posted on Apr, 23 2009 @ 01:37 AM
Something about Judaeo–Christian religion that atheists/agnostics don't appear to grasp is that both modern Christians and Jews acknowledge
the existence of Jesus of Nazareth — Jews just don't acknowledge Jesus as the Jewish Messiah. For that matter, even Muslims acknowledge the
existence of Jesus as a prophet, but not as a Messiah. So, the great majority of the world's religions — Judaism, Christianity, and
Islam — all recognize the existence of Jesus.
Christianity, strictly speaking, is a branch of Judaism in that Christians accept Jesus (a Jew) as their Savior. I've had this discussion
with a number of Christians and Jews, including priests and rabbis, and they readily agree on this point. Yeah, Christians are Jews.
Now, as to the OP, there are a couple of things that need clarification: The Pharisees — a powerful Jewish sect that essentially tried
Jesus and subsequently demanded his execution — saw Jesus as a threat to their influence over the hearts and minds of the Jewish community at large.
Notice that the Pharisees didn't kill Jesus themselves...to do so could have damaged their image in the Jewish community, as well. Rather,
they turned him over to the local Roman government for punishment. There is still some little debate as to whether "the Jews" or "the Romans" are
actually responsible for the death of Jesus Christ.
However, if you've read the New Testament and understood it, then you know who killed Christ. It was all of us, it was Mankind's
But "who did it" isn't the point. See, Jesus knew what he was walking into, he knew what his fate was, and he even foretold
it on several occasions, although his disciples didn't always comprehend his meaning. At any time, if Jesus had been in fear for his life, he
could have walked away, taken his disciples and fled to safer ground. But he didn't. Instead, he played his role, so to speak, in a larger
story, even prompting others to play their roles toward a pre-ordained conclusion.
None of the disciples could believe their ears at The Last Supper, for example, when Christ very matter-of-factly told them that one of them
would betray him. Moments later, he matter-of-factly told Judas to go and do what you must do — which must have stunned Judas, who believed
that his deal to surrender Jesus to the Pharisees was a secret.
If anything, Christ was cuing people, steering the script, walking right into his own crucifixion. And that's exactly right, he was.
So there is no way he would "be mad" at the characters playing their parts. Why would he?
I've seen several comedians cranking out jokes about Jesus and The Crucifixion and puzzling as to how this guy getting nailed to a cross equates to
salvation for Mankind. Linear logic just doesn't seem to apply, they contend.
Well, yes, it does, if they knew their Bible.
See, up until the arrival of Jesus on Earth, God tended to deal with people in a pretty abrupt and often harsh fashion. God demanded
sacrifices from his fearful subjects, or else he would look upon them unfavorably and might just smite their asses. Lot of smiting in
the Old Testament, before Jesus arrived on the scene.
Frankly, the God of the Old Testament was rather inconsistent all the way around, as if God was a composite of many different Gods, and that makes
sense in that the Old Testament is an incomplete and heavily edited compilation of folklore and theist traditions probably dating back 6000 years. I
mean, in the OT we see God refer to itself in the plural; we see an angry and vengeful God; we see a God that thrives on blood sacrifice; we see a God
that destroys earthly creation; we see a God who physically strikes down human beings; we see a God that tests human beings, like lab rats; we
see a God that makes deals with human beings; and we see a God that allows Satan to torment and kill people to prove a point.
God is love? Don't go looking for it in the Old Testament.
In my own view, the God of the Old Testament reads more like a totalitarian ruler imposing his tyrannical control over colonists on distant
shores. Like a crazy-ass King George III hammering the American colonists, right? In the Old Testament there is this huge disconnect between God in
Heaven (wherever that is) and we puny humans here on Earth. We live in fear of God in the OT.
Then Jesus arrives. All of a sudden, "for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son." So God is now in love with the
It's evident to me that either we're talking about a different God altogether, or God has had a major change of heart. I think it's the
latter, and I find that fascinating — that an omniscient, omnipotent entity can still learn something and can change its attitude. To
me, that makes the whole concept of God a little more palatable. Soda Pop Factor.
If you know your OT, you know that God speaks in plural terms regarding itself — let's create this thing in our image, okay? The
explanation for this is The Trinity — Father, Son and Holy Ghost, right, that God is holding an eternal confab with Christ and the Holy
Okay, that is important.
This suggests that The Son (Christ) was around at the time of Creation and watched good old Dad carry on smiting and sending plagues on the
earth and squeezing the populace for good smokey sacrifices and so forth for thousands of years. Then came The Son's turn, and the Son set about
changing the mind of God.
Which is a staggering notion.
The Son chose to put his ass on the line to make a point. The point was this: Dad, stop toying with these people. These are not your lab
rats. I know they're brutal, but I want to impress upon you how much I love 'em. Look, I'm one of them now, I'm going to live and die among
That's the leverage right there. Everything else springs from that.
– Doc Velocity
[edit on 4/23/2009 by Doc Velocity]