Hell is a Conspircacy Theory- Proved False, From The Bible

reply to post by Joecroft


First your unprejudiced logic serves you well.

The only thing that puzzles me about this, is why would God resurrect those who are already spiritually dead? I’m still searching for an answer to that question.

A very fair and reasonable question, Locoman partially answered it.

Essentially any human that has not accepted Christ as the actual son of God who ransomed all humanity from eternal death is spiritually dead to God.

Since that encompasses billions that have died, why does God resurrect them? God in his love for his creation is giving them a second chance, regardless of belief structure or sins. At that point they will be educated about God's standards and Jesus. They will be given a reasonable amount of time to accept and apply this. If they refuse this new reality, they will die eternally with Satan and his Demons, symbolically put into the Lake of Fire of non-existence. The only thing that is torturous about this is the memory of their very existence, within the survivors, it is like smoke that ascends forever as the the book of Revelations states. But it is not literal.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
If people use their heart, they'll surely know that a Loving God doesn't condemn soul to eternal damnation. But what I often see is, creed over deed, lust to hate over love.

Meaning.. that kind of religious people like to feed their hatred rather than the opposite. But why a believer of God does that, since it's practically appeasing "the devil".

Anger and frustration are supposed to be a temporary state. But they have become a part of people's character.

Yes god is loving of religious, kind, moral people. He will not let murderers, homosexuals, people who commit suicide, nonbelievers..etc into heaven. Especially if they do not believe in him, but he knows better than I, for he is the lord of the worlds.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
First your unprejudiced logic serves you well.

Thanks

I have a big heart but most of the time, my head rules over it.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
God in his love for his creation is giving them a second chance, regardless of belief structure or sins. At that point they will be educated about God's standards and Jesus. They will be given a reasonable amount of time to accept and apply this. If they refuse this new reality, they will die eternally with Satan and his Demons, symbolically put into the Lake of Fire of non-existence.

It would seem pointless for God to resurrect unrighteous people if he is then going to immediately destroy them, so there must be a reason for resurrecting them. Either God is going to torture the unrighteous forever or give them a second chance at life, before destroying them, my heart and my head, tell me it has be the later.


The reason I now fully believe this is because the resurrected unrighteous people are already spiritually dead as Jesus points out in various parts of the bible. If the unrighteous had a spirit then God would deal with their spirit directly. God would not resurrect their bodies only to destroy them again, unless there is a plan. The plan cannot be to torture them for all eternity because that would not be a second death but would be a life sentence! There bodies are clearly not going to survive the fire, which is the second death and because they have no spirit and are cut of from God, they cease to exist.

I never could believe that a loving God would torture people forever. Giving people a second chance makes perfect sense to me because of all the people past and present, who never had a chance to hear the Gospels.



- JC


[edit on 16-7-2009 by Joecroft]

[edit on 16-7-2009 by Joecroft]

reply to post by Joecroft


The second chance idea, that most of Christendom forgets about, is backed up by these scriptures.

John 5 verses 28&29 (New Living Translation)

28 Don’t be so surprised! Indeed, the time is coming when all the dead in their graves will hear the voice of God’s Son, 29 and they will rise again. Those who have done good will rise to experience eternal life, and those who have continued in evil will rise to experience judgment.

Daniel 12 verse 2 (Contemporary English Version)

2Many of those who lie dead in the ground will rise from death. Some of them will be given eternal life, and others will receive nothing but eternal shame and disgrace.

Acts 24 verse 15 (Amplified Bible)

15Having [the same] hope in God which these themselves hold and look for, that there is to be a resurrection both of the righteous and the unrighteous (the just and the unjust).

Romans 6 verse 7 multiple bibles

English Revised Version
for he that hath died is justified from sin.

Webster's Bible Translation
For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Weymouth New Testament
for he who has paid the penalty of death stands absolved from his sin.

NWT
For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin.

Romans makes it very clear that from God's perspective death wipes the slate clean, the person pays the ultimate price for sin with death, just like Jesus paid that price, but not for sinning but to ransom humanity from Adamic sin. Combine these two and you have the second chances the other scriptures talk about.

The judgment is not on their past life because God acquitted their past sins, it is only on their actions AFTER resurrection during the second chance, that is when the judgments these scriptures talk about happens.

This is God's Justice for the billions that never heard the message and even those that did but where blinded by Satan to understand the truth, but have died.

[edit on 16-7-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Best reply I've heard speaking about the punishment of sin. To die is to be freed from sin. Your slate is wiped clean. Revelation 20:12 speaks of the occasion when all who had failed to accept Christ in their lifetime get their genuine opportunity at the White Throne Judgement.

And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

There is a great explanation of this verse and the word "books" from bibletools.org. I posted their commentary below.

Revelation 20:12



The Hebrew word translated "books" in Daniel 7:10 corresponds to the Greek word translated "books" in Revelation 20:12. This Greek word is biblia, and it is from this word that the English word "bible" is derived.

The books that will be opened are the books of the Bible! They will be opened to the understanding of thousands of millions of people-everyone who was unable to know and understand God's purpose and plan for them during their previous lifetime because they had not been called by the Father and given His Spirit of understanding.

Some, assuming that "judgment" means only the pronouncing of a sentence based on past behavior, have thought that these people, even if they repented, could do nothing to change their fate. Thankfully, God is merciful, always willing to forgive upon true repentance.

Still, some people will not accept Christ and repent. Those with truely hardened and cold hearts will be those cast into the lake of fire for their permanent death and absence from existence. I give you a star bluejay. And I am your 43rd flag too.

reply to post by Locoman8


Thanks Locoman.

