Torture? I went through worse in basic training

Originally posted by noangels

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by noangels

 

Hey howd you get my myspace? Do I know you?

No you dont know me my friend,and I wont tell anyone either.Its very easy to trace people online.Your a big dude,i will give you that!
Just be carefull about the militia anti NWO recruiting online,If i can find you within a couple of mins any one can.Peace

LoL. I dont recruit for anything online. I am not sure they exsit. you will have to ssend me a u2u and explain how that was done. If youd would-)

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by drwizardphd

 

I'm not apologizing, but you're the one who isn't reading.

The US Constitution doesn't apply to the military, during the conduct of war, in a foreign nation. The military has it's own laws and rules, and when a soldier violates these rules he's not brought before a US court.

He faces a courts martial, under the Uniform Military Court of Justice. He doesn't do time in a civilian pokey - he'll do time in the stockade!

One more example: When a sniper or a well-positioned shooter gets the drop on an armed enemy, guess what?

He shoots him, and it's not only legal, but it's his duty.

Now if that soldier was under US law, he couldn't do that, now could he?

Get IT!

Waterboarding is not torture, and is not prohibited by the Constitution, on foreign soil, during the conduct of war, conducted by our military and supporting agencies, against non-uniformed personnel.

Splitting legal hairs is an academic exercise primarily practiced by bored minds whose very pettiness enable these fine-haired dissections, as actual productivity is beyond their capability.

From what I've read here, no one on the thread has seen real, honest-to-God torture. I have, and not by US personnel.

Torture is powdered glass forced into the eyes, and later you introduce saline. Torture is slowly pulling teeth without anesthesia. torture is placing soft rubber cups over the ears, slapping the cup hard, shattering the ear drum. And those are a few of the more moderate practices.

Nah. Waterboarding is not torture, although it's certainly uncomfortable.

And don't let anyone think you can't get good information out of someone using certain psychological techniques. They'll spill their guts telling you everything.

Because unlike physical torture, psychological torture is something that no one want to endure again.




[edit on 23-4-2009 by dooper]

[edit on 23-4-2009 by dooper]

Explain to me how a soldier, who is sworn to uphold the Constitution Of this country, is not bound to it? Seems pretty contradictory.

There is no law in the U.S. that supercedes the constitution. Doesnt matter if it is military law, international law, whatever. Here, try readin a bit:
www.usconstitution.net...

Read amendment 8 re:cruel and unusual punishement.

You all are a sad lot.

reply to post by dooper

There's nothing wrong with psychological terror.

couldn't disagree more

believe me - if I could find a way to disagree more - I'd be doing it

physical torture IS psychological torture

the entire point of torture is psychological

once the blood dries up and the wounds heal - you're still left with a tortured mind

to pretend otherwise is just dishonest

there is something very, very wrong with all of it

No blood - no foul.

tell yourself what you need to I suppose

it doesn't make you invisible

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


The UDHR may not be a legally binding document due to the fact that it is a declaration. THE GENEVA CONVENTION HOWEVER, is a totally different story. We dont torture, When you, me, and a lot of other guys on this site put up our right hand we swore we'd protect the American way, and you justifying killing people pointlessly because you found a loophole in the ROE or because "it's in defense of the country" is shameful.

To the OP, as its been said time and time before, you did pushups and ran in the rain? OH NO!!! Now, for example if you're RDC, or division commander, or whatever it was called tripped you and held your head in a mudpuddle to simulate you drowning for 20 to 40 seconds, then I'd say you have a story. But we as recruits can report that stuff to someone higher and the person would get in trouble. You were in no way tortured during boot camp. The worst you had to endure is you had to say youre social security number and division number while in a room filled with cs gas. And to say they could hold their breath is moot, because theyre inverted with water being poored at least up their nose if thier mouth isnt open.

American Soldiers are bound by the constition, I will not speak for the man who said we are not. However we will continue to argue the point that the 8th Admendment does not count here because it has been and still today this being used on US Troops. If it will make you feel better go to gitmo and adopt a terriost bring him to your house feed him girl scout cookies, you and yours can atone for our countrys sin. But when he slits your throats in the middle of the night... I think a told em so would be in order.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis




I do still sleep very well at night knowing that my nation is semi safe. the bad guys are on the run and troopers are still out there whipping some arse. (now if we could start waterboarding everyone responsible for this economic mess Id be one happy camper-)

reply to post by Spiramirabilis




I do still sleep very well at night knowing that my nation is semi safe. the bad guys are on the run and troopers are still out there whipping some arse. (now if we could start waterboarding everyone responsible for this economic mess Id be one happy camper-)

American Soldiers are bound by the constition, I will not speak for the man who said we are not. However we will continue to argue the point that the 8th Admendment does not count here because it has been and still today this being used on US Troops. If it will make you feel better go to gitmo and adopt a terriost bring him to your house feed him girl scout cookies, you and yours can atone for our countrys sin. But when he slits your throats in the middle of the night... I think a told em so would be in order.

