Hell is a Conspircacy Theory- Proved False, From The Bible

reply to post by Imago Dei


That is WHY the Bible's message is so clear right? That is why everyone understands just what is said in there right? I have studied it endlessly.

Its a book of hope for people who thinks knowledge of history brings them truth.

The problem is, if you would get to know your source of life from whence you came, you would see God differently without the book.

The main problem the Bible leads people into leads them right away from God. Which is, a need for blood, which is a need for death. Make sure you know what supernatural entity was being wrote about. Just because another man called it God doesnt make it so.

Spiritual seekers shouldnt be looking for truth....the should be looking for 'what makes sense' because this is the best tool you have with you....a sense recognizing 'home'.

We can discuss the Bible....half of my library has aided me in studying that book. In which lead me closer to God the more I realized that idea of God is what was keeping the Spirit being able to guide me and show me.

You mentioned a Near Death Experience....not sure why, I never mentioned anything about one. But if you would rather believe accounts in the Bible of people having dreams interpreted and reading stones over people today who might have some value from a unbiased experience, then by all means, that is why we have freedoms.

I only speak to show. Once you find understanding about the whole 'god' thing....and you consciously know that you have been shown something....its like a deal breaker...the only thing you can do is tell Thee...use me for your will. That is what has happened, and my life is now dedicated to Thee and a divine order. I cant show anyone really....but a tid bit of something I say may shine a light to someone to where they may remember who they are and what their purest nature is. I come from a family with a mother and a son who claim to of seen Jesus and these were not visions through any near death experience.

I have real reasons to believe what I believe...its been a 3 yr journey for me of me changing my beliefs from Christian to just being spiritual and not needing a label. There was never something learned in one day....but it was a sifting, like how flour sifts into dough. And the dough slowly rises. Seeking the Holy Spirit is a process but it is just as beautiful as anyone can imagine and then some.

So what are these proofs you said you have...about the Bible being given by a supernatural ?

[edit on 17-6-2009 by LeoVirgo]

Let us not forget the "lake of fire" spoken of in the book of Revelation.

Rev 20:14-15 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Hell is a place of torment as one awaits the final judgment of the damned, those who are not found written in the book of life. Hell itself is cast into the lake of fire. When a person who does not accept Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord dies, they go to a prison called hell. When it comes time to be judged by their Creator God, they are called to stand before Him and explain all the things they did during their lifetime on the Earth. After this, God will see if their sins have been covered by the blood of Jesus Christ, who is the only pardon they can ever receive while living. If they are not found to be written in the book of life, they will be cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, and it is final.

Choose today if you know there is a God in heaven and that you are guilty before Him. If you know this, tell him you are sorry for your sin and ask Him to forgive you and accept what Jesus did for you on the cross when He gave his life for yours to keep you out of hell and from death. Ask Jesus to save you and be the Lord and Savior of your life. The Bible says that if you can do this from your heart, believing what you say, you will be found written in the book of life and will never die.

No one needs saved!

Know you are worthy and are loved!

You only need to awaken to your truest nature!

Then you will find the Holy Spirit within!

Then will your eyes see and your ears hear!

You are loved beyond all imagination!

A way and order has been made so that no light is lost!

You are not paying for past peoples wrongs!

We are supposed to be here!

This life is not a mistake!

Awaken!

Not everyone can be saved. Salvation is only for the children of God. Only they can hear the Father's voice. The Bible says that there is a way that seems right in the eyes of a man, but the end is the way of death. believe what you will but know that if you have absolutely no desire to be saved, it may be that it was never meant for you. It is meant for those who are destined to become the children of God through Christ. They are the ones who receive Christ and live. That is why I said, if you know in your heart that there is a God in Heaven and that you are guilty before Him, make the choice for your destiny today and accept what Jesus did for you on the cross when he gave His life for you so you could live.

All others are going to the lake of fire because they will not accept Christ and live.

