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Torture? I went through worse in basic training

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posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:29 PM
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I'm still waiting for someone, ANYONE, to explain to me why they are defending acts that are in DIRECT CONFLICT WITH OUR CONSTITUTION.

The thibg you are all glossing over here is the fact that the opinion side of this is irrelevant. The fact that it is ILLEGAL and UNCONSTIUTIONAL, is the issue.

I am amazed by all of you "soldiers", who are sworn to protect the constitution, who openly advocate its circumvention.

That is a VERY scary thought, considering you all are *supposed* to be the line of defense.




posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
And do you not see that if America Laid down its weapons and became what you want it to become, that we the US and the rest of the world would be over ran by other nations?? China, russia or whoever else? Do you want to risk that fact and leave the rest of the world in these people hands? Or would you rather The west stay out there and perhaps try and make a difference in through talk or war? I gaurantee you the minute we back down someone else will rear there ugly head and enslave all of us. Hitler was appeased many time by the brits and France. America ignored him look what happen. Do we really want to risk another Hitler?


Ah, yes. The preemptive war against people who may or may not exist. Such a lovely justification for the continued subjugation of the world beneath the American War-machine.

There is no way to eliminate war; but to think we must be endlessly at war just to prevent another Hitler? That's ridiculous.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
I'm still waiting for someone, ANYONE, to explain to me why they are defending acts that are in DIRECT CONFLICT WITH OUR CONSTITUTION.

The thibg you are all glossing over here is the fact that the opinion side of this is irrelevant. The fact that it is ILLEGAL and UNCONSTIUTIONAL, is the issue.

I am amazed by all of you "soldiers", who are sworn to protect the constitution, who openly advocate its circumvention.

That is a VERY scary thought, considering you all are *supposed* to be the line of defense.


Why don't you join up and show us how soldiering is supposed to be done then?

or

Would you rather sit on your couch and critisize?



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:32 PM
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Propaganda at work again. This whole farse of taking my words out of context, changing them around, etc, is really quite pathetic.

I NEVER said anything about laying down weapons. I spoke of NOT WALKING OUTSIDE OF THE CONSTITUTION, which is what you are advocating.

Bottom line, you do not know the document you are SWORN TO PROTECT. That much is obvious.

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 24-4-2009 by Gemwolf]



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by jd140

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
I'm still waiting for someone, ANYONE, to explain to me why they are defending acts that are in DIRECT CONFLICT WITH OUR CONSTITUTION.

The thibg you are all glossing over here is the fact that the opinion side of this is irrelevant. The fact that it is ILLEGAL and UNCONSTIUTIONAL, is the issue.

I am amazed by all of you "soldiers", who are sworn to protect the constitution, who openly advocate its circumvention.

That is a VERY scary thought, considering you all are *supposed* to be the line of defense.


Why don't you join up and show us how soldiering is supposed to be done then?

or

Would you rather sit on your couch and critisize?


Ah yes, the old cliche response. You cannot own up to the fact that you took an oath and are not living up to it, so you turn it around on me.

You have no idea what I do. You have no idea how involved I am. That you imply that the only people working for America are the soldiers is downright hilarious.


[edit on 4/23/2009 by cautiouslypessimistic]



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:38 PM
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I may not be given too many (read no) stars for saying this but ummm...

American TORTURE? I have to laugh a bit.

Ya think?

I mean, comparitively is a little irrelevant. But Saddam's meat grinder, being worked to death, low level tazer-sticks...they're not American torture methods.

More like blaring Amy Whitehouse over high quality sound systems and leaving the lights on while the prisoners are trying to sleep. Yeah, so they turn it up a notch when they thought someone had seriously significant information. Please. You know, Americans are the only people on earth who if they said "This is gonna hurt me as much as it hurts you", I'd actually believe that was a possibility?

If I object to torture it's more because under real torture people will say anything. Also, it doesn't do good things to the morale of the personnel. Maybe they're finding that out with the high rates of veteran's suicide.

Another thing about American torture - so called. I think it's premised on clinging to a stereotype image of the target (so called) which is more fear-driven than anything. These terrorists sense the fear behind such kind of interrogations: they're expert torturers themselves, they have a highly developed sense of when someone is coming from fear, or whether the torturer is taking pleasure in exerting power (like they do, the terrorists, when they've tortured).



