reply to post by teapot
Please clarify.
Do you mean emotional and mental torment, but not physical?
If it is only emotional and mental, does it last beyond death?
Hell is a Conspircacy Theory- Proved False, From The Bible, page 23
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reply posted on 7-7-2009 @ 10:08 PM by Locoman8
reply to post by Imago Dei
Don't be bitter because you were caught doing what you've been doing on this thread, "cut and paste". There are tools like "insert external text" notated by the big "EX" button above the text box. This will allow you to cut and paste external texts such as your "websites" and you'll be safe from the mods. Also, to quote by inserting [ quote ] without the spaces, then the text, then [ / quote ] without the spaces. This gives the reader the idea that what is being written was quoted by someone else. There's another tool that allows you to insert website links for easy access to a website that has all you want to tell people about on these threads. Don't play it off like you don't "cut and paste" freely on this site. You did it with your HUGE back to back to back to back to back to back, etc... of theology from the JW, LCG, WCG, UCG, etc. Your wikipedia search on my religion of the Living Church of God was a cut and paste and I can prove it because wikipedia gives the same exact word-for-word text that you provided, yet you didn't notate that it was and external text. So leave if you wanna wine about being put in your place, but if you care to stay, I'll tango with you. I'm sad to see you go because it's people like you who need a reality check by people like me, bluejay, holywar, and yes, even badmedia. I'm a LCG member. That is a church title, not a religion. My religion, if you need titles or denominations, is best described as Judeo-Christian. Judeo-Christians are best known for living a jewish-based christian life. I like to explain it as the first christians after Jesus was crucified which included His apostles. Christains of the early first century were considered a SECT of judaism and if followed properly, that's all it was intended to be. The jewish religion with the belief that their messiah had been born and died for the sins of mankind and will eventually come back to claim His people and set up an everlasting kingdom on earth. So judeo-christains pretty much believe that of the jewish religion but also the belief of fulfilled messianic prophecy. As a Judeo-christian, I believe in following the ten commandments as Jews do.... except we should bury the old sinful self by baptism of water and the laying of hands to recieve the holy spirit in order to live a spiritual life and follow God's spiritual commandments the way they were intended to be followed.... without burden and with joy you should follow ALL of God's commandments. In addition, Jesus added the commandments to Love God, Love your neighbor, and Love Him as He has loved us. Of course these three things fall back to the Ten Commandments.
If you leave, you're just another bitter person unwilling to learn your lesson and do right by God. You'll go on believeing you're so "self righteous" when, believe it or not, there is a lot of very valuable information for you to take in here. You just have to take off the blindfold and stop judgeing before reading what is truely being said. If I don't see or hear from you again, may God have mercy on you. I know He will. Weather you learn your lesson or end up being thrown into the lake of fire, mercy will be shown because God will not suffer anyone for eternity. That is scriptural... not manmade doctrine. And you might want to relearn your idea of the "White Throne Judgement" because EVERYONE who was not taken in the first resurrection, will be judged on this Great Day. That's all, and good riddance to you, sir.
Don't be bitter because you were caught doing what you've been doing on this thread, "cut and paste". There are tools like "insert external text" notated by the big "EX" button above the text box. This will allow you to cut and paste external texts such as your "websites" and you'll be safe from the mods. Also, to quote by inserting [ quote ] without the spaces, then the text, then [ / quote ] without the spaces. This gives the reader the idea that what is being written was quoted by someone else. There's another tool that allows you to insert website links for easy access to a website that has all you want to tell people about on these threads. Don't play it off like you don't "cut and paste" freely on this site. You did it with your HUGE back to back to back to back to back to back, etc... of theology from the JW, LCG, WCG, UCG, etc. Your wikipedia search on my religion of the Living Church of God was a cut and paste and I can prove it because wikipedia gives the same exact word-for-word text that you provided, yet you didn't notate that it was and external text. So leave if you wanna wine about being put in your place, but if you care to stay, I'll tango with you. I'm sad to see you go because it's people like you who need a reality check by people like me, bluejay, holywar, and yes, even badmedia. I'm a LCG member. That is a church title, not a religion. My religion, if you need titles or denominations, is best described as Judeo-Christian. Judeo-Christians are best known for living a jewish-based christian life. I like to explain it as the first christians after Jesus was crucified which included His apostles. Christains of the early first century were considered a SECT of judaism and if followed properly, that's all it was intended to be. The jewish religion with the belief that their messiah had been born and died for the sins of mankind and will eventually come back to claim His people and set up an everlasting kingdom on earth. So judeo-christains pretty much believe that of the jewish religion but also the belief of fulfilled messianic prophecy. As a Judeo-christian, I believe in following the ten commandments as Jews do.... except we should bury the old sinful self by baptism of water and the laying of hands to recieve the holy spirit in order to live a spiritual life and follow God's spiritual commandments the way they were intended to be followed.... without burden and with joy you should follow ALL of God's commandments. In addition, Jesus added the commandments to Love God, Love your neighbor, and Love Him as He has loved us. Of course these three things fall back to the Ten Commandments.
