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Waterboarding thwarted attack on Los Angeles

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posted on Apr, 25 2009 @ 02:15 AM
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reply to post by DraconianKing
 


Please post a link to a post by an ATS member declaring that he is a NeoCon....

You seem to believe that they exist in abundance here; please post some proof of this. I'd be glad to see you substantiate your claim.




posted on May, 2 2009 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by platosallegory

I think the left in this country are dangerous. We are dealing with guys who will cut off heads and try to kill as many americans as they can and they are complaining about a guy getting water on his head.

What good are some liberal ideals if we are blown to bits?

Being in a room with a bug is not torture. We can't play patty cake with these guys.

www.cnsnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 21-4-2009 by platosallegory]


We signed the Geneva conventions. This gave us "moral righteousness" to at least not be KNOWN to torture. That is what separates animals from human beings. INNOCENT people pay the price ultimately.

Terrorists are being broadly defined now as being against the "establishment." Permits to protest? What the f%ck is that about? Bush, Cheney, they are not paying for their choices. Torture creates anger, and is a recruiting tool. It DOES NOT PRODUCE USEFUL INFO. Troops killed, and those who torture get protected. Obama and the rest are just as guilty for allowing this mess.

Also, you are a moron for thinking torture is justified. Because others rape, should we rape? Truly disgusting, you MUST be Cheney.



posted on May, 2 2009 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by AdmiralX
We signed the Geneva conventions.

So what?
The Geneva convention does not apply to terrorists and also, when did the terrorists sign the Geneva convention?


Secondly, waterboarding is NOT torture.
If waterboarding was torture, we would not use this technique on our own soldiers as training for when they get captured. That Shiek fellow who got waterboarded like 183 times would be dead if it were true torture. Please stop with this faux outrage.

Waterboarding is psychological/mental interrogation and not physical.


It DOES NOT PRODUCE USEFUL INFO.

Of course it does. Haven't you been paying attention to the news lately. It is documented that we got lots of valuable info due to waterboarding so stop speading lies and liberal talking points. Good grief!



posted on May, 2 2009 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory
stop speading lies and liberal talking points. Good grief!


Wrong.

Those are the talking points more commonly associated with Constitutionalists.

Since Constitutionalists are non-partisan by default, please refrain from utilizing the left-right paradigm to misrepresent the position and context of that member's statements. It grows tiresome and is insulting.

Thanks in advance.


[edit on 2-5-2009 by Exuberant1]



posted on May, 2 2009 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by WhatTheory
stop speading lies and liberal talking points. Good grief!


Wrong.

Those are the talking points more commonly associated with Constitutionalists.

Since Constitutionalists are non-partisan by default, please refrain from utilizing the left-right paradigm to misrepresent the position and context of that member's statements. It grows tiresome and is insulting.

Thanks in advance.


[edit on 2-5-2009 by Exuberant1]

First of all, what do Constitutionalists have to do with the Geneva Convention?

Secondly, sorry, but you are totally off base. Constitutionalists do NOT believe that terrorists should be awarded the rights of U.S. citizens or the Geneva Convention.

Please focus and stay on topic because your type of left field comments grows even more tiresome and insulting.



posted on May, 2 2009 @ 10:06 PM
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As far as I know they have always been torturing people, the things is they let to much get out this time, our good ole American Boys would never torture some one.

When I was a child I was brain washed to think the Indians were the bad guys, scalping all of the the good ole cowboys, kill them darn Indians.
It was the White-eye started to scalp the Indians first, the Indians just copied White-Man.

The whole world is a lie, Jesus!



posted on May, 3 2009 @ 03:36 AM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory
First of all, what do Constitutionalists have to do with the Geneva Convention?




Why do you support the use of torture?

Did you support the use of torture before 9/11?

What do you think will happen to people such as yourself who openly support the use of torture?

I believe what you are doing here is a crime. Your government sodomizes children to get information from their parents. You are an accessory after the fact. People like you help make torture possible and delay prosecution. The new Hate bill will allow us to prosecute people such as yourself in a roundabout way - which I would never do because it is Unconstitutional


Do you support the use of sodomy as an 'information gathering tool'? or do you limit your depravities to waterboarding?

Please focus and stay on topic because your type of left field comments grows even more tiresome and insulting.



[edit on 3-5-2009 by Exuberant1]



posted on May, 3 2009 @ 10:07 AM
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These techniques do produce useful information that saves lives and that's why Obama will not release the memo's that Cheney talked about.