While this is what I believe, don't get all upset because I believe it. I am stating what the Bible tells me. You can believe what ever you want to.

reply to post by Fromabove


The word, "hell" in revelation 20 is the greek word "hades" which means "grave". Literally, death and the grave are thrown into the lake of fire giving the lake of fire it's title of "The Second Death." It is a final death because death itself is thrown into the fire along with the grave (hell). When you die, you lay in your grave or vause until the return of Christ or after the melennium of peace. Ecclesiastes 9:5 states "The living know they will die but the dead know nothing." We will be in an unconcious state while dead until our appointed resurrection. You are misunderstanding the scripture of the lake of fire by calling "hell" a prison. The only "hell" in the bible that mentions a prison is 2 Peter 2:4 where the greek word "tartarus" is translated in english to "hell". It is a pit, prison, abyss for the fallen angels and Satan. This explains their imprisonment during the 1000 year peace.

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by Fromabove

 

The word, "hell" in revelation 20 is the greek word "hades" which means "grave". Literally, death and the grave are thrown into the lake of fire giving the lake of fire it's title of "The Second Death." It is a final death because death itself is thrown into the fire along with the grave (hell). When you die, you lay in your grave or vause until the return of Christ or after the melennium of peace. Ecclesiastes 9:5 states "The living know they will die but the dead know nothing." We will be in an unconcious state while dead until our appointed resurrection. You are misunderstanding the scripture of the lake of fire by calling "hell" a prison. The only "hell" in the bible that mentions a prison is 2 Peter 2:4 where the greek word "tartarus" is translated in english to "hell". It is a pit, prison, abyss for the fallen angels and Satan. This explains their imprisonment during the 1000 year peace.

Ah.. but no matter what you think the position of hell and state of it is, one cannot deny two things. There is a place called hell where the dead are, and there is a lake of fire where the dead that are not in Christ go, called the second death.

No one is upset...I only speak from the spirit instead of a book for those silent readers who are truly seeking.

I only counter the advice given by those who speak from books.

I bring a voice....and have no reasons for anything at all to upset me. I love all people and for those who are still vibrating in the life of flesh....they know not what they do...in which hope shall be placed more so in those who struggle with a demanding forceful idea of god because they are already in tune to the Spirit that this is not Thee purest nature.

There is no separate place from Thee.

The flesh returns to the Earth and the spirit returns to where it came also. The soul is what is getting recycled and sifted until it see's its true self. This could take many life's. It is a process and no light will be lost.

Like I said, I only offer counter thoughts for those who can sense that the OT God is not the base of their most true nature. I know those who repeat the Bible word for word will not likely be the ones I am reaching to.

reply to post by Fromabove


That is correct, but everyone, righteous and non-righteous go to hell until resurrection. Hell is the grave and death. You are correct in the "second death" argument. Eternal punishment is that of everlasting death. You will die and never be again. It's life..... or death. No prison while in waiting.

There is no eternal punishment...death is only a piece of this process of sifting.

There is reaping what has been sown, but it occurs in a orderly and loving way.

Love conquers all things...even those darken souls that do not see their true self and nature. They will be shown and will see it again....and are just as worthy.

How sad it is when a soul lives and thrives on hate and pride...but even these darkened souls will relearn and realize, to deny the spirit within them is only to deny their very existence. Standing in a divine light, this is impossible to do. The soul will humble itself, will have empathy for those they did wrong and will relearn.

I see you have not addressed this exegesis.

αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων

forever and ever = aionas ton aionon = "ages of the ages"

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen," (1 Tim. 1:17).

αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων is the same Greek as

" After this I heard what seemed to be the loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, crying out, “Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, for his judgments are true and just; for he has judged the great prostitute who corrupted the earth with her immorality, and has avenged on her the blood of his servants.” Once more they cried out, “Hallelujah! The smoke from her goes up forever and ever.”" (Re 19:1-3)

So if you deny that that her smoke goes up forever ever in her judgement then you also deny Gods glory & honor are forever and ever!

There's more:

". . . To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever" (Rev. 5:13).

αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων same Greek as

"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10).

What part of "and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever" is unclear to you guys????

or is it that you also deny that " blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever" is due to Christ?

Just so you know - your liberal humanistic interpretations have broad implications that you really do not want to maintain. You guys who want to deny hell is eternal torment in fire also must deny Gods glory in the collateral damage.

