Hell is a Conspircacy Theory- Proved False, From The Bible

My theory on this is that we exist within 12 or more planes of existence. We currently in our present form occupy the third plane, or third dimension. When we pass, we are judged as to whether we have learned right from wrong.

If you are righteous, you move up in the planes, towards Heaven, Nirvana or whatever you want to call it.

If you are neutral, dont lean one way or another you reincarnate to liveo n the third plane over and retry it.

If you lean towards wrong/evil you move down a plane towards hell.

Hell is very real, it is just not what we are typically taught it to be. It just happens to be the lower astrals, which is why we have gatekeepers working very hard to keep the gates closed.

Satan and his minions have found a way to move up to this plane of existence, are opening the gates to the lower planes, and are currently trying to take over our world, but thats a whole nother topic.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by holywar
reply to post by decievedperception

 

Sorry, can't help myself... I had to interrupt just to say:

WELCOME TO ATS!!!!!!

your words are music to my ears

thanks so much and i dont mind you interupting for nice words.
Glad you think so, if so must mean you understand and have some belief in what is true.

Tried to edit my second post spent forever typing and they lost it so i have to do it agian, but my post are already getting lost with the comments, i will do it again tomorrow though and finish both posts bc i feel that the rest HAS to be said to clear up every reasoning I have (true reasoning) for all to understand. and i hope people here will really take and read whaat i have wrote and will finish writing bc I feel i can explain things in easier termanology for others to understand than what some can make it out to be. Like i say all the time, this is all very common sense stuff, just a lot of others are veiled by the truth and come up with all kinds of rendentions of these things and make it impossiple to learn the truth until one is found that knows, or pretty damn close to knowing.

Originally posted by holywar
getting back on the subject:

[edit on 24-6-2009 by holywar]

Bald face liar wearing a beanie and goatee.

[edit on 24-6-2009 by Imago Dei]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by Blue_Jay33

 

Actually I think you might get by with your willful ignorance of the doctrine of the trinity or the eternal nature of hell but what you probably will not get by with is denying the certain deity of Christ.

"See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily," (Col 2:8-9)

Christs deity is a non negotiable part of the Gospel and for that reason the Watchtower Cult is a dangerous group of heretics leading the unfortunate into apostasy.

Your unreal pal! Why bother, he's not one of the flock, so give it a freaken rest. Your wired wrong dude. You need an electrician.

[edit on 25-6-2009 by Imago Dei]

Originally posted by Imago Dei
reply to post by teapot

 

Good post finally some sanity re-enters this thread. Bravo

Thank you! Not sure it's had any real impact on the slanging match!

Well im no longer able to edit my prior posts..must be after they sit so long your unable to? I don't know, so ill continue here, my 1st post on prior page if you want to read all that ive written. (please do if your going to start so you can understand it all as a whole, everything go's together)

Eternal Punishment?

Matt. 25:46
"These shall go away into everlasting punishment but the righteous into life eternal."
Some say "cutting off" instead of punishment.
Cutting off , to prune. Restrain, to repress. Chastise, to punish.
To cut off an individual for life, or society, or even to restrain, is deemed as punishment. Hence why people come up with some of the things they do.
The righteous go to life, the wicked to the cutting off from life, or death, the grave.

A story of Sodom and Gomorrha and the cities about them. Give themselves to fornication, and going after strange flesh, they suffered the vengeance of enternal fire. Though the fire is out now, the effect of the fire is still in their, the cities there have NEVER been rebuilt. Jesus says that the where "destroyed", Jude 7 shows that the destruction was eternal.

what about the enternal torment in Revelation?
going to shorten (not change) the following passage just some (look it up if you want to read fully)

Rev. 14:9-11; 20:10
"If any man worship the beast and recieve his mark shall drink of wine of the wrath of God and he shall be tormented with the fire and brinstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever and they have no rest day nor night." "And the devil that decieved them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where and the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

So whats this torment its referring to?

At Rev. 11:10 referance is made to 'prophets that torment those dwelling on the earth.'
At Rev. 14:9-11 worshipers of the symbolic "beast and his image" are said to be "tormented with fire and brimstone."
This cannot refer to conscious torment after death because "the dead know nothing"
Then what causes them to experience such torment while they are alive?

