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Ron Paul: Secession is American

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posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 03:17 PM
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Ron Paul: Secession is American


amfix.blogs.cnn.com

Kiran Chetry: How serious is this secession talk?

Ron Paul: I don’t think it’s very serious. I don’t think anybody called for secession, and I don’t think the governor called for it. But he brings up an important issue. The biggest surprise to me was the outrage expressed over an individual who thinks along these lines, because I heard people say, well, this is treasonous and this was un-American. But don’t they remember how we came in to our being? We used secession, we seceded from England. So it’s a very good principle. It’s a principle of a free society. It’s a shame we
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 03:17 PM
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Ron Paul is out there again putting it all on the line in this interview this morning on CNN’s Morning American Show.

Blunt and plain spoken and to the point he contends that while secession isn’t imminent on behalf of Texas that its not only a very American idea and not treasonous but a great way to remind the Federal Government of it’s limitations and what it’s limitations should be.

Sadly left/right partisan politics are so wrapped up in all of this citizens are having a hard time appreciating the right to self determination anymore as they seek to rely on the “your party had eight years to screw us so now our party deserves the chance to screw us some more too with no complaints”.

America has gotten so far away from what it was originally designed to be I don’t honestly think many people who make these latter mentioned arguments have even a elementary understanding of the nation’s founding and it’s guiding principals.

The march to big brother socialist/fascist government that is ever picking up pace is meeting resistance and while some say and think it is too late, I say it is better late than never to reverse this course and don’t care whose party is in power or who is the President.

The United States of America wasn’t founded on parties or personalities but guiding and governing principals. It’s time they are restored!


amfix.blogs.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 03:56 PM
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It is interesting to note that Ron Paul does seem to get regular exposure on CNN and that they tend to always interview him in a respectful fashion.

I wonder what is the cause of that since they tend to be so partial to liberals and the left?



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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Thanks for posting...BIG STAR AND FLAG (if i had one)

Amazing interview.

Quoted from link:



I think a lot of people are thinking that way. And I think that’s what’s important. People are angry. If we don’t sense that, we don’t know what’s actually going on there. People are angry. I’m anticipating it will get a lot worse. When the dollar collapses and the federal government can’t fulfill any of its promises, what if they send you dollars and they don’t work. People aren’t going to have a violent secession; they’re just going to ignore the federal government because they will be inept.


He may have just said the future right there....because that is what might happen if the government doesn't start listening to the people.

They had to of seen it at the tea parties...even with fox trying to turn it into a "republican" thing without saying they were...and everyone else just bashing them like they are complete degenerates....that most of those people are just pissed at bailouts, spending, and debt.

They've had it and they know how bad the future is going to be...and that it's going to keep getting worse if we continue on this path.

You can't keep shutting people down like that...they aren't stupid...they know what the media is doing.

The government needs to get their crap in order.

It's amazing how they are trying to downplay this....but there was huge OUTRAGE over the AIG bonuses.

Anyone see a problem here?

It's just ludicrous.





[edit on 21-4-2009 by David9176]

[edit on 21-4-2009 by David9176]



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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reply to post by David9176
 
It is pretty amazing how the tea parties ended up being cast. It's not like they were giving away free hot dogs and gifts at them where people people were just showing up to show up to get something. It's not like they were long haired or crack smoking degenerates either.

Bascially just the guy and girl from next door types taking it at their own expense to make a political statement based on their true feelings.

It's incredible the notion that people don't have the right to be disgruntled and unhappy about the course and direction government is taking and shouldn't have the right to speak out about it.

It's amazing my U.S. Senator here in Florida is more worried about what is going to happen in Cuba right now because of the Obama adminsitration and policies than he is worried about what's going to happen in America because of them.

Our government is completely broken! Thanks for posting David.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 04:50 PM
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Ron Paul is the bravest man in the world! I mean that very sincerely.

Texas and the adjoining U.S. States and Mexican states would be far more prosperous with an independent Texas. And an independent Texas would be able to secure the border with Mexico.

I am stunned at the idiocy of the Obama/Clinton party over this issue. The USA's days have been numbered for a long time, and with economic collapse and the end of the U.S. dollar still clearly in sight, no nation or system of government can endure that kind of catastrophe.