So now it is within the power of the military to DECIDE which amendments matter and which dont? Sorry bud, thats not how it works.

You are still making this personal, and I get the feeling the intelligence isnt there to take this debate anywhere else. The only thing you can come back with are emotional responses, even when faced with pure logic.

Keep fear mongering son. Keep buying what they are selling. Make irrational comments, retort with nothing but rhetorical propaganda.

Doesnt change the fact THAT YOU CANNOT DENY THE UNCONSTITUTIONALITY OF THIS.

That this topic is going ANYWHERE else is a testament to your diversion tactics.

If you have anythng of substance to say on this matter, I'm glad to keep debating it. If you want to keep sidestepping it and throwing rhetorical propaganda and fear mongering at me, well, I'll go ahead and take my leave victoriously.

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Spiramirabilis

 

I do still sleep very well at night knowing that my nation is semi safe. the bad guys are on the run and troopers are still out there whipping some arse. (now if we could start waterboarding everyone responsible for this economic mess Id be one happy camper-)

Another example of a "soldier" advocating the trashing of our Constitution.

Be afraid people. Be very afraid.

reply to post by platosallegory


I never considered anything in basic training to be torture. I rather saw it as some paid for adult fun time that improved my physical conditioning. As for someone who said a few pages back that soldiers got to run around in the rain and then go drink some beers with their buds? We didn't get to to that. Not, at least, until the last two weeks. But one day our drill sergeant marched us to a bar on post and we all were ordered to buy two beers each. Even those of us who didn't want to drink beer. Anyway, I and some others didn't drink the beers. We gave them to other soldiers and they had to chug them all down within a few minutes. After they got a good buzz going, the drill sergeant sent those of us who didn't drink beer to sit in the shade, while he worked the hell out of the drinkers in the pit. Hahahaha. Way to ruin a good buzz, Sarge! I really enjoyed basic training and loved the drill sergeants' sense of humor. Nope, no torture there.

Now the Gitmo detainees. Yes, definitely what occured with them was and probably still is torture. Good golly! Just being there is torturous as far as I am concerned. Being held in prison for years, no charges levied against you, and maybe your biggest crime was to piss off a neighbor who then turned you over to the Americans and told them you were a terrorist.

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

American Soldiers are bound by the constition, I will not speak for the man who said we are not. However we will continue to argue the point that the 8th Admendment does not count here because it has been and still today this being used on US Troops. If it will make you feel better go to gitmo and adopt a terriost bring him to your house feed him girl scout cookies, you and yours can atone for our countrys sin. But when he slits your throats in the middle of the night... I think a told em so would be in order.

So now it is within the power of the military to DECIDE which amendments matter and which dont? Sorry bud, thats not how it works.

You are still making this personal, and I get the feeling the intelligence isnt there to take this debate anywhere else. The only thing you can come back with are emotional responses, even when faced with pure logic.

Keep fear mongering son. Keep buying what they are selling. Make irrational comments, retort with nothing but rhetorical propaganda.

Doesnt change the fact THAT YOU CANNOT DENY THE UNCONSTITUTIONALITY OF THIS.

That this topic is going ANYWHERE else is a testament to your diversion tactics.

If you have anythng of substance to say on this matter, I'm glad to keep debating it. If you want to keep sidestepping it and throwing rhetorical propaganda and fear mongering at me, well, I'll go ahead and take my leave victoriously.


I think I am bringing logic to the fight here. you just refuse to agree that waterboarding isnt cruel and unusal. WHEN CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT and COURTS say it isnt against the constition, then who are you to say it is? So maybe you may not want bring emotion in this because you feel the bogeyman is old glory,

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
However we will continue to argue the point that the 8th Admendment does not count here because it has been and still today this being used on US Troops.

This thread has degraded into utter foolishness.

Allow me to summarize your points:

1. Torture violates three bodies of international law, as well as domestic law

2. Torture violates the constitution

3. Because we prepare our soldiers to be tortured, then its ok for us to violate the constitution, three bodies of international law and domestic law, by torturing detainees.

And you go on to call for the waterboarding of American citizens, to put a nice little cherry on top of your stupidity sundae.

What absolute nonsense.

