Hell is a Conspircacy Theory- Proved False, From The Bible

Very dumb how god would send people to hell for not believing in him/her/it when he/she/it does not show any proof for existence.

reply to post by jes7er

Satan had to tempt Jesus the same as everyone else.

So Yahweh comes to earth but this time changes his name to jesus and calls himself the son of himself.

Being the creator of everything Yahweh/jesus creates a being called Satan, so as to try to persuade himself to act in a manner contrary to his will.

Unsurprisingly, the entity that jesus created (satan) failed to get it's creator (jesus) to act in a manner that jesus did not want to act, even by offering him what was already his.


It is obvious to see why xtianity appeals so much to people with troubled minds. The irrational illogical propositions of christian dogma are so beyond reasoning that it's easier to accept the delusion along with other delusional people than actually think.


If I was going to pray, I would sincerely pray for a time that humanity would grow out of these childish superstitious beliefs so that we could maybe all focus on getting along on this planet.

But of course, getting along runs contrary to xtian beliefs, as deluded xtians wait with bated breath for yahweh to come and kill anyone who chooses not to act like them.


The sheeple have been bleating the same thing for 2000 years and if we haven't all killed each other off or grown up, will be bleating the same thing for another 2000 years.

However, there is hope, churches are being pulled down at an increasingly greater rate dust is collecting on the pews of the ones that still stand.

The voice of reason is calling from the mist, begging us to stop indoctrinating our children with with repulsive superstitious beliefs.

I may be chastised for this post, but I feel an ethical obligation to interject.

The OP, while offering interesting and somewhat accurate information, is preaching basic Jehovah's Witness beliefs. The technique that the OP uses to deliver this information is clever as he doesn't reveal his ulterior motive of spreading his faith, disguising it as a pseudo-intellectual discussion of ancient language to English translation of Bible passages

How do I know what the OP's intentions are? 'cause I used to use the exact same techniques when I was a Witness.

By no means do I want to stop the discussion, but I think everyone should be aware that every post by the OP makes has a subtext to invite you to take the first step into the religion.

The OP created this thread as bait, although he most definitely does not think of it that way. It is what I would have done in his place. 20 years ago, I was spouting almost the exact same set of data points to the more intellectual people I met at kitchen tables on Saturday mornings.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


What did Jesus say.
Why was he here at all.
To tell you about hell and make sure you know He
does not want you to go there.

Heaven was promised to mankind in the old testament.
In the name of the land of milk and honey.

But heaven is much more than that.
Also the Lord God Jesus made sure you don't go any place
else cause unbelievably he cares about you.



[edit on 6/6/2009 by TeslaandLyne]

reply to post by zefiro

The OP, while offering interesting and somewhat accurate information

Isn't that all that counts, freedom from the false fear of hell.

After all the ATS motto is "Deny Ignorance" That's what this thread does, which you admitted with the above quote.

This thread got an applause and is my most flagged and starred thread, many people seemed to like it.

A single truth is still that, regardless of the other doctrine's you may disagree with for whatever reason.

It would be like saying to a person that told you the earth is round and 4 other things that you dispute as fact, is wrong with his "earth is round" statement, because he got the other 4 things wrong.

[edit on 6-6-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Like I mentioned, I don't want to stop the thread. I also don't want to change it into a JW dispute. I'm sure we can both find a dozen other threads on that topic.

I just recognized your recruitment techniques (and you are extremely good) and felt a moral obligation to expose your ulterior motives to those that may not recognize them.

"Deny Ignorance", correct?

Perhaps I'll see you on one of those other threads and we can talk more there.

reply to post by zefiro


Fine Zefire, but for the record, can you at least express some intellectual honesty and tell people if you personally believe in Hell, and if you don't, why?

