man has never stepped forward, so why would Riggle admit to it even if he could? It would be like Goering saying, "yep, I lit Rieghtstag...it was me, you guys were right, take me to jail"...Would and Will never happen. Can you trust me there?

Are you saying that I am any worse then someone calling out the previous administration for being part in 9-11 having ZERO links back to them that are admissible as evidence in a court of law? Are you saying "Let us not tolerate any wild conspirasy theories" as the past commander in chief has? Why are you not trumpeting the innocence of those men as well? Where is your pity for Cheney, Rice, and Bush? Why are you not standing up for Usama who's first statements were that he had no part in it? Why are you not standing up for Saddam who had no WMD's nor was harboring any Taliban or Al-Qeada until AFTER our unprovoked invasion for which he is now dead? Do you say, "So what?" like President Bush, smacking every tax payer in the face, yourself included?

Perhaps I lack tact and am not the guy you would want to be neighbors with, but I'll never tell you to leave OUR country for disagreeing with me or how I call it. It's your right freely being born here, never having to earn your freedom, but having it as a gift from the people of which you are one individual, blessed to be born here. I see ours as a disagreement, but nothing warranting banishment or title as "the worst american". I'd put my neck on the line for your right to say that about me even when I have said nothing of you, just as I have put my neck on the line for stating what I see as a fact about Harley man and Riggle which is backed up with real evidence (ie. Voice Analysis, Video Tampering, His Placement and Duties) instead of theories.

I wish you peace, I wish Riggle peace, I wish the victims of 9-11 peace. Believe it or not, we are on the same side.

ltru

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
Are you upset because you personally hold that the Harley man is a plant, therefore if it were Riggle, he is implicated? I really don't get your point, because I have said over and over again that he is innocent and will remain that way. I haven't brought any charge against him other then believing Harley man and Riggle are the same person and I shy not away from my statement.

No. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

My problem is with you or anyone stating as fact that Harley Man is indeed Rob Riggle with no proof.

Are you still having trouble discerning opinion for statements of fact?

Please just let me know what the issue is here so I can help you out.

As for the rest of your post...great, you think you have a list of things that convinces you. Good. Do you have any solid proof? No.

I will say it one more time for you. Read slowly.

My problem is with people stating that Harley Man is for a fact Rob Riggle. Unless they can prove it, they need to qualify that statement to say they THINK it is. Saying that it is him, is libel untill you can prove it is him.

Understand yet?

Perhaps I lack tact and am not the guy you would want to be neighbors with, but I'll never tell you to leave OUR country for disagreeing with me or how I call it. It's your right freely being born here, never having to earn your freedom, but having it as a gift from the people of which you are one individual, blessed to be born here.

I did not tell you to leave the country because I do not agree with you. I said that here in the U.S. we consider ourselves better than the rest of the world for many reasons, one of which is our policy of innocent until proven guilty.

Now, if you want to say that this man is rob riggle without proof that it is...well that is guilty until proven innocent. That is not how the U.S. works and if you want to condemn people without due process, I suggest you find a country that does not mind doing things that way. Here in America, we do not do that. It is not only against our policy as a people, it is against the law. So... like i said, if you do not like how the U.S. works........

[edit on 8-5-2009 by evil incarnate]

reply to post by evil incarnate


It's in the Diane Sawyer piece. The video.

reply to post by evil incarnate


Evil, It's not him...It's the one armed man. I'm officially changing my story to the one armed man, I just found this little thing interesting. As you can see, it clearly implicates the one armed man....Peace



Finkel...Einhorn....Einhorn....Finkel.....OMG

Finkel is Einhorn.......Ace Ventura

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by evil incarnate

 

Evil, It's not him...It's the one armed man. I'm officially changing my story to the one armed man, I just found this little thing interesting. As you can see, it clearly implicates the one armed man....Peace

I do not even get the joke. I get the reference to the fugitive but what is funny about the post? What does this response mean? Do you even see what you are doing wrong, AGAIN.

You say it IS the one armed man. Can you prove that or did you mean to qualify it with "i think?"

I swear we have been over this.

Whatever your response is supposed to mean, you will have to clear that up. In the meantime, Thanks for posting a clip yet again that looks nothing like rob riggle.

Originally posted by evil incarnate
You say it IS the one armed man. Can you prove that or did you mean to qualify it with "i think?"

Maybe he's saying "it is the one armed man" the way people, you know, see a bearded guy wearing glasses on the street and say, "it is Michael Scoggins".

Then someone like you says, "no you can't say that about him because that would be character assassination". Some people are certain of their perceptions. Some people think a colour is purple and some people think it is violet, but both express their certitude.

I swear we have been over this.

Some people would swear just as vehemently that we are breaking new ground. Heraclitus (or one of those other old guys) said we never step into the same river twice.

Whatever your response is supposed to mean, you will have to clear that up. In the meantime, Thanks for posting a clip yet again that looks nothing like rob riggle.

Who is Rob Riggle? That is really the question.

[edit on 8-5-2009 by ipsedixit]

Originally posted by ipsedixit

Originally posted by evil incarnate
You say it IS the one armed man. Can you prove that or did you mean to qualify it with "i think?"

Maybe he's saying "it is the one armed man" the way people, you know, see a bearded guy wearing glasses on the street and say, "it is Michael Scoggins".

Then someone like you says, "no you can't say that about him because that would be character assassination". Some people are certain of their perceptions. Some people think a colour is purple and some people think it is violet, but both express their certitude.

I am only willing to reply to so much stupidity.

The one armed man is a specific reference to an old television show. Keep up.

I said "character assasination?" can you quote that for me?

I really really hate to be the one to tell you this but yes, here in America, writing that someone specific did something they did not is subject to libel laws because it is intentionally telling a misstruth. He may simply be mistaken but then that is why our justice system is designed to assume innocence until proof of guilt is established.

Awesome how all you guys are so willing to just toss the parts of America you do not like out the window.

You can NOT publish in writing an intentional lie about someone specific. The reason it is illegal is to keep people in check. If he can say that it most certainly is Rob Riggle without any proof at all that it is...then I can write an article about how I have seen you going to petting farms and copulating with the sheep.

What is the difference between purple and violet?