It is the proclamation by Gods servants that worshipers of the beast will experience second death, which is represented by "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone" The smoke associated with the fiery destuctions ascends forever bc the destuction will be eternal and never forgottten.
When Rev. 20:10 says that the Devil is to experience 'torment forever and ever' in "the lake of fire and brimstone" what does it mean? Rev. 21:8 says clearly that is means "the second death" So the Devil being tormented their forever mean that there will be no relief for him; he will be held under restaint forever in enternal death.

The fiery Gehenna?

For a time it was the site of idolatrous worship, including child sacrifice. Used for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of dead animals were thrown into the valley to be consemed in the fire, in which brimstone and sulfer where added to assist the fire. Also bodies of executed soldiers who where considered underserving of a proper burial were thrown in as well. If the body fell into the fire it was consumed, but if it landed onto the ledge of the ravine the flesh become ifected with worms or maggots. Living humans where not pitched into Gehanna so it was not a place of conscious torment.
Matt. 10:28 Jesus warned his hearers to "be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in the Gehenna." What does it mean? Notice theres no mention of torment in the fires of Gehenna, rather he says to 'fear him that can destroy in the fires of Gehenna.'
So the referances to the 'fiery Gehanna" have the same meaning as "the lake of fire' of Rev. 21:8 destruction..."second death"

[edit on 25-6-2009 by decievedperception]

What Jesus said about death

Jesus speaking the condition of death with regard to Lazarus' death.
Jesus told his disciples : "Lazarus our friend has gone to rest." The disciples thought that Jesus meant that he was sleeping. They where wrong though, Jesus explained : "Lazarus has died." (John 11: 11-14) Notice jesus compared death to sleep, to rest. Not that he went to heaven or a burning hell. He was in a deep sleep without dreams. Other scriptures refer death to sleep.

The beginning (origin) of hellfire

Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs..the "nether world a place full of horrors, presided over by gods and demons of greath strength and fierceness."
Christendom's hell found in the religion of anceint Egypt
Buddhism which feature both hot and cold hells
Hell portrayed in Catholic churches in Italy have traced to Etruscan roots

But the real root of God dishounoring go even deeper. The fiendish concepts associated with a hell of torment slaunder God and start with the head slaunderer of God...the Devil...slaunderer. the one Jesus called "father of the lie" John 8:44

And to end, the thing most important to me and I always think about concerning this topic....
The Devil is not able to CREATE so he couldnt have created his own personal hell
And "God is love" 1 John 4:8 Notice it doesn't say he just shows love, he is love! And God loves everything he's created and would never create something to torture them for ever and ever!

A illustration ive heard a million times....would a loving mother hold her childs hand over the stove forever because he/she did something wrong? not one in the right state of mind, or has true love for that child.

and i am not one of any specific religion, i dont go to any kind of church. my words come from the bible, from several several books ive read, and my mind and thoughts.....i don't know if theres one TRUE religion and no matter how much theyd tell me so I wouldnt be a ble to fully believe...bu8t I know God and his word is real so I take in lots of knowledge and I am not influenced with my thought with false religion.

I also made a post here about "the cross" is it another lie? if youd be intersted in my thought there.....

www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 25-6-2009 by decievedperception]

the Bible could not be any more clearer on this issue:

Yes the bible is very clear, YOU TUBE presentations obvioulsy are not. For those who would like to know what the biblal actually says about the topic, which I only post to reveal the brainswashed deceit and lies of some on this thread. The good news is Christ saved you from this is you beleive in him.

fire" Matt 7:19, 13:40, 25:41
"everlasting fire" Matt 18:8, 25:41
"eternal damnation" Mark 3:29
"hell fire" Matt 5:22, 18:9, Mark 9:47
"damnation" Matt 23:14, Mark 12:40, Luke 20:47
"damnation of hell" Matt 23:33
"resurrection of damnation" John 5:29
"furnace of fire" Matt 13:42, 50
"the fire that never shall be quenched" Mark 9:43, 45
"the fire is not quenched" Mark 9:44, 46, 48
"Where their worm dieth not" Mark 9:44, 46, 48
"wailing and gnashing of teeth" Matt 13:42, 50
"weeping and gnashing of teeth" Matt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30
"torments" Luke 16:23
"tormented in this flame" Luke 16:24
"place of torment" Luke 16:28
"outer darkness" Matt 8:12, 22:13
"everlasting punishment" Matt 25:46

Isaiah 66:24:

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh

In Luke 16, Jesus Christ gives a frightening picture of hell:

