Torture? I went through worse in basic training

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet

 

Dont take it personal bud. You will see that a lot from people on the far left, they try to manipulate facts and distort. Then when you provide the facts they dont like, they start attacking you personally.

I have stated in a few posts on here the hard facts both in the geneva convention and, the fact that the UDHR is not a law binding document, its set as a guideline, so.......infact, no laws have been broken. They dont like that so they start in on other things, insulting intelligence etc.

If you like, people, i can post AGAIN. Just because you dont like the facts, doesnt mean they are anything less

I love this. Let's just ignore the fact that the Geneva Convention is secondary to constitutional law. Typical.

What does the geneva convention have to do with the constitution?

EVERYTHING. Good lord....go get educated. the geneva convention treaty CANNOT supercede the constitution, so therefore, it has EVERYTHING to do with the constitution.

(Folks, this is exactly what I was talking about. Choosing only portions, out of context)

You choose only what you want to hear. It was very kind of you to quote the text of the Eighth Amendment, and right there is your answer. Apparently I was correct, and you were incorrect.

Read it again, and what does it say right after the fifth word?

Come on, what is the sixth word? OH my God!

. . . EXCEPT AS A PUNISHMENT . . .

So slavery is in fact still permitted, as a punishment. We find that prisoners have no say in their location, conditions of imprisonment, on and on.

You really should go take a reading course.

It will open an entire new world for you.

reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic


Yes it is and The Department of Justice reviewed the authorized methods extensively and determined them to be lawful.

If the procedures are determined to be lawful, and people on the left and on the right give the go ahead for this, then im sorry but you dont have a leg to stand on.

Originally posted by dooper
(Folks, this is exactly what I was talking about. Choosing only portions, out of context)

You choose only what you want to hear. It was very kind of you to quote the text of the Eighth Amendment, and right there is your answer. Apparently I was correct, and you were incorrect.

Read it again, and what does it say right after the fifth word?

Come on, what is the sixth word? OH my God!

. . . EXCEPT AS A PUNISHMENT . . .

So slavery is in fact still permitted, as a punishment. We find that prisoners have no say in their location, conditions of imprisonment, on and on.

You really should go take a reading course.

It will open an entire new world for you.

Ugh, you sir are a deflector extraordinare. Slavery, intentured servitude is ILLEGAL in this country. Servitude as punishment for a crime is not. You are arguing semantics, and doing a poor job of it.

reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic



Thats only if I belive your argument about "torture" I dont

Nice, OP, 15 pages in about 15 hours.
I got horror stories of my own from boot, not torture!
Seen alot and endured alot, and boot was easy compared to the fleet.
People need to realize that people having bugs, water, excrement, nudity, blah blah blah are normal conditions for alot of the planets population.
To the whiners, grow-up. To the "expose" yellow journalists, your time is coming. To the people that put a civilized country in an untenable, and now compromised position, if the Gov't. won't do it the rest of us will.
Torture is a fact of human history and of warfare, don't like to be treated in that fashion, don't piss us off.

Originally posted by LAUGHING-CAT
Nice, OP, 15 pages in about 15 hours.
I got horror stories of my own from boot, not torture!
Seen alot and endured alot, and boot was easy compared to the fleet.
People need to realize that people having bugs, water, excrement, nudity, blah blah blah are normal conditions for alot of the planets population.
To the whiners, grow-up. To the "expose" yellow journalists, your time is coming. To the people that put a civilized country in an untenable, and now compromised position, if the Gov't. won't do it the rest of us will.
Torture is a fact of human history and of warfare, don't like to be treated in that fashion, don't piss us off.

Ahhhyeah, another fine example of the american way.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic

 

Yes it is and The Department of Justice reviewed the authorized methods extensively and determined them to be lawful.

If the procedures are determined to be lawful, and people on the left and on the right give the go ahead for this, then im sorry but you dont have a leg to stand on.

FREAKING THANK YOU. BUT THE LOONS ON HERE WILL NOT ADMITT TO IT>

reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic

No, NO, NO!

This is NOT semantics. This is that same Constitution you yourself posted.

READ THE WORDS!

Either you cannot read, or you cannot understand.

Either way, it's your problem.

Knowing that we have folks who do not know the law, who it applies to, under what circumstances, and who is excluded, and when, scares the living **** out of me!