As much as I hate the idea of torment - I'm not willing to go there. I suggest you fear the Lord - he is Holy - and because of Hebrews 10:31

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

[edit on 6/17/2009 by Bigwhammy]

God does not seek to be feared.

Again, the book is what leads people to this. Without the book...no one would assume God is to be feared.

Just because Thee is most high and almighty does not mean Thee works in such primal ways such as humans do...such as imposing fear to others to get our way.

God is patient and must be sought out of a humbled will. Fear would defeat that entire purpose.

God is not forceful. Which is what makes Thee Holy and Divine. Its a compassion few understand due to our human desire to punish those who hurt us in some way. Those that can forgive the one who does not know what they do....can begin to understand this true nature.

If you fear God....you do not understand.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
God does not seek to be feared.

Again, the book is what leads people to this. Without the book...no one would assume God is to be feared.

Absolutely! You are astounding - you basically think that you yourself are God. Because you deny scripture - you are just creating God in your own image. You are not accountable to any standard of truth. Just make up what suits you. What you say is all nice touchy feely platitudes - and certainly God does love - but his justice and Holiness also entails wrath. That is why Christ died. Without a proper fear of the Lord and respect for his word it is impossible to know him.

"And he said to man, ‘Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom, and to turn away from evil is understanding.’ ”" (Job 28:28)

reply to post by Bigwhammy


I give word of the spirit...not of material scriptures that hold no life.

If you were to discern with your spirit all scriptures of all relgions, you too would see the same.

God walks beside, not in front. God will kneel with you, not before you. Do you not see?

God does not seek worship from you but yet love from you. The nature you are worshiping is a primal nature that is of the flesh mind.

I dont claim facts...but I say...test for yourself.

But yet, people dont seek their spirit...they seek scriptures.

When it is just you and your divine maker....and you ponder with the Holy Spirit....things will be shown. I dont expect anyone to take my word for it...again, that would defeat the purpose of truly coming to Thee for the right reasons.

Fear brings souls to Thee for the wrong reasons. God did not send those messages for people to fear Thee. It was man who needed his people to fear kings and order that needed man to fear Thee. They used Gods image and there is blood all over it.

Originally posted by Locoman8

Originally posted by Imago Dei

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
No one has any proof of hell except what another mans thoughts has lead them on. Once you see God for what Thee is, within your own self....you will see...there is no eternal separate place from God.



Again, there is no place 'separate' from God.

There is ample proof to prove the bible is the word of God IE supernaturally inspired and given to us by a supernatural being, in this book we read of a man who was in hell, he begged that someone go and tell his family that there is such a place so that they would not end up there. This is more than enough proof.

A near death experience, is not death.

Are you serious? This is your proof for hell? Lazarus and the Rich Man? This wasn't even a true story. Jesus was speaking in parables to the Jewish leaders at the time. It was a metaphore and nothing more. Read the context of these stories and maybe you'll see what is happening. By the way, don't ever call my beliefs a "cult". At least I'm not being decieved by Satan's seed in christianity. Believe what the catholics sublimibly taught you. It's your blind choice. Peace be with you.

Im not a Catholic. Can I ask if you if refer to yourself and your church as Christian? If the answer is yes, then in my opinion you are being deceived by a cult version of Christianity ( I mean you no offense personally) The bible talks about everlasting torment for the unsaved, its a horrible topic I know, And God is not williing nor am I, that any should end up there which is why wise men seek to save souls, if people where not going to end up there, Christ would not need to come and die and believers would not need to follow the great commission to seek to save the lost. I wont be contributing any more on this thread because I am delighted to see there are many true believers in Christ in this website that are in full agreement with what the scripture clearly says on this very serious fundamental topic. ( that is not to say that someone can repent of their sins receive Christ as saviour, then latter (sadly) be led to believe lies about the Holy Scripture. None of us can get our minds around the reality of an eternal torment, but this does not give people the right to create false doctrines to explain it away, your church is not the only "Church" to preach this false doctrine, there are many, The Church of Christ is another.