If you leave, you're just another bitter person unwilling to learn your lesson and do right by God. You'll go on believeing you're so "self righteous" when, believe it or not, there is a lot of very valuable information for you to take in here. You just have to take off the blindfold and stop judgeing before reading what is truely being said. If I don't see or hear from you again, may God have mercy on you. I know He will. Weather you learn your lesson or end up being thrown into the lake of fire, mercy will be shown because God will not suffer anyone for eternity. That is scriptural... not manmade doctrine. And you might want to relearn your idea of the "White Throne Judgement" because EVERYONE who was not taken in the first resurrection, will be judged on this Great Day. That's all, and good riddance to you, sir.
reply posted on 8-7-2009 @ 06:14 AM by teapot
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
We each have within us our individual share of the Eternal Life Force, the God within, if you like.
As individuals, each with our own path to enlightenment to travel, we each experience life in our own unique way, that uniqueness so beloved of Abba that He sought to save us from ourselves is, as in Abba's image, Eternal, forming part of the All.
This individuality will experience joy or torment uniquely. But will involve hunger that is not satisfied, thirst that is not quenched. We leave our dust behind, upon the Earth, where it belongs. Emotion is merely a bio-chemical response to stimuli of our physical being.
So it seems logical that the torment, hunger, thirst will be of a spiritual or psychic nature.
Jesus, on the cross expressed the torment of being separated from God '..Why hast Thou forsaken me?'
If there is no torment after death, or if the universal life force will not be diminished or altered by the annihilation of individual humans, then there would have been no cause for Abba to send His only begotten Son to conquer death, take the sins of the world upon Himself or show us the beauty and value of living a loving and simple life.
We each have within us our individual share of the Eternal Life Force, the God within, if you like.
As individuals, each with our own path to enlightenment to travel, we each experience life in our own unique way, that uniqueness so beloved of Abba that He sought to save us from ourselves is, as in Abba's image, Eternal, forming part of the All.
This individuality will experience joy or torment uniquely. But will involve hunger that is not satisfied, thirst that is not quenched. We leave our dust behind, upon the Earth, where it belongs. Emotion is merely a bio-chemical response to stimuli of our physical being.
So it seems logical that the torment, hunger, thirst will be of a spiritual or psychic nature.
Jesus, on the cross expressed the torment of being separated from God '..Why hast Thou forsaken me?'
If there is no torment after death, or if the universal life force will not be diminished or altered by the annihilation of individual humans, then there would have been no cause for Abba to send His only begotten Son to conquer death, take the sins of the world upon Himself or show us the beauty and value of living a loving and simple life.
reply posted on 9-7-2009 @ 06:07 PM by cancerian42
Originally posted by Imago Dei
reply to post by cancerian42
Because I know the bible is the word of God Ie the creator of the universe and the creator of me. I believe it because I have irrefuteable evidence to prove that it is. I see you have taro as your avatar, I am assuming (perhaps wrongly) you believe this has power, and you believe it becuase you have evidence, I know from the word of God that the taro has power as well, and it's power is evil and I am warned by God not to not to touch it, so I don't.
Why do you not believe the scripture is from God?
If you had irrefutable evidence we would all be saved so why are you refusing to share it with the world? I do not believe in tarot nor do I disbelieve, just as I neither believe nor disbelieve in the bible, to tell the truth I would be a fool to assume to know what either was truly about. All I know is what has been shown to me, I guess if your God wanted me to be saved he would give me a reason to believe. Oh and I am assuming that the real reason you believe in the bible is because you are afraid. Nothing ever good comes from fear you know.
reply posted on 10-7-2009 @ 08:46 PM by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by masqua
THANK YOU.
The Alert button does work after all
Maybe now we can continue this thread in a civilized and a constructive matter.
I think it is a comfort for all to know that none of our deceased friends and family are burning in a place of torment.
THANK YOU.
The Alert button does work after all
Maybe now we can continue this thread in a civilized and a constructive matter.