We have one fine educational system going.

reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic

Not the "American" way, my friend, the human way.
The way the world has always been, and, like it or not will continue to be.
At least until we can kill off the people that do not like the way I, and here's a big word for you, think.

reply to post by platosallegory


The difference is bub, that you sign up for basic training - a lot of the guys who had this kind of treatment were absolutely innocent. In fact as more and more evidence surfaces, and these guys are being given 'fair trials' and constitutional representation which they were denied under the Bush administration, it seems that a sizeable minority, which may even end up being the majority, were not involved in any kind of terrorist acts, were not enemy combatants and were no threat to the US period.

Just regular Joes - or Ahmeds - who were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Only the 'wrong place' was often their own home or workplace.

I'm all for going after the terrorists, and I've always been pro Afghanistan war and anti Iraq. But the whole Guantanamo Bay episode is a real p*ss stain down America's pants... I hope one day the world can forgive your hypocrisy America because Gitmo was a fine example of the liberty and justice you claimed to be bringing to the middle east.

SERE is worse than what these terrorists endured. SERE during Vietnam, per my father, was a pure beat down! T

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by earthman4

 

I will take your offer. One during my training on active duty I was tortured by MY OWN MEN for the sake of being able to try and resist torture. All the stuff that came out in the MEMOs happened to me and 30 other soldiers like me on that particular week. two THE ENEMY HAS DONE FAR WORSE TO OUR POWS then we will ever do to theirs.

Answer this question you spine-less twitts how many American POWS since this war has started have come back alive?

[edit on 23-4-2009 by poedxsoldiervet]

I'm not going to quote them all, but here is another fine example of this person contradicting himself. Right here, in his own words, he calls water boarding torture. Next, he admits that torture is unconstitutional. Then he goes on for 15 or so pages arguing in favor of it.

This is where we are at today. These are the people that exist in this world and perpetuate the absolutely VILE acts of human history.

And, without going a whole lot further: When a person is convicted of a crime, they forfeit some of their rights as a citizen of this country. This is why servitude is legal for those in incarceration. That is why they do not get to pick where they are quartered. It is unbelievable to me that this even has to be explained. a citizen who retains their rights CANNOT BE PUT INTO SLAVERY (legally).

So yes, you know who you are, you are arguing semantics.

I would like to close by thanking you fellas for note only succeeding in pulling me into one of the most non-sensical, rhetorical debates I've every had the misfortune to participate in on this board, and for absolutely reaffirming my position that there ARE in fact agents of the New World Order(or whatever you'd like to call it) on this board. (they just aren't smart enough to realize they are doing it).

I truly weep for this world.

Edited to reflect the fact that I mispoke when I called the person I quoted the OP. Apparently he still only knows emotional, personal responses.

[edit on 4/23/2009 by cautiouslypessimistic]

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by earthman4

 

I will take your offer. One during my training on active duty I was tortured by MY OWN MEN for the sake of being able to try and resist torture. All the stuff that came out in the MEMOs happened to me and 30 other soldiers like me on that particular week. two THE ENEMY HAS DONE FAR WORSE TO OUR POWS then we will ever do to theirs.

Answer this question you spine-less twitts how many American POWS since this war has started have come back alive?

[edit on 23-4-2009 by poedxsoldiervet]

I'm not going to quote them all, but here is another fine example of the OP contradicting himself. Right here, in his own words, he calls water boarding torture. Next, he admits that torture is unconstitutional. Then he goes on for 15 or so pages arguing in favor of it.

This is where we are at today. These are the people that exist in this world and perpetuate the absolutely VILE acts of human history.

And, without going a whole lot further: When a person is convicted of a crime, they forfeit some of their rights as a citizen of this country. This is why servitude is legal for those in incarceration. That is why they do not get to pick where they are quartered. It is unbelievable to me that this even has to be explained. a citizen who retains their rights CANNOT BE PUT INTO SLAVERY (legally).

So yes, you know who you are, you are arguing semantics.

I would like to close by thanking you fellas for note only succeeding in pulling me into one of the most non-sensical, rhetorical debates I've every had the misfortune to participate in on this board, and for absolutely reaffirming my position that there ARE in fact agents of the New World Order(or whatever you'd like to call it) on this board. (they just aren't smart enough to realize they are doing it).

I truly weep for this world.

Man you truly read what you want to read. Your right I weep for this country to, sad sad sad sad. By the way I wasnt the OP, again get your facts straight.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

Thank Mann for this reply.