I just wanted to make a general statement on this thread. If you read my posts here on ATS/BTS, you will probably know that I believe every bit of the original post of this thread. I also want to note that I'm not a Jehovah Witness either. I wanted to mention that because most people tie in this view of "hell" as strictly a JW doctrinal belief. I am of the Living Church of God and believe the same exact thing about hell. The ultimate destiny of a God-rejecting sinner is the Second Death. Why is the lake of fire called the second death if you are punished for eternity? Everlasting life is for the faithful. If you burn for eternity, you still have eternal life, just in a life of torment and pain. Doesn't add up. The Catholics and the english translating protestants ruined proper doctrine with mistranslations and false christain ideas with "study bibles." True biblical doctrine does not follow the idea of body and soul separating or reuniting at resurrection. You die, resurrect, and transfigure to spirit or burn to death. Plain and simple.

www.av1611.org...

Sorry the OP, is well out of order.

Christ came to save us from eternal separation from God IE eternal damnation.

The bible is the only authority on these things, not some cult version of Christianity or a post twisting the truth on an internet forum.

Man is appointed once to die and then the judgment. Reincarnation is a lie.

[edit on 16-6-2009 by Imago Dei]

reply to post by Imago Dei


Once to die? How about a little thing in revelation called the "Second Death" in the lake of fire? You, my friend, are the one who needs to get their facts straight.

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by Imago Dei

 

Once to die? How about a little thing in revelation called the "Second Death" in the lake of fire? You, my friend, are the one who needs to get their facts straight.

Well my friend the second death is a spritual eternal death. What I quoted was the scripture, "man is appointed once to die" (ie one earthly death), and then the judgment. I fogot you have to dot your i's and cross your t's with all the smarty pants people in internet forum land. My friend

But if you want to be an extra smarty pants for bonus points, some people will not even see the earthly death.

And for triple bonus points, those who have not been born again are already spiritually dead.

You can see more wisdom from me on how to score bonus points and triple bonus points in my book "How to win threads and influence sheeple" available free for $12.99 on ebygum.con

PS. I notice you haven't started changng the world yet?





[edit on 16-6-2009 by Imago Dei]

1 Tim 6:3-4

If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions,

As distasteful as it is, I don't like it this way for the sake of my fellow human beings - (I even posted a thread like this once) - but after further study, it's pretty clear from the Bible that Hell is eternal.

The late Dr Walter Martin is the expert on debunking cult nonsense. Pay attention to these videos and you will be able to discern the deceptions being propagated in this thread.



Now here's my exegesis to back it up.

forever and ever = aionas ton aionon = "ages of the ages"

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen," (1 Tim. 1:17).

same Greek as

"And a second time they said, "Hallelujah! Her smoke rises up forever and ever" (Rev. 19:3).


same Greek as

". . . To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever" (Rev. 5:13).

same Greek as

"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10).

If you deny that the torment is eternal you deny Gods glory is eternal.

Now consider what is really being said here:

"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," (Matt. 18:8).


"And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power," (2 Thess. 1:9).

"Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire" (Jude 7).

These men are those who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever," (Jude12-13).

Jehova's witness are not Biblical Christians - no matter what they say.



Reincarnation is a deception.

reply to post by Imago Dei


well, the earthly death is temporary also. The 2nd death is eternal.... meaning that you have no chance of living again through a resurrection. Your memory will be forgotten. Look through the scripture and read how the sinful, unrepentant people are destroyed, abolished, die, and cease to exist. Nowhere does it say the sinful will burn forever and ever while being alive forever. The "eternal" fire is just that.... a fire that burns forever. Are the bodies alive forever in punishment? No!!!! It doesn't say that. Satan, and the fallen angels being punished forever in the lake of fire is different than humans. They are spirits. The 2nd resurrection is a fleshly resurrection as well. What happens to flesh when it burns? It's turned to ashes. Read Malachi chapter 4. The righteous will trample the ashes of the sinful. The smoke that ascends forever and ever simply means that once consumed, it will end. You can't always trust the english in the bible. You can keep your book and your smart remarks. Once again, you are the one mistaken. Good day to you.

