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Originally posted by sos37
If Americans were asked, the December following the 2001 attacks, if they thought waterboarding was an acceptable technique to find the people responsible and prevent future atttacks on the country, the percentage answering YES would be MUCH higher than it is today. Of that, I am ABSOLUTELY certain.
The people in this country disgust me at how quickly patriotism fades from their personality. Mainstream voters ride the wave of whatever is popular, and right now it is still popular to hate the previous administration. THAT is what drives this issue - not what's right, not some Americans who act like they give a damn about the rights of captured terrorists, but PURE HATE for the likes of Bush, Cheney and Rice.
Argue all you want, but none of you have definitive proof to prove the government wrong when it says that information gained from waterboarding did prevent an attack on Los Angeles. Maybe you or someone you know or even care for is still alive because of that tip. Keep that in mind before you attempt to grace the rest of us with your "benevolent vision" of just how wrong torture is.
[edit on 22-4-2009 by sos37]
Originally posted by earthman4
I wonder if we should torture every high school student to avoid another Colombine incident. Pre-emptive torture. Maybe we should torture every driver to find out who the speeders are.
Originally posted by earthman4
I wonder if we should torture every high school student to avoid another Colombine incident. Pre-emptive torture. Maybe we should torture every driver to find out who the speeders are.
Originally posted by earthman4
I wonder if we should torture every high school student to avoid another Colombine incident. Pre-emptive torture. Maybe we should torture every driver to find out who the speeders are.
From Wikipedia: In Early Modern Europe, in Italy, it was found particularly effective to deprive an accused witch of sleep for periods of up to forty hours. The induced insomnia would eventually cause the prisoner's mind to cloud, eventually leading to the breaking of their will. Without damaging the body, countless confessions were given to the authorities so the young woman could finally be allowed to get some sleep. This technique was also utilized in England, but without a limitation on time.
Accused witches were also forced to watch the trials and tortures of their fellow accused. Upon witnessing the horrible treatment of their peers, some would confess in order to spare themselves of equal treatment.
Originally posted by miasria
i'm telling you... this tidbit of info is just the tip of the iceberg. this i believe is pervasive in the backrooms.
remember abu ghraib? if it were not for the photos that got released, none of the investigations would have taken place. don't forget that. www.antiwar.com...
what about all the trashed documents on the mkultra and those of like programs? what about the trashed tapes a year or so ago.
come on people. this isn't about the torture of a few individuals that i am upset about. i suspect many other americans feel the same way.
go here and make your voice heard:
pol.moveon.org...
the department of justice will get your letter and send a confirmation back to you.
Originally posted by Logarock
Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by Logarock
Sorry but I am not going to condone the torture of terrorists or anyone else to prevent an attack.
Flame away but they are not the worst things to happen to Americans.
More people die of pneumonia, lightning strikes, car accidents
And if you continue to see yourself morally short because of it then you have been truley terrorized. To harm people for information is simply bringing us down to their level.
Well I understand your position so am not going to flame away.
As far as morally short or whatever none of this type thinking, in a case like this, really enters into it for me. I really wouldn't get a kick out of it or do it to feed some thing I have. I would approach this like I would if a pit bull had my child in its mouth and refused to let go. Thats really it. Not becouse I am a sadist or something. Some would be trying to distract the dog with milk bone or something as if that going to work but hay at least they didn't get down on the dogs level. Others would complain about the treatment of the dog and demand that the dog whisperer be brought in. Meanwhile....
[edit on 22-4-2009 by Logarock]
[edit on 22-4-2009 by Logarock]
The Bush administration claimed that the waterboarding of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed helped foil a planned 2002 attack on Los Angeles -- forgetting that he wasn't captured until 2003.
On the latter, you cannot convince me that a majority of the Americans screaming "foul" about this whole waterboarding mess are doing so because they are incensed at seeing Constitutional rights stamped into the ground. There's absolutely no way that's true. The American public has proven time and again that they care only for themselves. This is a selfish country that rides the wave of popularity. The majority goes wherever the media tells them to go. They think however celebrities tell them to think.
I find that a majority of people here on ATS, myself included, love the Constitution and love this country.
But the rest of America? Totally stupid, like livestock. Were it not for the likes of Jon Stewart, Michael Moore, Oprah and other Hollywood celebrities and news outlets telling them how to think a majority of the people in this country would be mindless drones without an alliance. Right now, they're just mindless drones.
Originally posted by sos37
Originally posted by earthman4
I wonder if we should torture every high school student to avoid another Colombine incident. Pre-emptive torture. Maybe we should torture every driver to find out who the speeders are.
Boy you went off the other end of the slippery slope. There's a world of difference between a Muslim extremist hell-bent on destroying America and some punk kid speeding in a car or some kid with mental problems thinking of shooting up a school. The mindset of each is completely apples and oranges.
In recent days, several Fox News hosts and contributors have advanced the claim by former Bush speechwriter Marc A. Thiessen that the use of harsh interrogation techniques -- including waterboarding -- on Khalid Shaikh Mohammed "stopped an attack on the Library Tower in Los Angeles." But the claim conflicts with the chronology of events put forth on multiple occasions by the Bush administration, as Slate.com's Timothy Noah has noted. Indeed, the Bush administration said that the Library Tower attack was thwarted in February 2002 -- more than a year before Mohammed was captured in March 2003.
mediamatters.org...
Originally posted by Verd_Vhett
Gitmo was not a summer camp, it was a prison, and the interigation techneqes used worked you cant just blow sunshine up these peoples buts and use care bear tacktics, they beleive they are doing gods work.
I think waterboarding and using their fears agianst them is to soft, I say rip of fingernails, and make the scum live in cells with pigs!