This is a non-argument, and I have no idea where the confusion lies. It's like they don't like it, so it must be wrong.

The part I don't like is those who would deny us every tool to prevent innocent deaths. Or the deaths of our fellow soldiers.

No. They rather bury the innocent, than allow one of these guys to get his face washed in a creative manner.


[edit on 23-4-2009 by dooper]

Dude... we're supposed to be the good guys.
We don't sacrifice our ideals in the face of danger. That is why the United States was considered a nation of heroes. And your attitude is why we no longer are.

So...if this is not torture and a resonable way to treat a prisoner you are then saying:

It would be perfectly resonable and acceptable for the same methods to be carried out on our soldiers. Do you agree with this statement?

Keep in mind GW Bush said that if any of our soldiers were tortured etc those that carried it out would be treated as war criminals.

On that note...After WWII we convicted and hanged japanese soldiers who carried out waterboarding on our soldiers because it was torture. Are you now willing to say that was wrong.

Source

You are saying it IS ok to do this to our soliders if they get captured??

Ultimately this is about our own soldiers as well. If we show the world that torture is reasonable then expect the same to come our way. Does that sit well with you since you claim to be a soldier? Be sure to scream "geneva convention" as they are ramming water down your throat and you are wondering if they plan to kill you.

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


This is has to be the funniest post I've read. Show you proof?

If you BELIEVE that a couple hijackers who lived in caves, learned to fly IN THE U.S., then hijacked a few planes and crashed it into the WTC (Buildings that were NEVER meant to collapse because of plane crashes), and in the mean time NO JETS OR SECURITY did ANYTHING about it AT ALL, AND all the cameras, security surveillance, etc were taken by the government for "reasons of national security" and wars were declared on Afghanistan AND Iraq again for 19 nut jobs, then I don't need to show you any proof.

Because the "official" story makes no sense whatsoever.

Good Luck with your beliefs. I really wish you luck! Hopefully one day you can get out of your couch and start doing your own research and find out the truth.

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


I would like to quote America's council on foreign relations, good ol Henry Kissinger:

"Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy"

Now those are your so called American Heroes and Supporters.

If that's the attitude they have towards their own soldiers, then god have mercy.

Originally posted by Pilot303
So...if this is not torture and a resonable way to treat a prisoner you are then saying:

It would be perfectly resonable and acceptable for the same methods to be carried out on our soldiers. Do you agree with this statement?

Keep in mind GW Bush said that if any of our soldiers were tortured etc those that carried it out would be treated as war criminals.

On that note...After WWII we convicted and hanged japanese soldiers who carried out waterboarding on our soldiers because it was torture. Are you now willing to say that was wrong.

Source

You are saying it IS ok to do this to our soliders if they get captured??

Ultimately this is about our own soldiers as well. If we show the world that torture is reasonable then expect the same to come our way. Does that sit well with you since you claim to be a soldier? Be sure to scream "geneva convention" as they are ramming water down your throat and you are wondering if they plan to kill you.

Do you think Matt Maupin was treatede with respect or how about captain Speicher whos body has yet to be returned to us? Or what about the other soldiers who were captured? they are all dead... Understand ? How many of there captives are dead? How many of them have been released after the military decided that they in fact are not a threat or there was no evidence to hold them?

Originally posted by bobbylove321
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet

 

This is has to be the funniest post I've read. Show you proof?

If you BELIEVE that a couple hijackers who lived in caves, learned to fly IN THE U.S., then hijacked a few planes and crashed it into the WTC (Buildings that were NEVER meant to collapse because of plane crashes), and in the mean time NO JETS OR SECURITY did ANYTHING about it AT ALL, AND all the cameras, security surveillance, etc were taken by the government for "reasons of national security" and wars were declared on Afghanistan AND Iraq again for 19 nut jobs, then I don't need to show you any proof.

Because the "official" story makes no sense whatsoever.

Good Luck with your beliefs. I really wish you luck! Hopefully one day you can get out of your couch and start doing your own research and find out the truth.

You mean to tell me the goverment who has bankrupted social security medicare and the a few other goverrment programs? the goverment who has set by and watch as the economy colliapsed. Can possibley pull of attacking there own country? get real lay off the wacky backy. The government it about as inept as they come and they ONLY thing thats stands between this country and the hordes is its military,