My experience as a Canadian living and working in different parts of the USA over many years has left me with the lingering impression that a regional realignment of North America would make a lot of ordinary people much happier. Ontario and the Great Lakes states would make a very vibrant country.
Quebec and French-speaking parts of Labrador could go their own vie...

Oddly though I can picture Alberta and Texas uniting ...

May intelligent and thoughtful people like Dr. Paul thrive in our governments, and for the rest, throw them to the curb.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 04:54 PM
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Ron Paul is 100% correct about this. The Founding Fathers were committing treason by signing The Deceleration of Independence. Too may people these days either forget that or never realized it to start with. S&F, good post.


TheAssociate



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Ron Paul generally appeals as much to Democratic voters as he does to Republican voters. His domestic and foreign policy ideas appeal to a lot of liberals.

Personally, I think that he could have given Obama a run for his money (especially after the financial collapse) if the MSM hadn't thrown him under the bus during the GOP Primaries.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 





Our government is completely broken!


It is...and it hasn't been working for a long time now...more are just becoming aware because they've let it get so bad.

I see zero indication of our government changing it's ways.

I wish they would change their ways.

These are for the most part regular people who don't spend their life protesting...that's what should be the wake up call to anyone watching.

many of these people have never protested a thing in their lives....and they are now out there.

They had better start acknowledging it...and stop with the personal attacks on the people who attended the tea parties.

This is why there is suddenly a 100 million tax cut...which by the way is NOTHING....and our government spends that in probably an hour anyway.

This is less than the AIG bonuses everyone was going gaga over...when billions and trillions are slipping by in the background.

Anyone seeing a pattern here??



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 05:29 PM
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Texas and the adjoining U.S. States and Mexican states would be far more prosperous with an independent Texas. And an independent Texas would be able to secure the border with Mexico.


Now that you mention you bring up some great and valid points. Texas would be in great shape to survive as it's own independent nation. It has it's own energy supplies, what in essence could be a robust economy and plenty of potential trading partners with Mexico.

Great insights! I agree that Dr. Paul is a very brave person as well.

Thanks.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by theWCH
 



Personally, I think that he could have given Obama a run for his money (especially after the financial collapse) if the MSM hadn't thrown him under the bus during the GOP Primaries.


A lot of the kids really liked him because he is so plain spoken and seems a tad ornery too! His own party is not very fond of him and it goes without saying the powers that be aren't very fond of him.

He might be having a sort of resurgence in worth now to the Republican Party since he is about the only Republican politician that really commands a voice and attention in the media presently.

He truly is a great person and I can't help but wonder what the nation would be like if we had a congress full of equally honest and plain spoken politicians as him.

Thanks for your post.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 06:35 PM
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I disagree. It is not the American way to secede and faction apart, but rather to consolidate and come together so as to more efficiently deal with the problems facing this nation and defend against threats both foreign and domestic. We have seen this trend followed twice prominently - once after the revolution and again during the Civil War.

--------------------------------------------

Nothing is more certain than the indispensable necessity of government, and it is equally undeniable, that whenever and however it is instituted, the people must cede to it some of their natural rights in order to vest it with requisite powers. It is well worthy of consideration therefore, whether it would conduce more to the interest of the people of America that they should, to all general purposes, be one nation, under one federal government, or that they should divide themselves into separate confederacies, and give to the head of each the same kind of powers which they are advised to place in one national government.

It has until lately been a received and uncontradicted opinion that the prosperity of the people of America depended on their continuing firmly united, and the wishes, prayers, and efforts of our best and wisest citizens have been constantly directed to that object. But politicians now appear, who insist that this opinion is erroneous, and that instead of looking for safety and happiness in union, we ought to seek it in a division of the States into distinct confederacies or sovereignties. However extraordinary this new doctrine may appear, it nevertheless has its advocates; and certain characters who were much opposed to it formerly, are at present of the number. Whatever may be the arguments or inducements which have wrought this change in the sentiments and declarations of these gentlemen, it certainly would not be wise in the people at large to adopt these new political tenets without being fully convinced that they are founded in truth and sound policy.