He will not release them because they can't win the debate if they don't control the flow of information.

If the CIA came to Obama and said we have one of the masterminds of 9/11 and he keeps speaking about a terror attack and we asked him in several differents ways but he just laughs and says wait and see.

At that point, according to Obama and the democrats we can't do anything.

We will just be in trouble.

At this point, the CIA operatives can't afford to live in liberal fantasy land of theory.

It's easy to live in pie in the sky lberalism from Washington D.C. or from your home. It's a different story when your faced with reality.

When KSM told the CIA "soon you will see" when they kept asking about another attack, it became an either or situation. Either they get the information or americans could die by the thousands.

The CIA didn't have the luxury to live in the fantasy land of liberalism at that point. They were facing a real situation and lives were at stake.

It's easy to act self righteous from Washington or behind a computer but when your faced with a guy who was one of the masterminds of 9-11 and your job is to protect American lives, you can't live in liberal theory.

[edit on 3-5-2009 by platosallegory]



posted on May, 3 2009 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by Exuberant1
Why do you support the use of torture?

I don't since waterboarding and other mental interrogation techniques is NOT torture. What part of that do you not understand?


Did you support the use of torture before 9/11?

See above. Applied before and after.


What do you think will happen to people such as yourself who openly support the use of torture?

As I said above, I don't support torture so your question is moot.



I believe what you are doing here is a crime. Your government sodomizes children to get information from their parents.

This must be the most ignorant post of the week.

This comment from you proves your bias and how totally ignorant and uninformed you are. Pathetic!


Please focus and stay on topic because your type of left field comments grows even more tiresome and insulting.

What are you? A parrot?

BTW, thanks for NOT answering any of my questions from my previous post. Typical!


[edit on 5/3/2009 by WhatTheory]



posted on May, 3 2009 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by 5thElement
And, no, using tasers is not torture same way water boarding isn't


Waterboarding is not torture? Then why did the U.S. try and convict Japanese soldiers for it? They were killed for it you know. So what does this mean if you say it is not torture, did we just murder Japanese soldiers?



posted on May, 3 2009 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by evil incarnate

Originally posted by 5thElement
And, no, using tasers is not torture same way water boarding isn't


Waterboarding is not torture? Then why did the U.S. try and convict Japanese soldiers for it? They were killed for it you know. So what does this mean if you say it is not torture, did we just murder Japanese soldiers?


That question cuts both ways.
If waterboarding is torture then why do U.S. soldiers have to endure it during training. If waterboarding is torture then why is that Shiek fellow still alive and perfectly healthy after 183 waterboarding sessions?

Plus, I also believe the Japanese version of waterboarding was considerably different from what the U.S. does.

[edit on 5/3/2009 by WhatTheory]



posted on May, 3 2009 @ 08:56 PM
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So the government says they stopped a terrorist attack, so it must be true. 'Cos the always tell the truth. Come on. Wake up people.



posted on May, 3 2009 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by evil incarnate

Originally posted by 5thElement
And, no, using tasers is not torture same way water boarding isn't


Waterboarding is not torture? Then why did the U.S. try and convict Japanese soldiers for it? They were killed for it you know. So what does this mean if you say it is not torture, did we just murder Japanese soldiers?


That question cuts both ways.
If waterboarding is torture then why do U.S. soldiers have to endure it during training. If waterboarding is torture then why is that Shiek fellow still alive and perfectly healthy after 183 waterboarding sessions?

Plus, I also believe the Japanese version of waterboarding was considerably different from what the U.S. does.

[edit on 5/3/2009 by WhatTheory]



LOL! WhatTheory you crack me up. Not once do you even consider your stance MIGHT be wrong. You "believe" that what the Japanese did was worse... LOL...

What a Xenophobic justification to do whatever.

I tell you what, you go live in a lawless land where you can do whatever you want to who ever you want for whatever justification your primate brain can imagine, and I'll live in America where we DON"T stoop low and act like a brute.

If you have to torture someone in order to save my life... please don't.

[edit on 3-5-2009 by HunkaHunka]



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 01:10 AM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
LOL! WhatTheory you crack me up. Not once do you even consider your stance MIGHT be wrong.

The same for me. I guess you have not even considered your stance might be wrong which of course it is. The difference is that I have come to a different conclusion from you.