If you go to this site you will see that your Church is registered as a dangerous cult, surely this warrants some looikng into brother, God may have brought you to this site to show this. Look into it and ask God to show you the truth with a genuine seeking heart - will you do that? (not for me, for yourself.)

www.cults.co.nz...

Living Church of God. A splinter group of the Worldwide Church of God, they publish Tomorrow's World magazine and produce a television programme of the same name. .


Peace be with you and God Bless you too.



[edit on 17-6-2009 by Imago Dei]

I stopped attending church after going to a Christian church of God my whole life.

The Holy Spirit leads me...no book and no man. The book and mans beliefs lead me until I was 30 yrs old. I am 33 now and for 3 yrs have been learning from the Holy Spirit which is within us all waiting to show us things.

The Holy Spirit is seeking to lead many but they miss the mark because their nose is in a book.

I know how it is...my nose was there for many many years. After being so thankful that I was able to see...I am dedicated to allow the voice to come forth but as always...everyone has to find out through their own personal relation with God. Many hard core religious folk only have a relation with the book...not the Spirit.

I will repeat it until my death...the OT image of God is false and people dont even try to understand. They say...well God is God...who are we to say what Thee will do....

That is just it....the spirit inside us tells us what nature God is...shows us through our own purest nature.

God isnt even capable of anger.

A good seed cant produce a evil fruit.

This will only be known through personal relations...dont ever take my word for it or any mans word for it for that matter.

Jesus was a righteous man that got tied to a bloody belief of sacrifices. No different then any other belief that sacrifices and sheds blood and promotes death.

Jesus offered his flesh, seeing this was not the life to fight for. We are all sons and daughters of God.

With all due respect as well....you can call my words lie's all you like. I know what I say does not rest easy on people and I was prepared for this over time to be a voice.

I only urge people to use the discernment their maker gave them.

reply to post by Imago Dei


It's plain and simple. I don't belong to a cult. It's simply a different way of christianity than what you follow. You are being judgemental with calling the Living Church of God a cult. I'm happy that you did a little web search on my chuch. There is much information on this church. It does more in spreading the Gospel message than any other church or so-called christian out there. It doesn't ask for your money. All materials offered by the LCG are 100% free and you will not be solicited. You only recieve what you request.

As far as hell goes.... just look at the greek words and the real english translations.

Hell=Death
Hell=Grave
Hell=Abyss
Hell=Valley of Hinnom

Of these, only two can qualify for the traditional sense of "hell". The abyss mentioned is the greek word "tartarus" which was used to explain the confinement or impisonment of fallen angels.... not humans.
Valley of Hinnom was a trash pile with DEAD bodies. The fire burned constantly, or "forever and ever." No people suffering in this fire, theyre already dead.

The lake of fire is called the "second death", not "eternal life in torment." Last I checked, death was the opposite of life. Using verses like Revelation 20:9 where SATAN and his angels burn forever and ever is just that.... Satan, fallen angels, demons.... not humans! The beast and false prophet are humans but the scripture is not correct where it says "where the beast and false prophet are." That's because the italicised word "are" means the word was added for clarification only someone with an already made opinion on hell used the adjective "are" in place of a politically correct phrase like "were thrown".

Revelation 19 talking about the smoke of the harlot rising forever and ever means nothing more than Babylon the Great in ruins. Forever and ever in this sense is simply smoke rising to the stratosphere and dissipating into invisible gas. It does not speak of hell in this context. The harlot woman is Babylon the Great.... the nation that falls by the hands of God. No hell in this.

Sift through the facts. they are there. Get a greek/hebrew dictionary of old and new testament words. Get a concordance. Get some history books too. They all help.

In closing, I'm not in a cult. I'm in a church that has discerned fact from fallacy and the common christian church fails to understand or realize this. Adios amigo.

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by Imago Dei

 

It's plain and simple. I don't belong to a cult. It's simply a different way of christianity than what you follow. You are being judgemental with calling the Living Church of God a cult. I'm happy that you did a little web search on my chuch. There is much information on this church. It does more in spreading the Gospel message than any other church or so-called christian out there. It doesn't ask for your money. All materials offered by the LCG are 100% free and you will not be solicited. You only recieve what you request.