22 . . . the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. (Luke 16:22-28)

Revelation 14:10 says, " . . . and he shall be tormented with fire and BRIMSTONE . . ." And Job 18 describes the " . . . PLACE of him that knoweth not God" (vs 21), in verse 15 as, " . . . BRIMSTONE shall be scattered upon his habitation

reply to post by Imago Dei


yeah, sounds like "hell" alright when you leave the context out. And the fact that you bring up the PARABLE of the rich man and Lazarus to prove your "hell" point, is enough proof for me that you are really confused about this topic. That's what happens you take symbolic language literally. Sorry... but the God I serve is NOT SADISTIC!

This is what the PARABLE of the rich man and Lazarus really means:

Don't we have a really good example of Gods qualities in the experiences of Jesus time on earth. www.biblegateway.com...:38&version=31

The only time he showed any "damnation" was when he threw out the greedy money changers from the place of worship. Every other example was all about the love and his amazing teaching abilities by the use of illustrations. After all that is what God is....Love www.biblegateway.com...

An omniscient supreme being having infinite awareness, understanding, insight and the very essence of love wont be holding any eternal grudges. Rather he will reward the faithful.

I prefer not believe dogma taught by fear based religions.

Everything I have posted on hell is scripture in the bible.

With a wave of your hand you disgard the "parable" of lazurus and every other scripture which talks about an eternal hell and damnation. I don't care what anyone "prefers" to believe that is contrary to scriptural fact.

The God I worship and serve died a horrendous beating followed by nailing to a cross to conquer eternal hell and eternal death.

The God I worship and serve with awe, tells me that If I do not share the truth of the gospel with all whom I come into contact with, then their blood is on my hands. The God I serve and worship and praise, is the God of the bible, almighty, sovereign, saviour and judge!

Your false teachings and your You Tube videos do not alter the innerrant, infallible, unchangeable word of scripture one lieing iota.

All wisdom starts with the fear of God. If the police dragged you before the courts, you'd be petrified even if you where innocent, and we will stand before God (if we are washed in the blood of Christ, innocent) but it will be a fearful and terrifying and shameful thing to be held to account for every deed every thought and every action we have done in this body after we have been saved. Man only gets into heaven by the skin of his teeth through faith in Christ. And if you do not have a holy reverence and fear of almighty God who can cast your soul into hell, then you are either a liar and or you have no idea who God is or of the eternal consquences of sin.

The same God wiped out all of man kind with a flood, ordered the destruction of city's and all its inhabitants because of sin. One man dropped dead instantly for no more than touching the ark of the covenant, and a couple of Christians dropped dead instantly for withholding money and lieing about it.

The grace of God is unmerrited favour only because He loves us. In actual fact we all deserve hell. I struggle with the ramifications of eternal punishment and I am burdened by it immensly at times, but that doesnt mean the bible is unclear on the issue, and you so called "Christians" who claim the bible teaches other wise are just outright disinformation specialists AKA Liars.

Further more, the same God allowed practically ALL of the deciples to be subjected to a terrible death, and there have been over 100 million through out history who have been martyred the same way and worse, and in the last days possibly millions more will be called to be martyred before they can see heaven and those who accept the mark will end up in hell for eternity along with satan and his hoard.


www.biblegatewaytohell.con is just another con job to be added to the rest of the disinformation on this lieing conspiracy of a thread.

I wouldnt bother to comment if people clarified their posts as beliefs, opinions and preferences instead of denying the truth of scripture and stating their beliefs and opinions as biblical fact, which they most definately are not.

annihilation-refuted. (thats right eternal punishment is irrefuteable biblical fact.
www.bible.ca...

By the way I could post a heapen helpen of Youtube videos that refute predestination and anihalation, but I dont need to, the bible is crystal clear on both issues.





[edit on 25-6-2009 by Imago Dei]

Originally posted by teapot

Originally posted by Imago Dei
reply to post by teapot

 

Good post finally some sanity re-enters this thread. Bravo

Thank you! Not sure it's had any real impact on the slanging match!

Nor did it have any impact on yet more lies being heaped upon more lies. But did you think it would??