I made three points on why waterboarding is NOT torture and you chose to only make a dissmissive comment on one of the points which you showed no proof to the contrary. Typical strategy when you are dealing with emotions instead of logic and facts.



If you have to torture someone in order to save my life... please don't.

Ok, but I will waterboard someone to save you since it's not torture.

BTW, thank goodness your attitude was not prevalent during the world wars because we would have lost. When enemy soldiers would try and infiltrate a U.S. position by wearing U.S. uniforms instead of their own, we would line them up against a wall and shoot them once they were captured. How on Earth do you plan on defeating your enemy? With harsh language?



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 01:12 AM
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So.. there really is no truth serium ??

wow.. and all this time ..I thought it was easy to get info just with a shot.. but.. I guess we dont' have that now..


[edit on 5-5-2009 by Komodo]



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory
How on Earth do you plan on defeating your enemy? With harsh language?



The Law has in place the appropriate means to prosecute those individuals you want to torture so hard.

Do you draw the line at waterboarding?

What about the child-rape that Sy Hersch heard? Is that torture?

Do you consider slicing open a detainee's penis 30 times to be something other than torture?


*I believe that persons such as yourself are a detriment to this Republic. For all intents and purposes; you are an enemy domestic.


[edit on 5-5-2009 by Exuberant1]



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 04:50 AM
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Originally posted by Exuberant1
What about the child-rape that Sy Hersch heard?

BS!!
Show me some proof.


Do you consider slicing open a detainee's penis 30 times to be something other than torture?

BS!!
Show me some proof.


I believe that persons such as yourself are a detriment to this Republic. For all intents and purposes; you are an enemy domestic.

Sorry, but I had to laugh.

You are the most dangerous type of person. One with his head in the sand and refuses to call a spade a spade. Sad and Pathetic!



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 05:28 AM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory

Ok, but I will waterboard someone to save you since it's not torture.



Okay....

1) Do you even consider it (waterboarding) to be a crime?

2) If someone waterboarded you - what crime(s) should that person be charged with?

*I have been quite clear with regards to my position on Torture. Please do us the courtesy of answer the above questions as they serve to clarify your position on the matter.


Thanks in advance.



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 05:37 AM
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Originally posted by Exuberant1
1) Do you even consider it (waterboarding) to be a crime?

That depends on whether you are talking about soldiers on a battlefield or a U.S. civilian on U.S. soil.
Short answer: Not a crime during battle but of course it's a crime to waterboard your neighbor in the U.S.

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?


2) If someone waterboarded you - what crime(s) should that person be charged with?

If I am in the U.S. sitting in my house and someone breaks in and waterboarded me, they should be charged with assult. This does not apply if I were in battle.


I have been quite clear with regards to my position on Torture. Please do us the courtesy of answer the above questions as they serve to clarify your position on the matter.

Yeah, but you do not answer questions and constantly ignore the points of other posters.



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by Exuberant1
What about the child-rape that Sy Hersch heard?

BS!!
Show me some proof.


Do you consider slicing open a detainee's penis 30 times to be something other than torture?


BS!!
Show me some proof.


Sure!



**Here is what Sey Hersch has said about the matter - the accompanying link has more information:

"Some of the worse that happened that you don't know about, ok. Videos, there are women there. Some of you may have read they were passing letters, communications out to their men. This is at Abu Ghraib which is 30 miles from Baghdad [...]

The women were passing messages saying "Please come and kill me, because of what's happened". Basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys/children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. The worst about all of them is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror it's going to come out.

It's impossible to say to yourself how do we get there? who are we? Who are these people that sent us there?"

Kids sodomized at Abu Ghraib, Pentagon has the videos - Sey Hersh


**From the Guardian, with regards to the individual America shipped from Guantanamo to Morocco so as to have more heinous torture inflicted upon him - In this case slicing his penis thirty times:

"They took a scalpel to my right chest. It was only a small cut. Then they cut my left chest. One of them took my penis in his hand and began to make cuts. He did it once, and they stood still for maybe a minute watching. I was in agony, crying, trying desperately to suppress myself, but I was screaming... They must have done this 20 to 30 times in maybe two hours. There was blood all over."

MI6 and CIA 'sent student to Morocco to be tortured


*Are you now going to pretend that the above examples aren't real?

Or perhaps will you try to rationalize/minimize their effect by attacking the messenger and the sources?



[edit on 5-5-2009 by Exuberant1]




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