As far as hell goes.... just look at the greek words and the real english translations.

Hell=Death
Hell=Grave
Hell=Abyss
Hell=Valley of Hinnom

Of these, only two can qualify for the traditional sense of "hell". The abyss mentioned is the greek word "tartarus" which was used to explain the confinement or impisonment of fallen angels.... not humans.
Valley of Hinnom was a trash pile with DEAD bodies. The fire burned constantly, or "forever and ever." No people suffering in this fire, theyre already dead.

The lake of fire is called the "second death", not "eternal life in torment." Last I checked, death was the opposite of life. Using verses like Revelation 20:9 where SATAN and his angels burn forever and ever is just that.... Satan, fallen angels, demons.... not humans! The beast and false prophet are humans but the scripture is not correct where it says "where the beast and false prophet are." That's because the italicised word "are" means the word was added for clarification only someone with an already made opinion on hell used the adjective "are" in place of a politically correct phrase like "were thrown".

Revelation 19 talking about the smoke of the harlot rising forever and ever means nothing more than Babylon the Great in ruins. Forever and ever in this sense is simply smoke rising to the stratosphere and dissipating into invisible gas. It does not speak of hell in this context. The harlot woman is Babylon the Great.... the nation that falls by the hands of God. No hell in this.

Sift through the facts. they are there. Get a greek/hebrew dictionary of old and new testament words. Get a concordance. Get some history books too. They all help.

Why would you assume I do not already have a concordance?

Sorry amigo, there are no loop holes or get out of hell "for eternity" free cards other than the precious blood of Jesus Christ. We are eternal beings. At least our soul/spirit is. And the soul/spirit part of us lives on for eternity, the unsaved are given a worm, thats right a body to be able to endure the troments of hell for ever and ever.


Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

A concept people fail to understand is that this body/worm enables a soul to endure eternal torment.

It is not hard to get ones mind around this, we have a body on earth that is abe to endure untold torments both physical and emotional on a grand scale. Often the only release is death. In eternal hell, there will be no release. No one wants to end up here, and the devil, with the help of cults and false teachings will do all to get people to deny firstly that there is a devil and secondly an eternal hell.


By the way, we are called to excercise sound judgment and to reason together over what the scripture says. If that means I'm being judgemental, I make no appology. No one likes to face up to the fact that they have been misled. Im told it's called cognitive dissonance which baiscally equates to denial of the facts.




[edit on 18-6-2009 by Imago Dei]

[edit on 18-6-2009 by Imago Dei]

reply to post by Bigwhammy


I have posted this in this thread before but we have new posters so I will say it again.

It's not literal, it means historical infamy that will never be forgotten for all eternity.

It represents a type of God's universal court ruling, that can be used to remind everybody why God is justified in instantly killing any future rebels, AFTER all the demons & satan and all those that side with him are wiped out and experience the second death/Gehenna/lake of fire, which means non-existence.

The expression "A day that will LIVE ON in Infamy" can be applied here, the day is not actually alive is it?

And that is why we have no hellfire preserving people alive burning them for all eternity, doesn't that sound like something that Satan would like to do to people. That's why he invented it, it's a sick twisted fantasy of his, that will never happen.

If you think God and Jesus endorse this fallacy of dogma, you don't know them at all. And you don't understand the bible either.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by Bigwhammy

 

I have posted this in this thread before but we have new posters so I will say it again.

It's not literal, it means historical infamy that will never be forgotten for all eternity.

It represents a type of God's universal court ruling, that can be used to remind everybody why God is justified in instantly killing any future rebels, AFTER all the demons & satan and all those that side with him are wiped out and experience the second death/Gehenna/lake of fire, which means non-existence.

The expression "A day that will LIVE ON in Infamy" can be applied here, the day is not actually alive is it?

And that is why we have no hellfire preserving people alive burning them for all eternity, doesn't that sound like something that Satan would like to do to people. That's why he invented it, it's a sick twisted fantasy of his, that will never happen.

If you think God and Jesus endorse this fallacy of dogma, you don't know them at all. And you don't understand the bible either.