-----------------------------------------------

The Federalist Papers

Well worth the read.



posted on Apr, 21 2009 @ 10:19 PM
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I disagree. It is not the American way to secede and faction apart, but rather to consolidate and come together so as to more efficiently deal with the problems facing this nation and defend against threats both foreign and domestic. We have seen this trend followed twice prominently - once after the revolution and again during the Civil War.


Actually it's three times once right after the Civil War Massachussetes wanted to leave the union over tariffs. Once during Andrew Jackson's Presidency several states wanted to leave the Union but Jackson to his credit talked them out of it during a speach to a joint session of Congress. Finally there was the civil war.

Yet why Andrew Jackson resorted to talking the renegade states back into the fold is because the Union was set up as an 'experiment' in Government and to a man the forefathers felt that each state would be able to withdraw from the Union at any time if they belonging to the Union was not working for them.

Jackson's argument was that the other states would suffer irreprable harm should those states leave. The states decided to stay in the Union but in part because Jackson promised reforms he did deliver on including shutting down the National Bank that Alexander Hamilton had set up during his Presidency.

The reality is that the Forefathers did not want a massive bloated all powerful central government.

If they were alive to day I have no doubt whatsoever that each of them would be urging their states to leave this union.

They did not want an intrusive Federal Government but simply an entity to set uniform tariffs when it came to international commerce, and an entity to arbitrate disputes between states, and an entity to conduct a uniform foreign policy for all the states which they envisioned as being non-intervening in the affairs of other countries. They wanted an entity that could raise a national army in times of war and the only time the Federal Government had the power to directly tax the citizens was in times of war. The rest of the time the states would each contribute towards a small, and purposefully weak Federal Government so it would not become so dictatorial or powerful that it's power could rival any individual state's sovereignty.

Does that sound like our Government?

No it sure doesn't. I know you mean well, but the reality is the majority of the politicians in Washington who have long ago exceeded their mandates and constitutional powers do not mean well and they have not meant well for over a 100 years now.

States that border oceans or other countries are in an ideal geographical situation to leave the Union.

I was born in 1964 and my political minded grandparents and their friends had felt even in the early 1970s that the country had wandered too far off track.

They would be rolling over in their graves if they could see what has transpired in the last 30 years.

Washington is out of touch with the will of the people and has been for many, many decades.

Sooner or later some situations reach a breaking point. It's a shame that so many people do not understand it has nothing to do with Obama, race, political parties or any of the nonsense that so many people like to point to in order to excuse what in reality most of them are ignorant of...and that's the fact that this is not the Government our Constitution or the men who did fight and die to create it wanted.

We have over the course of the last 29 years become a psuedo fascist state, an empire, and a war mongering nation intent to impose hypocritical and double standards on weaker nations throughout the world. We do it often for all the wrong reasons and America's stature in the world suffers for it, and Americans suffer for it.

We need to get back to a constitutional form of government. Washington can lead the way but it is not...it is headed in the opposite direction.

At the nation's founding essentially the government that had the most control and say and power over a citizen was the State's that you lived in.

I live in South Florida and believe me when I tell you the Federal Government has little influence or control over it and that is for a very real reason. By and large most South Floridians simply to not respect nor appreciate how Washington does business. It's been that way since the 1980's and it is not changing except for the worse.

The Federal Government is a bloated, wasteful, incompetent entity geared towards expanding and perpetuating it's own power and influence and nothing else. It does not represent the average citizen it represents the super wealthy and foreign entities.

It has become a joke and the reality is most Americans are too harried, and too stressed and too self absorbed to even understand what our government was meant to be let alone take responsible steps to help restore the nation's integrity.

United we stand, divided we fall sounds great.

Yet the other side of that coin is also, United we will all fall when things reach this kind of moral and economic bankrupting circumstances and divided some of us will live to enjoy freedom and liberty the way our forefathers intended for it to be, not the way the Federal Reserve and the International Corporations imagine it should be for their own benefit.

Our forefathers if they were alive today would see in Washington everything they dreaded ever happening and they would waste no time taking up arms again if need be to correct it.

8 years practically after Septermber 11, 2001 not one person even in abstentia has been tried in an American court of law. Trillions of dollars wasted in fighting phony pointless wars except for the international corporations who have profited on them.