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by Imago Dei

 

well, the earthly death is temporary also. The 2nd death is eternal.... meaning that you have no chance of living again through a resurrection. Your memory will be forgotten. Look through the scripture and read how the sinful, unrepentant people are destroyed, abolished, die, and cease to exist. Nowhere does it say the sinful will burn forever and ever while being alive forever. The "eternal" fire is just that.... a fire that burns forever. Are the bodies alive forever in punishment? No!!!! It doesn't say that. Satan, and the fallen angels being punished forever in the lake of fire is different than humans. They are spirits. The 2nd resurrection is a fleshly resurrection as well. What happens to flesh when it burns? It's turned to ashes. Read Malachi chapter 4. The righteous will trample the ashes of the sinful. The smoke that ascends forever and ever simply means that once consumed, it will end. You can't always trust the english in the bible. You can keep your book and your smart remarks. Once again, you are the one mistaken. Good day to you.

Well my friend. I suggest it is you that needs to read your bible and stop beliveing what is spoon fed to you by the wolves in sheeps clothing preached to you from the pulpet of the cult you are a member of. Eternal hell for unrepentant sinners is a fundamental bible fact. Which is the only reason God came down out of heaven in the form of Jesus Christ to die a hideous death in order to defeat eternal death and eternal hell for all those who believe. You are believing a lie, which is your choice, but I take great umbridge at so called professing Christians who disseminate lies about the bible on internet forums.

Good day to you.

No one has any proof of hell except what another mans thoughts has lead them on. Once you see God for what Thee is, within your own self....you will see...there is no eternal separate place from God.



Again, there is no place 'separate' from God.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
No one has any proof of hell except what another mans thoughts has lead them on. Once you see God for what Thee is, within your own self....you will see...there is no eternal separate place from God.



Again, there is no place 'separate' from God.

There is ample proof to prove the bible is the word of God IE supernaturally inspired and given to us by a supernatural being, in this book we read of a man who was in hell, he begged that someone go and tell his family that there is such a place so that they would not end up there. This is more than enough proof.

A near death experience, is not death.

Originally posted by Imago Dei

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by Imago Dei

 

well, the earthly death is temporary also. The 2nd death is eternal.... meaning that you have no chance of living again through a resurrection. Your memory will be forgotten. Look through the scripture and read how the sinful, unrepentant people are destroyed, abolished, die, and cease to exist. Nowhere does it say the sinful will burn forever and ever while being alive forever. The "eternal" fire is just that.... a fire that burns forever. Are the bodies alive forever in punishment? No!!!! It doesn't say that. Satan, and the fallen angels being punished forever in the lake of fire is different than humans. They are spirits. The 2nd resurrection is a fleshly resurrection as well. What happens to flesh when it burns? It's turned to ashes. Read Malachi chapter 4. The righteous will trample the ashes of the sinful. The smoke that ascends forever and ever simply means that once consumed, it will end. You can't always trust the english in the bible. You can keep your book and your smart remarks. Once again, you are the one mistaken. Good day to you.

Well my friend. I suggest it is you that needs to read your bible and stop beliveing what is spoon fed to you by the wolves in sheeps clothing preached to you from the pulpet of the cult you are a member of. Eternal hell for unrepentant sinners is a fundamental bible fact. Which is the only reason God came down out of heaven in the form of Jesus Christ to die a hideous death in order to defeat eternal death and eternal hell for all those who believe. You are believing a lie, which is your choice, but I take great umbridge at so called professing Christians who disseminate lies about the bible on internet forums.

Good day to you.

You are very mistaken. I take it you're a trinity believer also. Jesus is not God. Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus prayed to God. Jesus called Himself "lesser" than God. Jesus existed with God upon creation as the "Word" or "Spokesperson" of God. Hell is made up. Hell is a pagan idea fed into the Jewish and Christian world. Throw in misleading literature like "Dante's Inferno" and you get a mixed idea of this imaginary place. Jesus died that we may have EVERLASTING LIFE. It's a choice between life or death.