Obvioulsy I would like to to think that you and all others who believe hell is a myth where right, and as you say, I may not "understand" the bible the way you do, but I do know how to read, and I do know what is written in it is as clear as day.

I for one do not believe the Devil wrote the bible, but I do know for a fact that he is the master of deception and the father of all lies. And on face value, and I say face value to allow you the benefit that there may be some Cryptic "hidden" unseen message or version of the bible that has some how been revealed to you other wise, but the bible that I have been reading for over 20 years is crystal clear on the reality of an eternal torment for satan and all of those who reject Christ as saviour. Further more introducing expressions of speech and sayings like "a day of infamy" does nothing to strengthen an arguement to the contrary nor does it refute biblical scirptural fact.

Sorry guys this is a fanciful notion, as fancilful as any other notion one would expect from the heathen, new age or athiests. Certainly not a notion from a bible believing Christian who knows his bible. You can have this belief, but you can not call yourselves Christians if you do so, and it is only because it appears as though you are saying you are Christian that I have entered into the discussion. I really have no need to comment directly with non Christians on thier views and beliefs regardingthe Holy Bible and I generally only do so when they try to spout on about satan supposedly coming to our rescue in the garden.

You have done nothing to prove the proposterous statement of this thread title which you wrongly stated as fact. How people can get away with creating conspiracies on a site that is opposed to conspricies and lies would be quite amusing if it where not a mater of eternal life and death.








[edit on 18-6-2009 by Imago Dei]

Originally posted by Locoman8

Originally posted by Imago Dei

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by Imago Dei

 

well, the earthly death is temporary also. The 2nd death is eternal.... meaning that you have no chance of living again through a resurrection. Your memory will be forgotten. Look through the scripture and read how the sinful, unrepentant people are destroyed, abolished, die, and cease to exist. Nowhere does it say the sinful will burn forever and ever while being alive forever. The "eternal" fire is just that.... a fire that burns forever. Are the bodies alive forever in punishment? No!!!! It doesn't say that. Satan, and the fallen angels being punished forever in the lake of fire is different than humans. They are spirits. The 2nd resurrection is a fleshly resurrection as well. What happens to flesh when it burns? It's turned to ashes. Read Malachi chapter 4. The righteous will trample the ashes of the sinful. The smoke that ascends forever and ever simply means that once consumed, it will end. You can't always trust the english in the bible. You can keep your book and your smart remarks. Once again, you are the one mistaken. Good day to you.

Well my friend. I suggest it is you that needs to read your bible and stop beliveing what is spoon fed to you by the wolves in sheeps clothing preached to you from the pulpet of the cult you are a member of. Eternal hell for unrepentant sinners is a fundamental bible fact. Which is the only reason God came down out of heaven in the form of Jesus Christ to die a hideous death in order to defeat eternal death and eternal hell for all those who believe. You are believing a lie, which is your choice, but I take great umbridge at so called professing Christians who disseminate lies about the bible on internet forums.

Good day to you.

You are very mistaken. I take it you're a trinity believer also. Jesus is not God. Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus prayed to God. Jesus called Himself "lesser" than God. Jesus existed with God upon creation as the "Word" or "Spokesperson" of God. Hell is made up. Hell is a pagan idea fed into the Jewish and Christian world. Throw in misleading literature like "Dante's Inferno" and you get a mixed idea of this imaginary place. Jesus died that we may have EVERLASTING LIFE. It's a choice between life or death.

To say that Jesus is not God is a Satanic idea. I read the bible, and I believe what it written in it. I no longer allow wolves in sheeps clothing to interpret it through the sive of deception for me.

To believe in the trinity IE that The Father the son and the holy spirit are one is to believe what is written in the book, and when one has researched all the evidence thats right all the evidence, it does not take faith to belive that what is written in the bible has been given to us by a supernatural being AKA God, nor is it a mystery or a baffling concept to grasp. Can I ask if you have received Christ as your saviour and been born again, or is this a pagan idea as well? You do realise that if Jesus was just a man, he has no ability to save you from anything, let alone eternal damnation.

[edit on 18-6-2009 by Imago Dei]