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
And do you not see that if America Laid down its weapons and became what you want it to become, that we the US and the rest of the world would be over ran by other nations?? China, russia or whoever else? Do you want to risk that fact and leave the rest of the world in these people hands? Or would you rather The west stay out there and perhaps try and make a difference in through talk or war? I gaurantee you the minute we back down someone else will rear there ugly head and enslave all of us. Hitler was appeased many time by the brits and France. America ignored him look what happen. Do we really want to risk another Hitler?


Ah, yes. The preemptive war against people who may or may not exist. Such a lovely justification for the continued subjugation of the world beneath the American War-machine.

There is no way to eliminate war; but to think we must be endlessly at war just to prevent another Hitler? That's ridiculous.


Did we read the same post? Where in there did it state we should preemptive attack other nations? I mean for real, I bet you would be the first one who would run and hide when/If this nation was to be attacked and war fought on her land. I mean for real are you freaking serious? Lets all be a bunch of Pacifists. Forget that I for one am not willing to see a world where America, GB, Aussies become a bunch wimps and open the door for the russians, chinnesse or whoever else to run the show. You know what if that happens you can come stay with me Ill protect and carry you out of harms way. Cause thats just how we roll.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic
 


Never said anything about soldiers are the only ones working for America.

I simply stated that since you don't like the way we do things that maybe you should lace up your boots and show us how it is done.

You can't lead by example from the rear.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:44 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by platosallegory
This is not torture.

If this was torture then I was tortured at basic training for 8 weeks. Air Assault school is worse than anything I've seen in these memo's (101st).



Ah Ha! Gotcha! I'm calling you out platosallegory! Yes you! Yor full of it.
I knew it!
I aksed you 3 simple questions yesterday on this (similar) thread yesterday:
Where did you go 2 basic?
What's your MOS?
And (
) what was your "field exercise" REALLY called in basic?


www.abovetopsecret.com...

You ingonered. Now I know why.


You were never in the Army. A soldier knows another soldier....one of the first things they instill in your head is "SUCK IT UP SOLDIER." and yet you were fussing about doing push-ups in the rain and being near bugs.
I don't think so. A soldier wouldn't complain about stupid [SNIP] like tis bro.

How do I know you weren't in the Army?

FORT CAMPBELL DOES NOT DO BASIC TRAINING!!
Here's a list of bases that do basic training in US ARMY.

Fort Benning, GA (where I went) 11Bravo in da house! Hua!
Fort Jackson, SC
Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri
Fort Sill, OK (home of artllery)
and last but not least......Fort Knox, KY

Ohhhhhhhh, and 101st is AIRBORNE not AIR ASSAULT!!

I was in 95, and you had to be atleat an E-3 (at that time) to even consider Air Assault.

LIAR LIAR LIAR! SHAME ON YOU!

As a veteran of 82nd Airborne, and I'll speak for the rest of the vets here...shame on you. Embarrasing yourself, and the United States Army.

Leg.

Your credibility is shot kid. Sorry I called you out, but I had to.


*Airborne!*

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.
Mod Note: Terms & Conditions Of Use – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 24-4-2009 by Gemwolf]



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet

Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
And do you not see that if America Laid down its weapons and became what you want it to become, that we the US and the rest of the world would be over ran by other nations?? China, russia or whoever else? Do you want to risk that fact and leave the rest of the world in these people hands? Or would you rather The west stay out there and perhaps try and make a difference in through talk or war? I gaurantee you the minute we back down someone else will rear there ugly head and enslave all of us. Hitler was appeased many time by the brits and France. America ignored him look what happen. Do we really want to risk another Hitler?


Ah, yes. The preemptive war against people who may or may not exist. Such a lovely justification for the continued subjugation of the world beneath the American War-machine.

There is no way to eliminate war; but to think we must be endlessly at war just to prevent another Hitler? That's ridiculous.


Did we read the same post? Where in there did it state we should preemptive attack other nations?

Since you missed it. It's bolded now.


I mean for real, I bet you would be the first one who would run and hide when/If this nation was to be attacked and war fought on her land. I mean for real are you freaking serious? Lets all be a bunch of Pacifists.

Attack the person when you can't attack his points; I believe that's quite analogous to the "War on Terror" itself

If everyone were pacifists; what would be wrong with pacifism?


Forget that I for one am not willing to see a world where America, GB, Aussies become a bunch wimps and open the door for the russians, chinnesse or whoever else to run the show. You know what if that happens you can come stay with me Ill protect and carry you out of harms way. Cause thats just how we roll.