I think it is a comfort for all to know that none of our deceased friends and family are burning in a place of torment.
reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 04:13 AM by teapot
Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by masqua
I think it is a comfort for all to know that none of our deceased friends and family are burning in a place of torment.
The path of love is not a path of comfort
It means going into the unknown, even if you are afraid
Trusting is dangerous, but without trust, there can be no hope for love,
And love is all we have to hold against the darkness.
love is worth nothing until it has been tested by it's own defeat.
Creina Alcock (from 'My Traitor's Heart, Ryan Malan)
reply posted on 11-7-2009 @ 06:51 AM by Imago Dei
Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by masqua
THANK YOU.
The Alert button does work after all
Maybe now we can continue this thread in a civilized and a constructive matter.
I think it is a comfort for all to know that none of our deceased friends and family are burning in a place of torment.
Have you visited there lately and had a chat to a few in the after life have you ?
Yes my alert button works too. Good to know that.
reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 11:43 PM by Joecroft
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
Excellent thread, this has really made me think…
I looked up the translation a few years ago and found that the word hell was often translated as the word sheol meaning grave. In the church I went to, at that time, no one really talked much about the specific meanings of what hell really meant, other than a separation from God.
The above verse seems critical to me, I mean why would God refer to it as, the second “death”. Why use the word “death” (Rhetorical question), if God meant it to be, an eternal punishment? To experience an eternal punishment you would have to be alive forever, not dead.
My only possible counter argument to this, would be that that the second death might only refer to the body and not the spirit, in which case the body would die for a second time after the resurrection but the spirit would live on…but having said that, I don’t believe fire would harm the spirit body so to speak, but being separated from God would be punishment enough, for all eternity.
The above verse shows that the condemnation is death, not eternal living punishment. Jesus talk’s about people being spiritually alive and those who are spiritually dead. It seems (to me) those who are spiritually dead and in their bodies at the resurrection, will be put into the “lake of fire” where their bodies will be destroyed and because they are already spiritually dead, they will cease to exist i.e. be destroyed, forever. The only thing that puzzles me about this, is why would God resurrect those who are already spiritually dead? I’m still searching for an answer to that question.
- JC
Excellent thread, this has really made me think…
I looked up the translation a few years ago and found that the word hell was often translated as the word sheol meaning grave. In the church I went to, at that time, no one really talked much about the specific meanings of what hell really meant, other than a separation from God.
NIV
Revelation 2:11
“…He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death”
The above verse seems critical to me, I mean why would God refer to it as, the second “death”. Why use the word “death” (Rhetorical question), if God meant it to be, an eternal punishment? To experience an eternal punishment you would have to be alive forever, not dead.
My only possible counter argument to this, would be that that the second death might only refer to the body and not the spirit, in which case the body would die for a second time after the resurrection but the spirit would live on…but having said that, I don’t believe fire would harm the spirit body so to speak, but being separated from God would be punishment enough, for all eternity.
NIV
John 5:24
“I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.”
The above verse shows that the condemnation is death, not eternal living punishment. Jesus talk’s about people being spiritually alive and those who are spiritually dead. It seems (to me) those who are spiritually dead and in their bodies at the resurrection, will be put into the “lake of fire” where their bodies will be destroyed and because they are already spiritually dead, they will cease to exist i.e. be destroyed, forever. The only thing that puzzles me about this, is why would God resurrect those who are already spiritually dead? I’m still searching for an answer to that question.
- JC
reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 07:59 AM by Locoman8
reply to post by Joecroft
One thing you might want to research is the biblical view on a separate spirit or soul of a person. You'll find that the bible does not teach of a separation of body and soul. When you die, you die until your appointed resurrection. Those who are resurrected to everlasting life do not separate spirit from body. Instead, the body transfigures into spirit. Body and soul are one. You become spirit. You're not spirit yet. Your physical body must transform into a spirit body. Remember Jesus and the "transfiguration"? Those cast into the lake of fire do not undergo the transformation into spirit. They remain flesh and are thrown into the lake of fire and are consumed into a second and final death.
One thing you might want to research is the biblical view on a separate spirit or soul of a person. You'll find that the bible does not teach of a separation of body and soul. When you die, you die until your appointed resurrection. Those who are resurrected to everlasting life do not separate spirit from body. Instead, the body transfigures into spirit. Body and soul are one. You become spirit. You're not spirit yet. Your physical body must transform into a spirit body. Remember Jesus and the "transfiguration"? Those cast into the lake of fire do not undergo the transformation into spirit. They remain flesh and are thrown into the lake of fire and are consumed into a second and final death.
What if all the major religions started out with the same story and it slowly diverged from there
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