[edit on 25-6-2009 by Imago Dei]

reply to post by Imago Dei


Sorry if my simple bible based logic ruffles your feathers. I commend you for the Passion you have for th bible and for that i am sure you will *not* go to hell

Why don't you like You Tube?
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by The Great Day
reply to post by Imago Dei

 

Sorry if my simple bible based logic ruffles your feathers. I commend you for the Passion you have for th bible and for that i am sure you will *not* go to hell

Why don't you like You Tube?

www.youtube.com...

Your sureity about my eternal security doesnt reassure one bit. lol:

Im saved by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. For that I do not and can not boast.

I love youtube, its brilliant, my favourite webiste, I dont like disinf merchants using other disinf merchants on youtube as if it lends credibility to their lieing doctrines. Im defending the truth of the word of God. Im not gonna get into a youtube posting war to do it. Becuase I don't need to.

Good fun in it.... Wait till the disinf merchant hoards get a load of this, hopefully I've shut their traps, but I some how doubt it. Their probably of talking to their wolves in sheeps clothing pastors to come firing back with fresh lieing ammo. :

[edit on 26-6-2009 by Imago Dei]

Actually, fear of god is a mistranslation. The actual word is - wisdom starts with respect for god.

If your god is god, then he is not worthy of my worship. Your god is described as being worse than any human that has ever walked the earth.

What kind of father punishes their child for eternity? You punish your child in order to teach them a lesson. You do so out of love for that child. No parent punishes their child for eternity, and for you to say that about the father is an insult.

It's bad enough that you say such things about him, it's even worse that you would honestly feel such a being is worthy of worship to being with. Only Satan would do such things.

Say you are a parent and one day one of your children takes to bashing all the others, just for the fun of it. You work tirelessly with the bashing child, trying to teach it why it should not be using violence on it's siblings. The bashed children are becoming bruised and yet you just cannot seem to get the basher to understand and accept the house rule of a loving approach to siblings.

In the end, the basher says, 'No, I shall never follow your rules and I don't care if my siblings are hurt.'

What would you, as a loving parent do?

Throw the basher out! And if it does not mend it's ways and show due respect for the house rules, not allow it back! Even if this only to protect the sanctity of the home provided.

Now say a visitor comes to stay and not only does the visitor not wipe it's feet on the mat as requested but decides to spit on the carpet. What do you do? Allow the visitor to show such disregard for your home and quite possibly set a disrespectful example for your children or insist that if the visitor cannot show due respect, they have to leave?

If the transgressor, offspring or otherwise, cannot accept and respect you in your own home, it is only right and proper to ask them to leave.

Say it is a cold and wet night out there, do you relent just because they insist on their own comfort above all else? Or do you acknowledge that through their transgressions, they have made their own choices and decisions and let them on their way?

Say then, the transgressor arrives and says, it is so cold and wet out there please let me back and so you relent and as soon it has stepped into your home, it spits on the carpet and bashes your kids.

What would you do? Throw them out without any further discussion, or throw them out and send your most trusted son to take a message to all the people who may find the transgressors ways appealing, advising them that there is another way? Would you then ask your trusted son to go the transgressors domain and take control, and leave so that he can visit his friends one more time and cook them their breakfast before coming home to rest before the battle that is to come, or would you say good riddance to bad rubbish and leave it at that?

reply to post by teapot


Actually, that is the reason you were thrown out of the garden.

Eternal hell is far away from that. It includes punishment forever. Even a human has enough deceny to put a suffering animal out of it's misery, but an eternal hell doesn't offer that.

At worse, your soul will simply die. And you as an individual consciousness will cease to exist, and your soul will be absorbed by the father. All that is of the father will eventually return to the father.

reply to post by badmedia


Posts in this thread arguing that hell does not exist or that if it did, this must mean that God is sadistic indicate to me that there is lot of confusion about what Jesus actually meant when he talked about death and everlasting life.

The point I make is that hell exists, not because God is sadistic but because he will protect his domain and those who reside within it.

Well, as I see it, after he was crucified, Jesus spent time in hell. Why? Did he have a job to do there as well, just as he did on earth?

Originally posted by badmedia
[Actually, that is the reason you were thrown out of the garden.

Eternal hell is far away from that. It includes punishment forever. Even a human has enough deceny to put a suffering animal out of it's misery, but an eternal hell doesn't offer that.

At worse, your soul will simply die. And you as an individual consciousness will cease to exist, and your soul will be absorbed by the father. All that is of the father will eventually return to the father.

Corrrect your father the devil, the father of all lies.

[edit on 26-6-2009 by Imago Dei]