No thank you, I have my weapons. I assure you if an occupier rolls through my neighborhood, I'll be shooting at them.

Attacking the person instead of the points is a very crude and improper way to share your opinion.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic
 


Where in the constitution does it say we can't waterboard or put a guy in a room with a bug?

You don't understand the Constitution.

The Constitution gives the President broad powers during times of war.

This is because the Founders knew that it was more important to protect America and American lives than it was to live up to some pie in the sky ideal when that's not the real world.

Sometimes we might come up to the line and even cross it, but it's better that we correct ourselves than having the enemy correct us with bombs going off all over the place.

You or the left in Congress will do nothing but cry if we are attacked again.

This is just common sense.

The left is more worried about being liked rather than protecting American lives.

I think you need to read the Constitution again.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by dooper


Let's get this out of the way. Under international law, a non-uniformed combatant has zero rights, and once he picks up a weapon instantly becomes a non-legal entity, and is due zero protections under any of the Geneva Conventions.



This is actually a myth, that the ignorant use to justify torture.

I suggest you read up on international law before you begin to cite it, as you are only making yourself seem foolish.




On December 10, 1948 the United Nations General Assembly adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR). Article 5 states, "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment."[6]


Source




Article 2 of the convention prohibits torture, and requires parties to take effective measures to prevent it in any territory under its jurisdiction. This prohibition is absolute and non-derogable. "No exceptional circumstances whatsoever"[5] may be invoked to justify torture, including war, threat of war, internal political instability, public emergency, terrorist acts, violent crime, or any form of armed conflict.[6] Torture cannot be justified as a means to protect public safety or prevent emergencies.[6] Neither can it be justified by orders from superior officers or public officials.[7] The prohibition on torture applies to all territories under a party's effective jurisdiction, and protects all people under its effective control, regardless of citizenship or how that control is exercised.[6] Since the Conventions entry into force, this absolute prohibition has become accepted as a principle of customary international law.[6] Because it is often difficult to distinguish between cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment and torture, the Committee regards Article 16's prohibition of such treatment as similarly absolute and non-derogable.[6] The other articles of part I lay out specific obligations intended to implement this absolute prohibition by preventing, investigating and punishing acts of torture.[6]


Source


So as you can clearly see, torture, and other inhuman or degrading treatment, is prohibited for all people on earth.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by platosallegory
 


and more worried about looking like they are right. Cus hey, if you cant be as tough as them, at least try to look smarter. that has to count doesnt it???

still... torture is bad. i dont want to be tortured, but everytime my girlfriend wants to watch american idol or trading spaces, i feel like im right there in gitmo with them terrorists



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic
 


Never said anything about soldiers are the only ones working for America.

I simply stated that since you don't like the way we do things that maybe you should lace up your boots and show us how it is done.

You can't lead by example from the rear.


You sure about that? There are pleny of armchair generals aroung here.

Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 24-4-2009 by Gemwolf]



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic
 


Never said anything about soldiers are the only ones working for America.

I simply stated that since you don't like the way we do things that maybe you should lace up your boots and show us how it is done.

You can't lead by example from the rear.


You are silly man. You said that all I am doing is sitting back and criticising, and that the only way for me to be productive is to lace em up.

The flaw in your logic is that people like me work toward positive action, not violence. I am not a hypocrite, and therefore, could not join the armed services.

There are plenty of ways to take positive action without engaging in violence.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by Ben Niceknowinya
 




Your credibility is shot kid. Sorry I called you out, but I had to.


thank you

this has all been bad enough - without it being based on an out and out lie

good to know



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:54 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic
 


Never said anything about soldiers are the only ones working for America.

I simply stated that since you don't like the way we do things that maybe you should lace up your boots and show us how it is done.

You can't lead by example from the rear.


You are silly man. You said that all I am doing is sitting back and criticising, and that the only way for me to be productive is to lace em up.

The flaw in your logic is that people like me work toward positive action, not violence. I am not a hypocrite, and therefore, could not join the armed services.

There are plenty of ways to take positive action without engaging in violence.


Why dont you run for office then? If you are a man who could bring true peace to the planet you have my undying support? But beware of the boggeyman in the background.



posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by Ben Niceknowinya
 


You really needed that to know he isn't military?

I came to that conclusion from his first post. Then again its been a while since you was in.





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