Originally posted by Imago Dei

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
No one has any proof of hell except what another mans thoughts has lead them on. Once you see God for what Thee is, within your own self....you will see...there is no eternal separate place from God.



Again, there is no place 'separate' from God.

There is ample proof to prove the bible is the word of God IE supernaturally inspired and given to us by a supernatural being, in this book we read of a man who was in hell, he begged that someone go and tell his family that there is such a place so that they would not end up there. This is more than enough proof.

A near death experience, is not death.

Are you serious? This is your proof for hell? Lazarus and the Rich Man? This wasn't even a true story. Jesus was speaking in parables to the Jewish leaders at the time. It was a metaphore and nothing more. Read the context of these stories and maybe you'll see what is happening. By the way, don't ever call my beliefs a "cult". At least I'm not being decieved by Satan's seed in christianity. Believe what the catholics sublimibly taught you. It's your blind choice. Peace be with you.

Sorry if it's already been said but I have to disagree with your explanation of Gehenna. To my knowledge it was a garbage tip just outside of Jerusalem - I think it might even still exist but basically it was a waste dump. Jesus used it as an analogy of going to waste when he said they would go to hell - basically in much the same way we would now say - you're wasting your life away with the way you're living.

Originally posted by Locoman8

Originally posted by Imago Dei

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by Imago Dei

 

well, the earthly death is temporary also. The 2nd death is eternal.... meaning that you have no chance of living again through a resurrection. Your memory will be forgotten. Look through the scripture and read how the sinful, unrepentant people are destroyed, abolished, die, and cease to exist. Nowhere does it say the sinful will burn forever and ever while being alive forever. The "eternal" fire is just that.... a fire that burns forever. Are the bodies alive forever in punishment? No!!!! It doesn't say that. Satan, and the fallen angels being punished forever in the lake of fire is different than humans. They are spirits. The 2nd resurrection is a fleshly resurrection as well. What happens to flesh when it burns? It's turned to ashes. Read Malachi chapter 4. The righteous will trample the ashes of the sinful. The smoke that ascends forever and ever simply means that once consumed, it will end. You can't always trust the english in the bible. You can keep your book and your smart remarks. Once again, you are the one mistaken. Good day to you.

Well my friend. I suggest it is you that needs to read your bible and stop beliveing what is spoon fed to you by the wolves in sheeps clothing preached to you from the pulpet of the cult you are a member of. Eternal hell for unrepentant sinners is a fundamental bible fact. Which is the only reason God came down out of heaven in the form of Jesus Christ to die a hideous death in order to defeat eternal death and eternal hell for all those who believe. You are believing a lie, which is your choice, but I take great umbridge at so called professing Christians who disseminate lies about the bible on internet forums.

Good day to you.

You are very mistaken. I take it you're a trinity believer also. Jesus is not God. Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus prayed to God. Jesus called Himself "lesser" than God. Jesus existed with God upon creation as the "Word" or "Spokesperson" of God. Hell is made up. Hell is a pagan idea fed into the Jewish and Christian world. Throw in misleading literature like "Dante's Inferno" and you get a mixed idea of this imaginary place. Jesus died that we may have EVERLASTING LIFE. It's a choice between life or death.

Yeah I have to agree with Loco here somewhat. It's foolish to think that Jesus came to this earth purely to die so we wouldn't go to hell. It's a typical problem with the church that they focus on his death and discard his entire life.

As Bill hicks would have clearly pointed out, it's a difference between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to see that you're sinful and damned and that God will sacrifice his own son to save you from a burning hell that he created.
The eyes of love show you that God and Jesus are one and the same and that he came down himself to live the life he set out for us to live, to show that not even he is too great to walk the path he set for us to walk. To show us that there is life after death and that no matter what we do to him he will always forgive us and love us, even through and past death.

Which one of those messages really feels real in your heart, and when you decide that - be careful what God it actually is that you've decided to walk after.

namaste