This nation is broken in more ways than one. Washington broke it. Free thinking people created this nation not lemmings and free thinking people will restore it or break away from it.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 05:48 AM
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reply to post by Lasheic
 


Well, Jefferson once said something like, I'm paraphrasing, but it was that if one or more states might secede, then we should respect it since they are our children and will always be connected if not through complete Union.

I wish Lincoln had bothered to read that, I think it was in the federalist papers, maybe he did, which makes him so much more an intolerant idiot in my opinion. In Lincolns mind I guess that means he was murdering his own children, kind of sounds like our current war on some drug users.

I don't think Jefferson would have wanted war and so I think Lincoln was too extreme in using it as a justification to slaughter many people for his forcing a relationship to exist.

He sounds more like the Pope excommunicating you if you get a divorce.

Free states are only free if they can choose to break away from larger unions to preserve their integrity. If the larger union only appears to unravel the civility or take away freedoms that those in the state are unwilling to release then what purpose does it serve? Freedom or slavery means more than just skin pigmentation, if the people are under economic chains why force them to live in constraint? If you don't want them to be free then you must want slavery or at least to bring it about and why beat around the bush about it, therefore I say leave the union, if the federal government attacks then we will know whom the ones causing terror will be.

how come the soviets can break away into seperate countries but not the US? Seems like they have more secession rights than Americans do.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 06:18 AM
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three cheers for ron paul , the only true american beacon of light ,in the darknesss that usa is in


how come the soviets can break away into seperate countries but not the US? Seems like they have more secession rights than Americans d


usa is more fascist ,simple

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Kombatt98]



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 07:09 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Right on! I agree with all. I know that my own Grandfather and his Father would roll in their graves if they knew how America has become, my family lost their fortune because of that war. I believe it is the right of the people to decide whether or not they wish to be governed by wasteful spending and fascist ways, and they also have a right, a Supreme Right, to insist that our Constitution is followed to the letter, and that Administrative law is not really law at all, but an agreement by a body of people. The States do not have to secede, all they really have to do is fire their leaders, and arrest the ones who are criminal, and that would be most of them, IMO. It is not over yet, these Tea Parties are just a starting point. It started out small in the 60s too, but for those who remember, it eventually stopped a war and impeached a president.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


well at least RP is there to take a different outlook, and bring a reasonable explanation of everything ...

here's a thread i posted that has a video of him talking about recession, from his 'office'

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and here's the video:




posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 09:36 AM
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Secession is not one of Ron Paul's good ideas. Ron has about 5% interesting ideas and 95% BS. In even mentioning secession, Ron is like a big mouth kid who incites others to follow his flag while he fades into the background. Ron is way off base here and should use his insights to suggest ways for America to be completely energy self-sufficient.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by havanaja
Secession is not one of Ron Paul's good ideas. Ron has about 5% interesting ideas and 95% BS. In even mentioning secession, Ron is like a big mouth kid who incites others to follow his flag while he fades into the background. Ron is way off base here and should use his insights to suggest ways for America to be completely energy self-sufficient.


Well that begs a question though...if America's most important quest is becoming 100% energy self-sufficient why aren't you capable of accomplishing that yourself so Ron Paul can work on all the things that Ron Paul thinks are important instead of just exclusively working on what you think is important?

Now while we are on the subject which existing oil tycoon are we going to be 100% energy effecient under? Rockefeller, Bush, Pickins, or do you have a favorite?

And how is the current system of energy monopolies really going to make America self suffecient?

Wait I saw the wind up and here is the pitch...no proto! It should be green energy! Sounds like someone's been smoking something green, come back please when you have a working, production ready, logisticaly feasible green energy that can sustain the nation.



posted on Apr, 22 2009 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by baseball101
 


I agree with you baseball101 and think Ron Paul is actually about the most reasonable person in the Congress. His ideas only seem radical to so many because in my humble oppinion his ideas are the only ones that utilize common sense.

That's the problem with our legislators is that they by and large are extremely adept at foisting off complicated, expensive and by and large nonsensical ideas, that our couched in a lot of quickly spoken and even more complex verbage as somehow being sensible, when the only sense they really make is for some special interest group, PAC or pork.

Thanks for posting the great video to the thread.




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