I forgot about that scripture it is a very good one, that scripture in Revelation helps us to understand that for the first time since the bible was completed in the first century we will be getting new printed information directly from God, and it will impact resurrected ones even more than any survivors of Armageddon.

Too me that is very exciting, because we really don't know what new information it will contain, but we do know it may answer some questions the bible doesn't answer or maybe some wrong idea's we currently have for whatever reason. This will clear everything up, we just have to have faith.

One point I think it might make is how long the newly resurrected ones get to reform their lives to God standards, if they led a sinful evil life previously.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


100 years.

I am reading a book "23 Minutes in Hell" by Bill Wiese and I am about to put it down. Not that I don't believe the author that this experience, I do, but it is so horrific and depressing I just can't stomach it.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


Hey, look at my signature! We both have the "act of random kindness" theme going on! On a more topic-based reply, that book speaks of a man who had a dream or vision of going to the mythical hell. Don't waste your time with it.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Romans makes it very clear that from God's perspective death wipes the slate clean, the person pays the ultimate price for sin with death, just like Jesus paid that price, but not for sinning but to ransom humanity from Adamic sin. Combine these two and you have the second chances the other scriptures talk about.

Extremely well described…

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

The judgment is not on their past life because God acquitted their past sins, it is only on their actions AFTER resurrection during the second chance, that is when the judgments these scriptures talk about happens.

God is trying to help us by offering us a way out becuase he knows we cannot survive without him. God tells us that he is the true vine and describes that a branch that is cut from it, will wither and die. The fall of man or Adamic sin, is how we were cut of from God by choosing to go our own way. God does not want us to perish because he loves us, and so through Jesus he is showing us a way out, from death and a way to come back to God. God is the source of everything, if your not part of him, you cannot exist in any form.

This may not be entirely scriptural but for me it is more about people coming and getting to know God, rather than judgment. It is sad than many people believe that God is torturing people in this so called hell place, for all eternity, which puts many people off from getting to know God, or even believing in God.

- JC

reply to post by Joecroft


The "hell" doctrine is a scare tactic for the catholic and protestant churches to scare people into getting "saved". This is not the only day of salvation. God is picking His people right now and purposely blinding the rest in order to advance His plan for mankind. Those of us being chosen right now are to take part as kings and priests in His kingdom on earth.

reply to post by Locoman8


God isn't blinding anybody on purpose, but he is allowing Satan too.

2 Corinthians 4 verse 3&4 (New Living Translation)

3 If the Good News we preach is hidden behind a veil, it is hidden only from people who are perishing. 4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Well, obviously it's Satan that created confusion so it's obvious he is the one that blinded the masses. I could have used a better choice of words. God allows Satan to blind the masses in order to advance His plan for mankind and allow mankind to humble before God when the time finally comes. It's up to mankind to pull the veil away from their eyes to clearly see the truth. God knows who these people are and it's the job of all christians to find those people from the masses. That's one reason why the gospel is preached throughout the world.

Originally posted by teapot
This thread has degenerated into a slanging match between individuals who appear to have lost the plot!

Hell exists.

Imagine your life as it is. Then remove from it all those things that make it tolerable; love, family, friends, good health, comfort, self esteem, etc., ie all those things that may be attributed to a God of Love. Such is hell. Just the elements that seek/work to undo God's Grace.

And remember this, in hell, there will be no placebo's to ease the pain of existance, no drink, no sex, no drugs, not even endorphine!

Free will is real. When God expelled Adam and Eve from Eden, He said, Thou May go forth and multiply and have dominion of the Earth. Adam and Eve had already rejected God's wisdom and relied instead on their own, perhaps believing that a loving God would not punish them.

Free will is the post expulsion gift that allows us another chance to trust God!

As for who of us will enter hell and who won't, remember this;

Only by Grace are we saved.

All those who think that by their own efforts they can 'buy' a place in Heaven, or as the JW's believe, the new earth, are very mistaken and have been deceived by Charles Taze Russell and his ilk.

I applaud anyone who has rejected the established churches in the world. Though the Bible makes clear, the True Church, Christ's Bride, is seen and known to all, if only we knew it.

Jesus also makes clear that he will not recognise some who claim to be his and that others who have never heard of him, will enter the kingdom of heaven.

All that and not one single verse...you know the kingdom of heaven is not the same as the salvation Christ has died for right?

1 Timoth 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

what part of that verse implies all will be saved? What part implies something else awating the believer? This isn't hard to get really....

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Hey blue, I just wanted to toss it out there that many early church fathers held a belief of universal salvation and that it isn't really new or radical. It has been suppressed viciously though as you know.

reply to post by SmokeandShadow


I think that's the point of his thread. Good point you bring up. This is also why the thread is in "conspiracies in religions." It's as if the "mainstream" christianity has blinded the masses with lies... especially about eternal damnation. All it takes is reading two chapters of the entire bible to get a clear picture of what hell is. Revelation 20-21 speak of hell as a lake of fire which is known as the second death. Death is the key word here.

reply to post by SmokeandShadow


There are plenty of people here on ATS who happily quote from scripture. If you wish to castigate or judge me for not following suit, that is up to you. My understanding of the Bible will not be as yours, or anyone elses as we all will find individual understanding depending upon where we are in relation to God. My relationship with God and therefore my understanding of scripture, changes and grows with time. I speak from the heart, for the sacrifices of God are a broken heart and a broken spirit. Anyone reading my words can check them against scripture if they wish.

Peace.