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by Spiramirabilis

 

I do still sleep very well at night knowing that my nation is semi safe. the bad guys are on the run and troopers are still out there whipping some arse. (now if we could start waterboarding everyone responsible for this economic mess Id be one happy camper-)

Another example of a "soldier" advocating the trashing of our Constitution.

Be afraid people. Be very afraid.

Okay where in here did I advocate the trashing of a constitution. But you are right people should be afraid, because people like you want the america to belly up to terriost, and serve the internationail comunity. WHo should they be afraid of?

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


you meant this for me?

:-)

maybe we're all just tired

well just in case, I will say - I'm voting for the fantasy - free and happy people everywhere - nobody bothers nobody else

(now if we could start waterboarding everyone responsible for this economic mess Id be one happy camper-)

I would not be philosophically opposed to your speaking to them very harshly

VERY harshly

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

American Soldiers are bound by the constition, I will not speak for the man who said we are not. However we will continue to argue the point that the 8th Admendment does not count here because it has been and still today this being used on US Troops. If it will make you feel better go to gitmo and adopt a terriost bring him to your house feed him girl scout cookies, you and yours can atone for our countrys sin. But when he slits your throats in the middle of the night... I think a told em so would be in order.

So now it is within the power of the military to DECIDE which amendments matter and which dont? Sorry bud, thats not how it works.

You are still making this personal, and I get the feeling the intelligence isnt there to take this debate anywhere else. The only thing you can come back with are emotional responses, even when faced with pure logic.

Keep fear mongering son. Keep buying what they are selling. Make irrational comments, retort with nothing but rhetorical propaganda.

Doesnt change the fact THAT YOU CANNOT DENY THE UNCONSTITUTIONALITY OF THIS.

That this topic is going ANYWHERE else is a testament to your diversion tactics.

If you have anythng of substance to say on this matter, I'm glad to keep debating it. If you want to keep sidestepping it and throwing rhetorical propaganda and fear mongering at me, well, I'll go ahead and take my leave victoriously.


I think I am bringing logic to the fight here. you just refuse to agree that waterboarding isnt cruel and unusal. WHEN CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT and COURTS say it isnt against the constition, then who are you to say it is? So maybe you may not want bring emotion in this because you feel the bogeyman is old glory,

You once again are making this personal. I never said anything negative about the U.S. Could you lie anymore or put any more words in anyone's mouth? Propaganda only works on the weak minded son (look in the mirror).

So let's forget, for a second, that waterboarding is ABSOLUTELY, cruel and unusual punishment. Take a look at this:
www.foxnews.com...

You honestly contend that this is normal and usual?

I dont want to bring emotion into it, because, as anyone who has studied ANY philiosophy, or has ANY capacity for rational though, knows that emotion clouds the mind. You, my friend, are cloudy.


edit to fix link


[edit on 4/23/2009 by cautiouslypessimistic]

Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
However we will continue to argue the point that the 8th Admendment does not count here because it has been and still today this being used on US Troops.

This thread has degraded into utter foolishness.

Allow me to summarize your points:

1. Torture violates three bodies of international law, as well as domestic law

2. Torture violates the constitution

3. Because we prepare our soldiers to be tortured, then its ok for us to violate the constitution, three bodies of international law and domestic law, by torturing detainees.

And you go on to call for the waterboarding of American citizens, to put a nice little cherry on top of your stupidity sundae.

What absolute nonsense.

What American citizen did I want to waterboard? the crooked bastards who caused this econmic mess? Absurd nothing absurd about that.

Sir you do the same thing. Hide behind your keyboard while I continue to secure America. If I have waterboard a person then I will. If you feel the need to proscute me then bring it on.


Edit- you or anyone else who studys philosphy or history should no better, these types of people will not stop untill they have spread there vilebrand of a beautiful relgion of Islam around the world. They want nothing more to destroy this country (US,UK,AUSSIE, the WEST) I will die first then to allow this to happen. and when the all the warriors like me are dead do you think they will stop at your philopsphy? no they wont if you dont understand that then nothing I see or do will change your mind.

[edit on 23-4-2009 by poedxsoldiervet]

[edit on 24-4-2009 by Gemwolf]

reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic


you or anyone else who studys philosphy or history should no better, these types of people will not stop untill they have spread there vilebrand of a beautiful relgion of Islam around the world. They want nothing more to destroy this country (US,UK,AUSSIE, the WEST) I will die first then to allow this to happen. and when the all the warriors like me are dead do you think they will stop at your philopsphy? no they wont if you dont understand that then nothing I see or do will change your mind.